Dual nationality

[dnoblett]

Since it is illegal to have dual citizenship in China, the result can be deadly if one gets caught having dual citizenship. China may prosecute the person for espionage or some other crimes. The result can be 10 years in prison or worst. Just follow the laws for the country you plan to visit.

 

I will have to agree with this. Very limited protection by US government if caught.

 

Another benifit of US citizenship is FULL retirement benifits.

 

Here is a list I found:

1. A Citizen Can Vote

   A citizen has the right to vote for elected officials at the federal, state and local levels who shape the policy of the government.

2. Dual Citizenship (Currently N/A with China)

   Certain countries, including Ireland and the United Kingdom, recognize "dual citizenship" permitting naturalized U.S. citizens to maintain their citizenship of birth and original passport.

3. Citizens Can Bring More Relatives From Abroad, More Quickly

   Citizens can petition for a wider variety of family members to come to the US as permanent residents. They also have much shorter waiting times for green cards, and no limits.

4. Citizens Cannot be Deported

   Most of us never expect to commit a crime, but if we are the victims of circumstance, in the wrong place at the wrong time, as citizens, we cannot be deported. We also don't need to worry about a lost green card or too-long stay outside the US preventing us from re-entering.

5. Citizens Can Retire Abroad With Full Social Security Benefits

   Citizens who retire abroad get all their Social Security benefits. Green card holders only get half of the benefits they earned.

6. Citizens are Entitled to More Public Benefits

   Citizens are eligible for more public benefits, including Supplemental Security Income (SSI) and Food Stamps, as well as certain academic scholarships and financial aid.

7. A US Citizen Can Hold Office and Have More Job Opportunities

   Only a citizen has the right to hold an elected position in most city, state or federal offices. Many federal, state and city jobs also require citizenship.

8. Adopted or Natural Children Under 18 May be Naturalized Automatically

   Depending on the circumstances, children born abroad, who are under 18 years of age and unmarried may be able to naturalize automatically when a parent does so.

9. Citizens Have More Financial and Tax Benefits

   Citizens often receive approval on loans and mortgages more easily, and/or they get better rates, because the lender knows there is less chance they will defect. Citizens are often subject to fewer restrictions on estate taxes as well.

10. Citizens Don't Have to Worry About Renewing a Green Card Every 10 Years

    We have enough to worry about with passports and other paperwork. As citizens, we don't have to worry about renewing a green cards every ten years.

 

http://immigration.about.com/od/whybecomea...0CitizenBen.htm

 

The only pain as others have said is having to renew visit visa.

[Kyle]

I wasn't surprised to see this thread since this topic is touched on in a few other active threads. I saw GDBill's post:

 

Also, why does obtaining US citizenship have to be an either-or situation? There are easily a million Chinese citizens who are defacto dual nationals. Just because you obtain US citizenship does not mean you have to give up your Chinese citizenship.

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=553226

 

and would like a little more information on this. Thanks!

Edited May 27, 2010 by Kyle (see edit history)

[JamesnYuHong]

5. Citizens Can Retire Abroad With Full Social Security Benefits

Citizens who retire abroad get all their Social Security benefits. Green card holders only get half of the benefits they earned.

 

Pretty sure this is not true. I think it is 100 percent SS benefits.

[Randy W]

5. Citizens Can Retire Abroad With Full Social Security Benefits

Citizens who retire abroad get all their Social Security benefits. Green card holders only get half of the benefits they earned.

 

Pretty sure this is not true. I think it is 100 percent SS benefits.

 

 

 

It may be 50% of the spousal benefits.

[dnoblett]

5. Citizens Can Retire Abroad With Full Social Security Benefits

Citizens who retire abroad get all their Social Security benefits. Green card holders only get half of the benefits they earned.

 

Pretty sure this is not true. I think it is 100 percent SS benefits.

 

Contact SSA and ask.

 

Anyway here is another post I cam across:

U.S. Chinese Returnees

 

Posted in journals on August 21, 2007 by Linda Ho

 

As expats in Suzhou, we have met Chinese returnees from all over the world, including the U.S. A "Chinese Returnee" is someone formerly a Chinese citizen returning to China. Upon graduation from a foreign university, some Chinese become permanent residents or citizens of the host country where they settle down and work.

 

At some point in time, they decide to return to China to work. There are two types of returnees:

1. Returnees as expats
   • They possess U.S. citizenship or

   • They possess U.S. permanent residency.

   • They pay Federal and State taxes and Chinese tax while working in China.

   • They are on the U.S. company payroll which qualifies them U.S. company benefits such as global medical, dental & vision insurance, life insurance, AD&D insurance, retirement benefits, Profit & Savings plan and U.S. social security benefits.

   • In addition, they can negotiate an expat package that will cover tax equalization, housing allowance, car allowance, education, home visits, etc.

   • They are subject to U.S. laws.

 

[*] Returnees as Chinese citizens

• They resume their "hukow" (registered resident) in China.

• They are on the China company payroll which qualifies them company benefits and China's social security benefits.

• They pay Chinese taxes only.

• They are subject to China laws.

 

 

However, here's a note of caution for returnees who are U.S. Lawful Permanent Residents working overseas (including China). According to the article, "Warning to Lawful Permanent Residents Transferred Overseas," posted on the website of Greenburg Trauring LLP,

 

MORE.. http://boscoho.com/09Joomla/us-chinese-returnees

 

Note US Citizens don't pay US tax on foreign income up to a certain amount.

[Carl]

One of the reasons Ying got US citizenship is the ability to travel to many countries without needing a visa, whereas if she reatined her Chinese citizenship she would need a visa for every one of these.

[Rob and WeiLing]

http://boscoho.com/09Joomla/us-chinese-returnees

 

That URL took me to something evangelical in China... No thanks. Based on the tags from your quote, I found the URL at: http://boscoho.com/09Joomla/index.php?opti...mp;limitstart=5

 

They must've changed the site around in the past month or so...

 

 

I began thinking that China may not receive documentation from the U.S., so that Chinese person would appear as a different person with the same name in Chinese books (A is Chinese-citizen, B is US Citizen; technically the same person). But when attempting to use the Chinese passport, wouldn't the K-visa or US immigrant visa in the Chinese passport be a dead give-away that something fishy was going on?

 

Otherwise, wouldn't it even be possible to take "unrecorded" trips by flying to China on a visitor visa, and then from China to wherever else using the Chinese passport? ...Not that this would help with being allowed to live in China.

[credzba]

But when attempting to use the Chinese passport, wouldn't the K-visa or US immigrant visa in the Chinese passport be a dead give-away that something fishy was going on?

 

Otherwise, wouldn't it even be possible to take "unrecorded" trips by flying to China on a visitor visa, and then from China to wherever else using the Chinese passport? ...Not that this would help with being allowed to live in China.

 

 

 

My wife has immigrant visa stamp in her passport, and greencard, but she still is and intends to stay a China citizen, so I don't think that would be a problem.

 

How I have read people do this is:

1) Get US citizenship, and keep china passport.

2) If traveling to anywhere except China, use US passport.

3) If travelling to China, use US passport to Hong Kong, then China passport into China and back out, the return to USA on US passport.

 

Never EVER let anyone see you have 2 passports!

 

Also, with China/Taiwan opening up, that will soon be a better way. Taiwan recognizes dual citizenship, and will happily stamp both passports for you on entry/exit.

[JamesnYuHong]

But when attempting to use the Chinese passport, wouldn't the K-visa or US immigrant visa in the Chinese passport be a dead give-away that something fishy was going on?

 

Otherwise, wouldn't it even be possible to take "unrecorded" trips by flying to China on a visitor visa, and then from China to wherever else using the Chinese passport? ...Not that this would help with being allowed to live in China.

 

 

 

My wife has immigrant visa stamp in her passport, and greencard, but she still is and intends to stay a China citizen, so I don't think that would be a problem.

 

How I have read people do this is:

1) Get US citizenship, and keep china passport.

2) If traveling to anywhere except China, use US passport.

3) If travelling to China, use US passport to Hong Kong, then China passport into China and back out, the return to USA on US passport.

 

Never EVER let anyone see you have 2 passports!

 

Also, with China/Taiwan opening up, that will soon be a better way. Taiwan recognizes dual citizenship, and will happily stamp both passports for you on entry/exit.

 

 

Really, it will stamp them both?

 

Why do you say it will "soon" be a better way? What is the obstacle now? Mainlanders have a hard time entering? Just curious.

[Rob and WeiLing]

My wife has immigrant visa stamp in her passport, and greencard, but she still is and intends to stay a China citizen, so I don't think that would be a problem.

 

How I have read people do this is:

1) Get US citizenship, and keep china passport.

2) If traveling to anywhere except China, use US passport.

3) If travelling to China, use US passport to Hong Kong, then China passport into China and back out, the return to USA on US passport.

 

Never EVER let anyone see you have 2 passports!

 

Also, with China/Taiwan opening up, that will soon be a better way. Taiwan recognizes dual citizenship, and will happily stamp both passports for you on entry/exit.

 

 

But if your wife uses the passport and GC to return to China, it would also have a Chinese re-entry stamp. In the situation I'm talking about, the Chinese passport would have a stamp for when it exited China to the US, but nothing showing that it entered China again. It wouldn't look odd to try and exit China for a second time in a row? Of course, there is a great possibility that the exit officer wouldn't notice, but it's a risk I would never take.

 

Now, I'm also thinking that when boarding the plane in the states, a Chinese-turned-US citizen could show the US passport with Chinese visa. When arriving in China, show the Chinese passport. But the problem here would be returning to the US. How would one be returning from China without having an entry stamp in the US passport? (Of course, since the GC was taken away when citizenship was granted, the Chinese passport wouldn't be usable.) I can see this giving a red-flag at either Chinese exit or US entry...

 

As far as HK, it's been discussed earlier. Mainland Chinese require an explicit permit to cross into HK. I think it'd be caught right away that a Chinese citizen is trying to return to mainland from HK without this. And then the problem with exiting China would be that the dual citizen would require a permit to even cross to Hong Kong--one that is usually time-limited like a visa and difficult to obtain. As dnoblett said, if trying to cross back to Hong Kong using the US passport the exit officer would notice no entry stamp.

 

I haven't seen anything about Taiwan opening up, do you have links handy? I'm not saying it isn't the case, but are you sure they would honor dual US/China citizens (as opposed to US/Taiwan)? I think it's gotta be common knowledge among entry/exit officials that China does not recognize this. And if not, do all legal-dual-citizens need both passports stamped?

[dnoblett]

Sometimes this discussion of "Dual-Citizen" rubs me the wrong way.

 

If you want to be come a US Citizen then become a US Citizen if you don't, then remain an LPR.

 

Keep in mind technically the USA does NOT recognized dual citizenship either, but looks the other way. The naturalized citizen does take an oath to renounce prior citizenship.

 

Everything you may ever want to know about this: http://www.richw.org/dualcit/faq.html

[JamesnYuHong]

Sometimes this discussion of "Dual-Citizen" rubs me the wrong way.

 

If you want to be come a US Citizen then become a US Citizen if you don't, then remain an LPR.

 

Keep in mind technically the USA does NOT recognized dual citizenship either, but looks the other way. The naturalized citizen does take an oath to renounce prior citizenship.

 

Everything you may ever want to know about this: http://www.richw.org/dualcit/faq.html

 

 

Because some people want the ability to move freely between two countries for work business, family or personal reasons. They want to be able to live three years in the U.S., two in China, five in the U.S., one in China, and so on. And no matter where they are, they always want to keep open the option of moving back to the other country permanently.

 

Current regulations on both sides make this either extremely messy or downright impossible for people originating from mainland China, no matter which citizenship they choose. The only semi-exception is a Chinese person who has naturalized as a U.S. citizen and then works in China with a Z-visa. But it's still a far cry from dual citizenship. Hopefully, China will one day legalize dual citizenship. Until then, people will try to obtain it covertly.

[Kyle]

Hopefully, China will one day legalize dual citizenship. Until then, people will try to obtain it covertly.

And take on certain risks in doing so.

[Jocelyn]

 

.... (For one thing, once the green card is gone for good, the U.S. would probably not grant her a visitor visa to go see Roger's family.)

 

 

Does anyone have confirmation that this is true?

[david_dawei]

she will be fine in China for two years with a reentry permit, but then what? She can apply for a new re-entry permit. Then what? And after that, then what?

 

They are retired and there is not an end-date to their stay in China, but she would like to have the door open to the U.S. just in case. (For one thing, once the green card is gone for good, the U.S. would probably not grant her a visitor visa to go see Roger's family.)

A friend was told that by customs directly that she could get 2 re-entry permits in a row but after that they are likely to take her greencard away. In this situation the USC husband is working in china so it is a legit reason to be there... but the US government only cares that a GC implies you plan to live in the US. If that appears to not be your plan, they have some plans for you.

 

As to the "probably not grant her a visitor visa" I would assume this rational rather than some policy. We all know it is quite difficult for anyone in china to get a visitor's visa and spouses of a USC appear as difficult. So it stands to reason acquiring a visitor visa would be difficult if they have taken your greencard away. But certainly an interesting issue and maybe someone can share or dig up something on this.