I-131...The Re-entry Permit

[Cerberus]

To all,

 

I have a particular problem and that is in regard to Application for a Re-entry Permit, Form I-131. I have made a link for the instructions only as reference, in order to prevent members assisting don¡¯t have search around for it.

 

DNoblett, Carl, and finally Donahso: I wasn¡¯t sure exactly where in the name of Hell to put this issue. Therefore, I placed it in two sub forums, (¡°General Visa Discussion and First Steps,¡± and ¡°Citizen Process¡±). I would appreciate it if you would delete one of them, and keeping one in the appropriate sub forum. I will bend to your wisdom in this matter, and won¡¯t accuse any one of you of being part of the ¡°Good Ole Boys Club¡± with the suggested deletion by the author; myself!

 

http://www.visapro.com/Download/INS-Travel...nstructions.pdf

 

I apologize that I¡¯m unable to cut and paste the documents, since it is a PDF file.

 

The situation is in regard to my own wife. She is currently in China on a teaching assignment with a Chinese school. The I-131 is required to be filed while applicant is still in the US. There was no time for this. Therefore, she stayed in China and will be returning prior to 6-month time line expires.

 

There is talk about a promotion for her within the school district, higher paycheck, etc, etc. Unfortunately, they wish her to remain for a year and what are her future plans are. BTW, my wife and I will be making exchange trips in either way, to continents of our choice.

 

The directions are fairly self-explanatory, and I should explain that she doesn¡¯t fall under Refugee status, or Advanced parole. She came to the US via K3 visa, and has received her permanent Green Card, and is moving towards US Naturalization as an end goal for the both of us. She has the minimum wait time of three years prior to initial application for naturalization. This time clock began the day she received her permanent Green Card. Suffice to say, that we don¡¯t want her time clock to begin all over again by being out of country 6-months or more.

 

This time we will have time to do the Reentry Permit, the associated biometrics, photos, $301.00 fee, etc that accompany unfortunately seem to tied in to most USCIS processes.

 

She definitely falls under Para. 1 Re-entry Permit, subparagraphs A. ¡°If you are in the United States¡­¡±, and subparagraph B ¡°Validity of Re-entry Permit.¡±

 

Question 1 and regard to subpara B: They mention validity of the permit. ¡°Does this mean that once the Re-entry Permit is issued, it is good for two-years from date of issuance? Or am I reading this wrong?¡±

 

Here is a bit of background of what has been related to me by my wife. Some "Mainland" Chinese women/men believe that this means, you can stay out of country for two years, and later relayed to my wife. I don¡¯t read this at all, and believe that it is somewhat akin to the validity dates that are given for K1 and K3 visas. However both of us are confused and seek clarification.

 

Question 2 and not covered elsewhere in directions: ¡°Does the Re-Entry Permit, even if approved by USCIS, does this stop the time-clock towards naturalization?¡± If the reader goes between the lines in the directions, it would seem that once it is approved by USCIS; USCIS knows exactly where the immigrant is and has approved of the travel outside the US, and the immigrant hasn¡¯t abandoned and efforts to become a naturalized citizen. However, this is not specifically stated anywhere. I searched/checked with several immigrant forums, and Yes! CFL first, and I got only three returns and they discussed Advanced Parole issues which have not impact on my family. Very little seems to be written on this particular subject wherever I checked.

 

Question 3: Seems that little is known about this particular area. I wanted to ¡°ping¡± CFL members prior to taking any other steps. ¡°Is a visit to San Diego¡¯s Local USCIS office recommended? If Info-Pass appointment is recommended, what documents do you suggest, and what tenure should the questions/answers be geared towards?¡± I know that this question seems very Machiavellian, and I don¡¯t want to put anyone¡¯s rear parts in a vise. This is my problem. However, I have lived by several credos, and one of them is when you are standing in a pen with bulls; Don¡¯t hold and wave a red-colored sign up, which states;

 

 

 

 

Come and Gore me...

With the horn of your Choice!

I DARE YOU!

 

 

 

The last thing I want to do is piss off USCIS, ruin a very good career opportunity for my wife, and the chance of gaining a lot of good experience, and training that the company pays for. As a side point, come to California and teach, and/or even get a position! Good Luck! You will need it!

 

Question 4: ¡°Is there anything else that I have missed and/or specific comments on this subject? With these economic times, I feel pretty much assured that this issue will raise its ugly head again with our Chinese wives/husbands, fianc¨¦es; if is already hasn¡¯t done so already, or other members are already being hit with these questions today.

 

For inquiring minds of CFL, my wife and I are playing ¡°geographical bachelor/woman.¡± In a few days I will be adding another segment to the thread ¡°Significant Differences¡± thread regard to this aspect: http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=35753. Very few people knew that we are living in separate households, live/operate as an Oriental couple, still very much in love and not contemplating divorce in the least, and she is returning to California finally, in seven days, and both of us meant to keep it that way and keep tongues from "wagging" and speculation. Man! Does my wife ¡°cover¡± our 6 o¡¯clock/butts!

 

Regard to this subject, I¡¯m still surprised at time the phone calls that I still get from members that have read this thread, and not all the phone calls originate from CFL members. WOW! 5,165 of this thread views as of today, and I still get random telephone calls to clarify some points. In sincerity: I¡¯m still surprised at these numbers, the telephone calls, and feel very humbled at what I originally started with this thread. I¡¯m simply happy that I made it and it helped out some members, and they found some of the answers, that at times....I¡¯m still seeking today. I assure you that I don't have them! However, I digress. I just wanted to say thanks to all. Damned hard to follow the original act though! LOL

 

To all members that have had patience with me: Yin¡¯s and my most sincere thanks to all members in advance. We also wish all of you the most sincere wishes for continued good health in your families, the greatest of fortunes to your family, and a successful future to all of you.

 

Dave

 

{edit} corrected a typo.

Edited March 19, 2010 by dnoblett (see edit history)

[dnoblett]

1) The permit will allow a stay out of the USA for up to Two years.

 

2) NO the citizenship clock resets at 6 months even with Travel Doc.

There are ways to preserve residency time, Described here: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/men...000082ca60aRCRD

 

Working at a school abroad does not qualify for preserving residency per N-470

 

3) Possibly but you can get answers on USCIS.GOV

 

4) I-131 usually needs a good reason for staying abroad longer that 1 year.

 

Yes you need to be in the USA when filing the I-131, but can leave the USA after it is filed and the doc can be sent to the consulate (Beijing or Guangzhou) If a biometric is needed it has to be done before leaving the USA.

 

Another option is a returning resident visa (SB1), applied for at the consulate, but again a good reason for staying out of the USA may be required, green-cards are for permanent residence in the USA, they are not a convenient "Permanent Visa".

 

http://guangzhou.usembassy-china.org.cn/iv_faqs.htm#34

http://guangzhou.usembassy-china.org.cn/sb..._residents.htmm

[Guest Pommey]

Just a quick reply in regard to citizenship, the clock is based on time in the USA.

[dnoblett]

Just a quick reply in regard to citizenship, the clock is based on time in the USA.

Correct, however a period out of the USA longer than 6 months resets the clock, and the I-131 does not prevent the reset.

 

Only filing N-470 stops the reset, however N-470 can only be filed when the reason for being out of the USA has to do with working for an American Institution of Research.

[Cerberus]

1) The permit will allow a stay out of the USA for up to Two years.

 

2) NO the citizenship clock resets at 6 months even with Travel Doc.

There are ways to preserve residency time, Described here: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/men...000082ca60aRCRD

 

Working at a school abroad does not qualify for preserving residency per N-470

 

3) Possibly but you can get answers on USCIS.GOV

 

4) I-131 usually needs a good reason for staying abroad longer that 1 year.

 

Yes you need to be in the USA when filing the I-131, but can leave the USA after it is filed and the doc can be sent to the consulate (Beijing or Guangzhou) If a biometric is needed it has to be done before leaving the USA.

 

Another option is a returning resident visa (SB1), applied for at the consulate, but again a good reason for staying out of the USA may be required, green-cards are for permanent residence in the USA, they are not a convenient "Permanent Visa".

 

http://guangzhou.usembassy-china.org.cn/iv_faqs.htm#34

http://guangzhou.usembassy-china.org.cn/sb..._residents.htmm

Dammit Dan,

 

 

 

You were supposed to make me feel good! Not throw a bucket of water on my parade!

 

Now! That my frustrations are expended¡­.

 

My thanks Dan for the information and the honesty that you gave, and the links you provided. In all sincerity; I suspected as much already, but merely wanted to cover all the bases. I already had a contingency/fall back plan formulated in my mind, that we used to use in Korea among ex-pats, already set aside, in the case that your information which was received, was for the worse.

 

It seems that the only choices I have left are;

 

 

Have her return to every six months or less. Since I¡¯m not the proverbial ¡°money-tree,¡± and she needs to set her feet of USA soil every 6-months or less, I was planning and Yin alighting on US soil, getting her passport stamped for 72 hours, and then returning to China.

 

 

As a side note for people that are reading or attempting to try this; the passport control system after 9/11 is extensive and is hardwired into everyone from your local Sheriff¡¯s office, FBI, NCIC, USCIS, etc, etc, etc. And yes! This even includes me crossing from San Diego into Tijuana (25 minutes from my home), and I was just shopping for a custom tailored leather jacket.

 

The passports are scanned and the information is automatically entered into a computer database, which ¡°can¡± be readily accessed by many, many agencies, with only a request. This is not a system that you want to play with!

 

However, I digress.

 

The only way that is left to me, and cutting the airline flight times and this can be done though three separate areas within easy reach if China. The plane fares are another issue in themselves:

 

1) America Samoa (US Territory)

 

2) Guam (God forbid! I have been here and it sucks, unless you are from Guam).

 

3) Hawaii! (BTW, I suspect my wife will enjoy this immensely, and I would regret it, and still pay the trip in the end for a teaching job. Ergo, she should just simply ask for a ¡°sabbatical: from the school for 2 weeks, etc, and return to the US. No Muss! No fuss! And everything above board! Right?).

 

No matter what we decide! Our fate is sealed courtesy of USCIS, and that is THAT! BTW as a side note, my wife just called two minutes ago, and I got to "rain" on her parade, as you did to me Dan. Thanks a lot! There may be a voodoo doll in both of our futures, and there is definitely a unhappy Chinese "camper" too.

 

 

 

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! The gentle life of a Westerner living of being married to¡­a Chinese woman that has 5,000 years of culture.

 

 

Wait a minute! I don¡¯t remember voodoo dolls being in Chinese culture!?! Quick Dan! Raise your life Insurance rates up. As soon as I post this I¡¯m going for 1.5 million. I never won the Lottery, but by God! Maybe I can right now!

 

Thanks Dan! Do you think an Info-Pass appointment would even be the least bit useful? Not doubting you or your information. I simply don¡¯t want to waste vacation time!

 

My thanks to you

 

Dave

[shenzhen]

1) The permit will allow a stay out of the USA for up to Two years.

 

2) NO the citizenship clock resets at 6 months even with Travel Doc.

There are ways to preserve residency time, Described here: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/men...000082ca60aRCRD

 

Working at a school abroad does not qualify for preserving residency per N-470

 

3) Possibly but you can get answers on USCIS.GOV

 

4) I-131 usually needs a good reason for staying abroad longer that 1 year.

Yes you need to be in the USA when filing the I-131, but can leave the USA after it is filed and the doc can be sent to the consulate (Beijing or Guangzhou) If a biometric is needed it has to be done before leaving the USA.

 

Another option is a returning resident visa (SB1), applied for at the consulate, but again a good reason for staying out of the USA may be required, green-cards are for permanent residence in the USA, they are not a convenient "Permanent Visa".

http://guangzhou.usembassy-china.org.cn/iv_faqs.htm#34

http://guangzhou.usembassy-china.org.cn/sb..._residents.htmm

I am confused. Can you stay abroad for one or two years with the I-131?

 

It is true that GC is not a Permanent Visa but we, those that are married to a non-USC and live outside the country, have no real option to visit the USA, see family, and spend money in the USA.

[Randy W]

I am confused. Can you stay abroad for one or two years with the I-131?

 

It is true that GC is not a Permanent Visa but we, those that are married to a non-USC and live outside the country, have no real option to visit the USA, see family, and spend money in the USA.

 

 

The re-entry permit is a re-entry permit, not a license to live abroad. It may be declined at the POE if it is found that your US residency has been abandoned. If you have been gone for more than SIX MONTHS, BE PREPARED with documentation that shows the status of your US domicile. Frequent stays of LESS than six months, with a series of SHORT US visits may catch some attention also.

 

Since your wife is living and working in China, you need to be prepared. THAT IN ITSELF puts her at risk of being found in abandonment of her US residency, regardless of any border-hopping dances you might have her perform.

 

Since we don't have a US footprint anymore, we consider Jiaying's green card all but abandoned. It's only a matter of time before the USCIS catches up to that. If I go back to the US, it would most likely be by myself, and for a VERY short visit (the plane fare would be paid for by the university, so I might just do this next year).

Edited March 18, 2010 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Cerberus]

1) The permit will allow a stay out of the USA for up to Two years.

 

2) NO the citizenship clock resets at 6 months even with Travel Doc.

There are ways to preserve residency time, Described here: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/men...000082ca60aRCRD

 

Working at a school abroad does not qualify for preserving residency per N-470

 

3) Possibly but you can get answers on USCIS.GOV

 

4) I-131 usually needs a good reason for staying abroad longer that 1 year.

Yes you need to be in the USA when filing the I-131, but can leave the USA after it is filed and the doc can be sent to the consulate (Beijing or Guangzhou) If a biometric is needed it has to be done before leaving the USA.

 

Another option is a returning resident visa (SB1), applied for at the consulate, but again a good reason for staying out of the USA may be required, green-cards are for permanent residence in the USA, they are not a convenient "Permanent Visa".

http://guangzhou.usembassy-china.org.cn/iv_faqs.htm#34

http://guangzhou.usembassy-china.org.cn/sb..._residents.htmm

I am confused. Can you stay abroad for one or two years with the I-131?

 

It is true that GC is not a Permanent Visa but we, those that are married to a non-USC and live outside the country, have no real option to visit the USA, see family, and spend money in the USA.

 

Yes! You can stay abroad for this time. HOWEVER, ..........What Dan was saying was this:

 

The time clock that I spoke of towards naturalization in my OP goes back to zero.

 

In short; the date that your SO first got her Green Card (AOS) , is for example 07/2004 and she departs for say two years in 07/2005, for a special job in China, and has applied for a I-131, and is approved after your fees, photos, biometrics, etc, etc. Your/Her originally spent time in the US towards the naturalization process time is done. The original time that she spent in the US is gone and down the proverbial toilet! Whether or not, the I-131 granted with complete foreknowledge of USCIS. The clock starts over, and this naturalization clock which requires her to remain in the US for a continuous period of three years (minimum required time to apply for naturalization). Any break in this time, and you start all over again from zero day. Both of us will have some seriously unhappy Chinese campers on our hands! I know that I will!

 

However, its seems that your situation is different than mine and starts a topic all by itself. I'm speaking of US to China! Not the other way around China to the US! Your circumstances are probably far different than mine, and I wouldn't venture into these grounds no matter what! I'm sure that other Ex-pats in China will chime in and give you far better advice than I ever could guess at. Interesting question for your family; is it not?

 

Ergo, my following comment to the OP, that states that my wife needs to be on US soil, and have her passport stamped, and scanned, and comes under US controlled territory, not more than every six-months or less. Otherwise, you are playing with fire, and a Hell of a lot of questions for the both of you.

 

Right now in these political/economic times between China and the US; this is the last place that you want to go playing around in. And to add to this is the computer scanning systems for passports. USCIS can punch up her and my wife's travel habits/itineraries so fast it will make our heads swim! Post 9/11 the USCIS is hardwired into this network, and I have references to people in CFL that have this access! The last thing you want to do is to go playing around with USCIS! My ow wife knows this and knows that for any lame ass excuse, she would be considered simply as a "Chink" (her words and not mine), and be deported. Even if I fought it how much money would I spend in attorney fees. The original OP idea came from her to me, to "ping" CFL, extract answers. I formed her questions into something that the CFL forum could understand and finally what CFL , and we have learned today, courtesy of a Chinese woman. I now have my answers, whether good or bad, and my responses were 1 thru 3 in the previous post. There is no way around this, as much as the both of us, and many other members want.

 

Tricky question wasn't it? And I did a search in CFL already, and as I mentioned there are only only three previous posts that I found about this subject. May I add that this issue will come about again? I ain't the only guy in town that has had this thought already.

 

Dave

Edited March 18, 2010 by Cerberus (see edit history)

[shenzhen]

My situation is that we both live and work in China but she has a CR-1 visa issued that we will use before August 2010. I still have residence in USA and will not give this up plus I am paid from my USA company while working for the China subsidiary.

 

We were supposed to come back to the USA in July 2010 but now I may end up staying here longer (up to 2 more years) at my company's request.

 

I do not want to lose the 2-yr GC and have to re-do the I-130 to get her a 10-yr GC if we relocate to USA 2 years from now.

 

Now as far as the clock counting the days to becoming eligible for US citizenship that is something neither my wife nor I am interested in now.

Edited March 18, 2010 by shenzhen (see edit history)

[Randy W]

My situation is that we both live and work in China but she has a CR-1 visa issued that we will use before August 2010. I still have residence in USA and will not give this up plus I am paid from my USA company while working for the China subsidiary.

 

We were supposed to come back to the USA in July 2010 but now I may end up staying here longer (up to 2 more years) at my company's request.

 

I do not want to lose the 2-yr GC and have to re-do the I-130 to get her a 10-yr GC if we relocate to USA 2 years from now.

 

Now as far as the clock counting the days to becoming eligible for US citizenship that is something neither my wife nor I am interested in now.

 

Think about your situation, though. Once you have been married for 2 years or longer, you have two ways of getting the 10 year card.

 

You can either get back to the US using the 2 yr card and whatever AP, SB, or extension needed, or you can simply refile the I-130and get an IR-1 visa. The IR-1 visa comes with an automatic 10 year green card.

 

You can add up the dollar amounts to see which is cheaper, but the IR-1 might be the most expedient for you, whether you've actually used the CR-1 or not.

[dnoblett]

My situation is that we both live and work in China but she has a CR-1 visa issued that we will use before August 2010. I still have residence in USA and will not give this up plus I am paid from my USA company while working for the China subsidiary.

 

We were supposed to come back to the USA in July 2010 but now I may end up staying here longer (up to 2 more years) at my company's request.

 

I do not want to lose the 2-yr GC and have to re-do the I-130 to get her a 10-yr GC if we relocate to USA 2 years from now.

 

Now as far as the clock counting the days to becoming eligible for US citizenship that is something neither my wife nor I am interested in now.

You can do as Randy did, GIVE UP the green-card and later file an I-130 to get another IR-1 Spousal visa when you do make the permanent move to the USA. You can file DCF for the IR-1 visa, the in country process for this is perhaps 2-3 months.

 

Again the green-card is for LIVING in the USA Permanently, it is NOT a "permanent visa" for trips into the USA.

[shenzhen]

My situation is that we both live and work in China but she has a CR-1 visa issued that we will use before August 2010. I still have residence in USA and will not give this up plus I am paid from my USA company while working for the China subsidiary.

 

We were supposed to come back to the USA in July 2010 but now I may end up staying here longer (up to 2 more years) at my company's request.

 

I do not want to lose the 2-yr GC and have to re-do the I-130 to get her a 10-yr GC if we relocate to USA 2 years from now.

 

Now as far as the clock counting the days to becoming eligible for US citizenship that is something neither my wife nor I am interested in now.

You can do as Randy did, GIVE UP the green-card and later file an I-130 to get another IR-1 Spousal visa when you do make the permanent move to the USA. You can file DCF for the IR-1 visa, the in country process for this is perhaps 2-3 months.

 

Again the green-card is for LIVING in the USA Permanently, it is NOT a "permanent visa" for trips into the USA.

Yes I know I can do that ... but it requires going through the I-130 process again (not such a big deal) and another two years of not being able to have my legal wife visit my own country.

 

I realize that the GC is for LIVING in the USA permanently. I filed for the GC in orde to do just that but my company may (probably) will change those plans for me. So now I want to be able to bring my wife to the USA to visit, spend some money, and meet my parents.

[david_dawei]

They will normally re-issue two re-entry permits... after that, they consider you as not serious about the green card. Test this theory as you want.

[Randy W]

Dave, you just aren't getting the answers you want, are you?

 

The truth is that there's just no clear cut line that you cross. In the meantime, you're stick with wondering if she'll be allowed bck in

[Cerberus]

Dave, you just aren't getting the answers you want, are you?

 

The truth is that there's just no clear cut line that you cross. In the meantime, you're stick with wondering if she'll be allowed bck in

Randy,

 

Thanks for the response. I suppose that you didn't get my response via PM thanking you for your candor, and I will resend the PMs, in order to cover all bases. It was the first time I used a multiple-member PM response; and this is my bad!

 

Please believe me when I state...I got it! I¡¯m not worried about if she allowed back this time. We are two days under the required 6-month time-line. The real ¡°wrinkle¡° comes up with a stay 6-months or longer, with a USCIS approved Re-Entry Permit. As a side point to what I originally posted, and DavidZ only reconfirmed my original thoughts, that there is ¡°positive¡± passport scanning, and too many Re-Entry Permits are going to raise some very, very serious questions. USCIS personnel may be bureaucratic idiots. However! They aren¡¯t simpletons either.

 

 

Dan's and your input only confirmed my worst suspicions! The only thing that I could not read succinctly stated in the I-131 directions, was the time-line rule. That was my only question.

 

No! I don't like Dan's and your answers. You definitely didn't give me what I wanted to hear. However! It is the truth, and I need to make a new "game plan!" Not bitch and moan about the SOB's at USCIS, and how unfair they are!

 

I also understood exactly everything that Dan and yourself stated very clearly. Whether or not my own wife understood clearly.....is completely another issue in itself! Talked to her last night and tonight. Both times, I had to deal with a very unhappy Chinese "camper" on my hands. As I stated in a prior post, guess who has a Info Pass appointment at 1100hrs, 3/30/10? T!

 

Damnation! Chinese women are stubborn aren't they? They won't believe many loving spouses which care and love them, They want to go somewhere else, listen oftentimes to complete idiots, and later where a disinterested USCIS Govt employee throws an anvil on top of their heads! Then! And only then, do they get the point, and promptly go into panic mode, and guess who they run too? At that time; we get to clean up the split milk on the floor, and make everything right that fits their world!

 

The real surprise to me Randy came, when "shenzen" popped up out of nowhere and had some of the same issues, with different variants, to what I originally asked about! Like I stated in a prior post; "I ain't the only game in town!" That is why I specifically "butted out" and left it to you Randy! This is a very serious ex-pat problem! I hope that everything works out the best for him.

 

I still want to specifically and publicly thank Dan( DNoblett) and Randy for their input. BTW? \

 

Damn! There are times.....when I'm sick of tired of being right, and predicting what my wife will do! Didn't I state this fact already, in a prior post?

 

Oh well! If I learn anything new, I will post it here for future reference of other CFL members.

 

Dave

Edited March 20, 2010 by Cerberus (see edit history)