U.S. or China

[JamesnYuHong]

Here are the pros and cons to living in China, as I see it. I hope others will contribute their thoughts.

 

Pros

 

1.) China is lively in a way that America has not been for many decades. You can actually walk down a Chinese street and see -- gasp -- people.

 

2.) Cost of living can be quite low compared to the United States. Especially good if you have a steady source of income from the U.S., such as a pension or Social Security.

 

3.) Jobs are readily available for Americans, if you are interested in teaching English.

 

4.) Your spouse will be in her/his home environment and you can enjoy the benefits of the close family ties that Chinese people tend to have. (Especially useful if you happen to have a young child.)

 

5.) Can be an appealing place for someone who enjoys the international life, learning new languages, being noticed for being different.

 

Cons

 

1.) Cost of living is not so low if you plan to buy a home.

 

2.) With the "liveliness" of China comes a loss of the private, "live and let live" type of life you can expect in the west. Everyone is into everyone else's business. And life is a complicated, sometimes tiresome web of who's looking down on whom, who has more money than whom, who's gaining face, who's losing face, who has "guanxi," who's high-class and who's low-class.

 

3.) Friendship is also a bit different. Hanging out with buddies on equal terms is less common. Friends need to be useful, and if someone befriends you, you can bet they are looking for ways in which you can be useful. If they find that you aren't, you may find that they stop coming around.

 

4.) Teaching English does not pay all that well. It is possible to make a decent income, but you may need to work hard building up a base of private students or get an additional degree in order to qualify for the top-flight jobs.

 

5.) Health care is an issue. Better have some cash savings just in case. Don't count on any hospital saying, "Let's save this guy's life first, we'll sort out payment issues later!" You may be able to buy insurance on the private market, but in an emergency, it may not do you much good.

 

6.) No one is going to set up a 401k for you in China, let alone give you matching funds, so you have to be very mindful of saving for your own retirement.

 

7.) By the way, while in China, you are most likely not paying into U.S. Social Security. Years you don't pay in bring down your overall average earnings, thus lowering your eventual check. (You can, however, pay in from China if you work for an American company or are self-employed.)

 

8.) China still does not "welcome" foreign spouses from a visa perspective. You cannot expect any permanency unless you get one of the relatively rare "green cards." Otherwise, you are on a year-to-year basis, always with the possibility that you will be kicked out of the country due to policy changes or whatever other reason. You will also never be eligible for any of China's social welfare programs, such as pensions. Not that China is rich in social welfare, but just sayin'.

 

9.) You will never, ever fit into Chinese society. It doesn't matter how long you stay, how well you speak Chinese, how successful you become. You will always be an outsider and be thought of as kind of cartoonish. Your opinions and ways of doing things will never be considered up to par, since they aren't Chinese.

(Think about how this contrasts with the United States, where foreigners can stay permanently, get the same jobs as Americans, enjoy the same rights, get the same benefits at work and from the government.)

 

10.) China's pollution may be harmful to your health, as may be the traffic.

Edited April 25, 2010 by JamesnYuHong (see edit history)

[steveandrong]

We have talked about this, but not as in a permament move...would be more like spending the winters in China, as a winter Texan does...my primary occupation (farming) would allow for this after my retirement from my factory job...would like to live in China after fall work is complete and then come back to USA when is time for spring planting.

[chengdu4me]

Here are the pros and cons to living in China, as I see it. I hope others will contribute their thoughts.

 

Pros

 

1.) China is lively in a way that America has not been for many decades. You can actually walk down a Chinese street and see -- gasp -- people. Yea..sometimes too damn many of them!

 

2.) Cost of living can be quite low compared to the United States. Especially good if you have a steady source of income from the U.S., such as a pension or Social Security. That will change as the RMB rises

3.) Jobs are readily available for Americans, if you are interested in teaching English. There are other things you can do, but teaching seems to be the easiest

4.) Your spouse will be in her/his home environment and you can enjoy the benefits of the close family ties that Chinese people tend to have. (Especially useful if you happen to have a young child.)

 

5.) Can be an appealing place for someone who enjoys the international life, learning new languages, being noticed for being different.

 

Cons

 

1.) Cost of living is not so low if you plan to buy a home. Boy! That is the truth!

 

2.) With the "liveliness" of China comes a loss of the private, "live and let live" type of life you can expect in the west. Everyone is into everyone else's business. And life is a complicated, sometimes tiresome web of who's looking down on whom, who has more money than whom, who's gaining face, who's losing face, who has "guanxi," who's high-class and who's low-class. That only matter if you are paying close attention. No one is in my business because they can't talk to me to find out what my "business" is! HAHA

 

3.) Friendship is also a bit different. Hanging out with buddies on equal terms is less common. Friends need to be useful, and if someone befriends you, you can bet they are looking for ways in which you can be useful. If they find that you aren't, you may find that they stop coming around. Yes, this is very true. Everyone excepts something from every type of relationship

4.) Teaching English does not pay all that well. It is possible to make a decent income, but you may need to work hard building up a base of private students or get an additional degree in order to qualify for the top-flight jobs. Not true. Depending on how you do it, you can make a very good living teaching English. First, you must know the school. Second, you must care about the school. Third, you must work for a school that is run by ethical people. Yes, they are rare, but they are out there. Next year, my salary gets doubled. Why? Because I am willing to do what is necessary to double it and the school knows it is in their best interest to keep me happy

 

5.) Health care is an issue. Better have some cash savings just in case. Don't count on any hospital saying, "Let's save this guy's life first, we'll sort out payment issues later!" You may be able to buy insurance on the private market, but in an emergency, it may not do you much good. Yea...that can be a problem. Cash is the only way you get treated. No insurance policy will pay upfront.

6.) No one is going to set up a 401k for you in China, let alone give you matching funds, so you have to be very mindful of saving for your own retirement. Yes, this is a DIY society!

 

7.) By the way, while in China, you are most likely not paying into U.S. Social Security. Years you don't pay in bring down your overall average earnings, thus lowering your eventual check. (You can, however, pay in from China if you work for an American company or are self-employed.) From my calculation, the last five years I would have been paying into SS if I had stayed in the states would have increased my benefits less than $25 a month at the age of 62. That is not a good reason to stay longer.

 

8.) China still does not "welcome" foreign spouses from a visa perspective. You cannot expect any permanency unless you get one of the relatively rare "green cards." Otherwise, you are on a year-to-year basis, always with the possibility that you will be kicked out of the country due to policy changes or whatever other reason. You will also never be eligible for any of China's social welfare programs, such as pensions. Not that China is rich in social welfare, but just sayin'. Yea...this is the scariest part. Life and investment in China and then given 24 hours to get out. Bye-bye life, bye-bye investments, bye-bye financial security.

 

9.) You will never, ever fit into Chinese society. It doesn't matter how long you stay, how well you speak Chinese, how successful you become. You will always be an outsider and be thought of as kind of cartoonish. Your opinions and ways of doing things will never be considered up to par, since they aren't Chinese.

(Think about how this contrasts with the United States, where foreigners can stay permanently, get the same jobs as Americans, enjoy the same rights, get the same benefits at work and from the government.) HAHA...Not being treated like a Chinese by Chinese as far as I am concerned belongs in the benefit column. I have been all over the world and I have never seen people cut each others throat like they do here.

 

10.) China's pollution may be harmful to your health, as may be the traffic. No one gets out of life alive.

[tsap seui]

I certainly can't speak as an ex-pat on China, but I have visited and spent over 6 months in China, as well as having bought, outright, a nice home there...

 

I do NOT profess to know much of nothing about China but all I had to do was very casually open my eyes and look at prices whenever we went shopping or paid our electric bill, water bill, TV bill, computer bill or even bought a simple (small) Dove choclate bar for 8rmb. All one needs to do is let your erection down a few minutes and just look at what you pay when you visit China.

 

I do NOT see ANYTHING as being cheap in China...food, clothes, public water, electricity, housing, eating out, consumer goods...NOTHING!!! And we, I say we because I may be moving to China if the DOS thugs deny my wife's visa later this year, live in a small rustbelt city up in NE China. A city where we paid 2,935rmb per m2 for our new home. What do they pay in other Chinese citys?

 

Oh yeah, I've got the exchange rate thing going on when I visit, and if I lived there I'd have around $4,500 Uncle Sam supplied taxfree US dollars to exchange monthly if I didn't want to supplement my income by teaching english, or just to keep busy...but I see NOTHING cheap in China.

 

Tell the average Chinese person with an rmb income that things are cheap in China...and run for your life if you told that silly statement to your wife. I never needed to run from lil' rabbit over something like that as I am always asking (when I look at prices)..."How do Chinese people afford to live in China?"

 

The rest of your poll, James...I can't comment on as I am dumber than Tom Kunts dawg about China, but I do have a damned good tour guide and "nanny" when I am there.

 

tsap seui

 

Heck, China is even more expensive than Australia and New Zealand put together...and I had thought they were expensive.

[Kwyjibo]

Here are the pros and cons to living in China, as I see it. I hope others will contribute their thoughts.

 

Pros

4.) Your spouse will be in her/his home environment and you can enjoy the benefits of the close family ties that Chinese people tend to have. (Especially useful if you happen to have a young child.)

Depending on your in-laws this might be a con.

[bullmastiff]

I have to agree somehow with Tsap Tseui . China is not cheap . Again, you need to compare price vs. quality . For the same quality of living, DEFINITELY the United States is cheaper . If you want to live like an ordinary Chinese, eg. use Chinese toilets and eat Instant Noodles , of course, it is cheaper living in China.

 

For clothing, shoes, etc.... , the same brands here in the US are DEFINITELY cheaper than in China. Plus , more selections.

 

Being all said , their standard of living and quality of living do go up , though , not go down. 5 years ago , it was difficult to find brand names middle to upper middle class , now , they are everywhere. Prices are still more expensive than in the US , however, and selections are more limited.

 

All in all, they are getting better and better every year ..... So, we Americans shall not be complacent and ignorant . The spirit of free enterprise and innovation must continue to be promoted or else we will not be that blessed and enviable place in the world someday.

[chilton747]

5 years ago , it was difficult to find brand names middle to upper middle class , now , they are everywhere.

 

 

Is that the real brand names or the fake real brand names?

[PhoenixRising]

Home is what you make of it be it in the US, China or England. China is nice for visting areas where you may only visited in history books. Remember the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence until you get there.

[Reddragon75]

The way things have been going for us so so far......it looks as though living in China may be my only option.

[I-Luv-America]

Already living in China for two years now. The pros I had after first moving here are different today than after first arriving. Now, it feels like home. For me, life has improved in many ways. However, some of the things I miss most are:

 

1: The security of what was once the best healthcare in the world

2. Emergency services

3. Reliable medication

4. Simple conversation

5. Open honesty. China requires a certain level of mind-reading

 

My pros:

 

1. Personal and family safety (low crime)

2. The options to save money and create your own business are superior

3. Travel is inexpensive to just about anywhere in China and neighboring countries

4. A nearly non-existent fat population

 

 

To JamesnYuHong: Where or what did you use to develop that long list of cons? Especially 1, 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9?

Edited May 6, 2010 by I-Luv-America (see edit history)

[Mick]

I lived in China with my spouse for five-plus years and really flourished there. I enjoyed my life over there for many of the reasons already mentioned. I can't say there were no difficulties, there certainly were. My main issue was being relatively strapped language wise. I speak some Chinese but am far from fluent. My other concern was health care. I have a significant cardiac problem and things can get kind of iffy over there in that regard.

 

Still, all in all, I would move there again if I had it to do over again. I loved being with my lady and experiencing her culture for an extended period of time was very helpful.

[JamesnYuHong]

Already living in China for two years now. The pros I had after first moving here are different today than after first arriving. Now, it feels like home. For me, life has improved in many ways. However, some of the things I miss most are:

 

1: The security of what was once the best healthcare in the world

2. Emergency services

3. Reliable medication

4. Simple conversation

5. Open honesty. China requires a certain level of mind-reading

 

My pros:

 

1. Personal and family safety (low crime)

2. The options to save money and create your own business are superior

3. Travel is inexpensive to just about anywhere in China and neighboring countries

4. A nearly non-existent fat population

 

 

To JamesnYuHong: Where or what did you use to develop that long list of cons? Especially 1, 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9?

 

 

Hmm ... I just wrote it from knowledge I've picked up over the years, research I've done, impressions I've developed. They are generalities, and there are plenty exceptions. For example, I think Shanghai has some program that theoretically lets foreigners pay into a city retirement plan. And some people do get permanent residency. But as an overarching principle, I think if you are headed to China, it's best to get into the mindset of "I'm on my own."

[Kyle]

This poll lacks the option of

 

"We already lived in China but moved back to the States"

 

I can see a lot of truths in this thread (pros and cons) but one thing is for certain, a lot of these points are found here in the States as well. 关系，is alive and well in America. Most people tend to first look out for their own interests - using people to help achieve their goals. Sure, we may call it by a different name in America, but we practice it nonetheless.

 

For every point that I could validate by my own experiences, I could also note examples in China that went the other way. Whatever you look for either good or bad, you'll end up finding.

 

The key in living abroad is making sure you keep an open mind and realize that any culture has both positives and negatives. Also, be certain not to set unreasonable standards of how you should be treated (which is usually based on your experiences from your home country). Most likely, the things you hate about your host country are not directed at your citizenship, but are usually done across the board - to other Chinese citizens themselves. For example, I've seen a lot of posts on this site referencing being cheated while in China. Yeah, it happens, but do you honestly think it doesn't happen to Chinese folks as well? Sure it does. I'm thinking specifically of my in-laws who were almost swindled out of their apartment.

 

If you're planning on living in China read "The Ugly American" by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer on the plane. There is a Chinese counterpart to this book "The Ugly Chinese" but I have yet to read it.

 

If you have a flexible personality, then go for it - try living abroad. If you're stuck in your ways, save yourself the pain, and stay where you are.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Kyle (see edit history)

[TLB]

 

If you have a flexible personality, then go for it - try living abroad. If you're stuck in your ways, save yourself the pain, and stay where you are.

 

I think that's some of the best advice I've seen on this board, and goes for anywhere -- not just China.

[JamesnYuHong]

Issues of having a flexible personality, realizing that each culture has its positives and negatives, etc. are relevant to about six of the items on my "cons" list. The rest -- specifically, Nos. 5, 6, 7 and 8 -- relate to China's government policy and social infrastructure.

 

Having a heart attack and being allowed to die in the waiting room because you don't have the cash in your pocket to pay for treatment at that specific moment is not about having an open mind. Being forced to pack up and leave your family behind one day because China has not seen fit to provide foreign spouses something more stable than one-year visas to protect them from bureaucratic whim is not about being stuck in your ways.

 

China leaves a lot to be desired if stability is important to you. The powers-that-be in Beijing have decided that outsiders should have only a tentative existence in the Middle Kingdom. I guess they don't want foreigners gaining any political foothold and making trouble.

Edited May 11, 2010 by JamesnYuHong (see edit history)