Why Antagonize China?

[Mick]

Good thing you had plenty of instant noodles. You had never told the part about the high Party official before. Holy crap that is awesome, something Seymour Hersch should write a book about.

 

You know, we never did figure out what was the reason for stopping visa processing for Chinese and Russian ladies after 9-11, leaving us in the Black Hole.

Yeah, all we know for sure is that on July 22, 2002, the rules changed, requiring the security clearance to be completed and back in GZ prior to the issuance of the visa. And when I look back on the domino effect of that one change, the term Black Hole seems so appropriate. The worse part Robert, and you and all of us who went through it know, was the total lack of credible information.

 

For those who weren't around back in those days of horror and woe, don't know what fun you missed. The rule change required the FBI to complete the background check and send it back to GZ prior to the issuance of the visa. Only problem was, somebody forgot to tell the FBI. As a result, most of our cases sat around on various FBI desks for months. What's worse, there was a 90 day window and, if the check was not completed, it had to be resubmitted. Ours was resubmitted at least twice, maybe three times. By the time they got to the second one, the first one had timed out.

 

I could go on and on.

 

Li's visa was approved on August 20, 2002 and they said we could get it in "around 30 days." We picked up our visa, finally, on March 10, 2003. And that was after waiting almost a year, just for the initial interview.

 

Those were, indeed, the days my friend, we thought they'd never end....we'd sing and dance, forever and a day....

[a2784]

Good thing you had plenty of instant noodles. You had never told the part about the high Party official before. Holy crap that is awesome, something Seymour Hersch should write a book about.

 

You know, we never did figure out what was the reason for stopping visa processing for Chinese and Russian ladies after 9-11, leaving us in the Black Hole.

Yeah, all we know for sure is that on July 22, 2002, the rules changed, requiring the security clearance to be completed and back in GZ prior to the issuance of the visa. And when I look back on the domino effect of that one change, the term Black Hole seems so appropriate. The worse part Robert, and you and all of us who went through it know, was the total lack of credible information.

 

For those who weren't around back in those days of horror and woe, don't know what fun you missed. The rule change required the FBI to complete the background check and send it back to GZ prior to the issuance of the visa. Only problem was, somebody forgot to tell the FBI. As a result, most of our cases sat around on various FBI desks for months. What's worse, there was a 90 day window and, if the check was not completed, it had to be resubmitted. Ours was resubmitted at least twice, maybe three times. By the time they got to the second one, the first one had timed out.

 

I could go on and on.

 

Li's visa was approved on August 20, 2002 and they said we could get it in "around 30 days." We picked up our visa, finally, on March 10, 2003. And that was after waiting almost a year, just for the initial interview.

 

Those were, indeed, the days my friend, we thought they'd never end....we'd sing and dance, forever and a day....

I thought this was the result of The Enhanced Border Security and Visa Entry Reform Act signed into law on May 14th, 2002. In the immediate aftermath of this law it was clearly documented by many universities and research organizations that the student visa issuance for students from China and India was severely slowed down due to background checks and delays.

[Dan de mingzi]

Good thing you had plenty of instant noodles. You had never told the part about the high Party official before. Holy crap that is awesome, something Seymour Hersch should write a book about.

 

You know, we never did figure out what was the reason for stopping visa processing for Chinese and Russian ladies after 9-11, leaving us in the Black Hole.

Yeah, all we know for sure is that on July 22, 2002, the rules changed, requiring the security clearance to be completed and back in GZ prior to the issuance of the visa. And when I look back on the domino effect of that one change, the term Black Hole seems so appropriate. The worse part Robert, and you and all of us who went through it know, was the total lack of credible information.

 

For those who weren't around back in those days of horror and woe, don't know what fun you missed. The rule change required the FBI to complete the background check and send it back to GZ prior to the issuance of the visa. Only problem was, somebody forgot to tell the FBI. As a result, most of our cases sat around on various FBI desks for months. What's worse, there was a 90 day window and, if the check was not completed, it had to be resubmitted. Ours was resubmitted at least twice, maybe three times. By the time they got to the second one, the first one had timed out.

 

I could go on and on.

 

Li's visa was approved on August 20, 2002 and they said we could get it in "around 30 days." We picked up our visa, finally, on March 10, 2003. And that was after waiting almost a year, just for the initial interview.

 

Those were, indeed, the days my friend, we thought they'd never end....we'd sing and dance, forever and a day....

 

I am SO glad I didn't have to go through all that; I think I would have gone postal

[Mick]

Way back when - before Candle - I was a mod on the Yahoo group AAC. One of our members named Bob lived down in Florida. His gal went for her interview the day before the 'visa machine broke'. That was one of the phoney things they told us.

 

Anyway, one of his gal's papers didn't meet the VO's standards so he told her to go away, fill out a new one and return it. Then he refused to give her the form. She ended up buying one from the scalpers outside the old consulate on Shamian Island. She filled it out and turned it in. They told her to come back the next day.

 

If I recall correctly, it took 17 or 18 months before her visa was finally issued. It was one of the longest waits; most were in the 6 ~ 12 month range. EVEN AFTER THE INTERVIEW WAS PASSED!!!

 

That was a horrible time. We filed our I-129F in May just before the black hole formed. It was 17 months to the day we filed that tai tai got her interview. After we had turned in her P-3 docs, other people filed their initial I-129f and got a visa before we got our interview. Everything was screwed up and they changed processes every month or two. Once you was in the flow, you couldn't change tracks - you were stuck with the track you was on.

 

Thankfully those times are long gone. There are still problems, but at least a person can reasonably predict their timeline these days.

 

For you newer members, cut us old timers some slack when we talk about the old days. We carried each other for a time and remember what it was like.

Don, it has been a lot of years since those days but I still remember them like it was yesterday. The absolute insanity of the situation was the worst part. Like you said, they kept changing the procedure in mid-stream and it seem GUZ, DOS, and FBI were never on the same page. It was an absolute hell hole for anyone who was stuck in it.

 

And if you recall, we got stuck in the Black Hole because GUZ mailed our P3 to the wrong address, backing everything up five weeks. Like you said, I only hope nothing of that magnitude ever strikes again.

[ShaQuaNew]

 

When you say "undermine China." I assume that you mean the CCP.

 

 

No. I did not. The Communist Party of China is changing, though I'm sure it will never be in alignment with Western ideology.

Edited February 11, 2010 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[a2784]

Way back when - before Candle - I was a mod on the Yahoo group AAC. One of our members named Bob lived down in Florida. His gal went for her interview the day before the 'visa machine broke'. That was one of the phoney things they told us.

 

Anyway, one of his gal's papers didn't meet the VO's standards so he told her to go away, fill out a new one and return it. Then he refused to give her the form. She ended up buying one from the scalpers outside the old consulate on Shamian Island. She filled it out and turned it in. They told her to come back the next day.

 

If I recall correctly, it took 17 or 18 months before her visa was finally issued. It was one of the longest waits; most were in the 6 ~ 12 month range. EVEN AFTER THE INTERVIEW WAS PASSED!!!

 

That was a horrible time. We filed our I-129F in May just before the black hole formed. It was 17 months to the day we filed that tai tai got her interview. After we had turned in her P-3 docs, other people filed their initial I-129f and got a visa before we got our interview. Everything was screwed up and they changed processes every month or two. Once you was in the flow, you couldn't change tracks - you were stuck with the track you was on.

 

Thankfully those times are long gone. There are still problems, but at least a person can reasonably predict their timeline these days.

 

For you newer members, cut us old timers some slack when we talk about the old days. We carried each other for a time and remember what it was like.

Wow..I cannot imagine how going through that must have felt.

[knloregon]

In August of 2001 and the first days of September, I like Mick, was in Hefei. In my case, to meet daughter # 2.

 

Video taping the city from our hotel, I commented that the air above Hefei----was quiet most of the day. Commercial aircraft only arrived and departed for a narrow window in the afternoon---apparently, when the control tower was opened and manned. And of course, there was no private aviation.

 

I remember talking to the camera, that this was nothing like being in a major American city, where commercial aircraft were always in the air above.

 

Daughter #2 passed the visa process in GZ at the end of the first week of September, and we were back in the US by the 9th. Two days later, the sky above every American city was quiet.

[slw268]

Way back when - before Candle - I was a mod on the Yahoo group AAC. One of our members named Bob lived down in Florida. His gal went for her interview the day before the 'visa machine broke'. That was one of the phoney things they told us.

 

Anyway, one of his gal's papers didn't meet the VO's standards so he told her to go away, fill out a new one and return it. Then he refused to give her the form. She ended up buying one from the scalpers outside the old consulate on Shamian Island. She filled it out and turned it in. They told her to come back the next day.

 

If I recall correctly, it took 17 or 18 months before her visa was finally issued. It was one of the longest waits; most were in the 6 ~ 12 month range. EVEN AFTER THE INTERVIEW WAS PASSED!!!

 

That was a horrible time. We filed our I-129F in May just before the black hole formed. It was 17 months to the day we filed that tai tai got her interview. After we had turned in her P-3 docs, other people filed their initial I-129f and got a visa before we got our interview. Everything was screwed up and they changed processes every month or two. Once you was in the flow, you couldn't change tracks - you were stuck with the track you was on.

 

Thankfully those times are long gone. There are still problems, but at least a person can reasonably predict their timeline these days.

 

For you newer members, cut us old timers some slack when we talk about the old days. We carried each other for a time and remember what it was like.

Although I don't post nearly as much as the old days, I will never forget them. Or the help and support I received from you and CFL.

36 1/2 months from beginning to end, and you know all about the other problem.

It was a very deep and powerful Black Hole indeed.

[Guest jin979]

sometimes I wonder if China and America are heading into troubles, both are telling eachother how they should act- dont meet the Lama... be more democractic, we know best. The problem is China is becoming as strong as the USA very fast while the USA is losing its world power and home riches .

I see many members even here on CFL talk about how China needs to move towards a democracy, why ? to change our corrupt to your corrupt system because its a better corrupt system, if so better for who ?

I see peple of power in both countries stuck in their own is best the answer maybe lies in both will need to change.

[samsong]

sometimes I wonder if China and America are heading into troubles, both are telling eachother how they should act- dont meet the Lama... be more democractic, we know best. The problem is China is becoming as strong as the USA very fast while the USA is losing its world power and home riches .

I see many members even here on CFL talk about how China needs to move towards a democracy, why ? to change our corrupt to your corrupt system because its a better corrupt system, if so better for who ?

I see peple of power in both countries stuck in their own is best the answer maybe lies in both will need to change.

Maybe it's a good thing that China and the USA is 180 degrees apart and seperated by a vast ocean. It couldn't have been any better even if it was planned.

[amberjack1234]

May 8, 1999 - a date that will always be remembered in China, but I doubt many of us here in the States remember why it is significant. I, for one, do remember it all too well.

 

I was living in Hefei at the time, Anhui Provencial Capital. Li and I had gone out to celebrate her birthday (May 7) and returned to campus about 11 pm. We did not live together at the time as we were not yet married.

 

Around 2 am she called me in hysterics asking if I was alright.

 

"I think so, why do you ask?" I said as the first bottle flew through my apartment window. Within an hour every window I had was gone. It was on that day, May 8, 1999, using "outdated maps" NATO bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, killing 3 people. I have told this story here before, so I won't go into the details, except to say that my apartment was surrounded by an angry, slogan spewing, bottle throwing mob. I was confined to my apartment for my own safety for five days or so, and subsisted on instant noodles and nothing else.

 

Somewhere, either in this thread, or another, Robert S. alluded to the fact that perhaps our governments have arrangements that we are not aware of. I am convinced this was one.

 

The students and other rebel rousers marched in the streets with anti-American fervor for five days, then stopped altogether. Not a peep on the sixth day and all was back to normal.

 

Now here is what I am convinced happened, and was later told by a fairly high ranking party official. The bombing happened, by arrangement between Washington and Beijing. This was three weeks prior to the 10th anniversary of Tiannammen Square and the government was really fearful of mass demonstrations. What better way to avoid that than to get the folks into the streets before that and drain off any buidling violence, not to mention distract their folks anger onto another "devil" besides their own government.

 

After five days, not only did the demonstrations stop, but any mention of the bombing was never mentioned again in the official press. It never happend.

 

Four days later, Beijing made a few concessions the US wanted that was holding up China's entry into the WTO. China was admitted not long after that.

 

Moral: You help us and we will give you the concessions you want.

 

Great. What do you want us to do?

 

Bomb our embassy. We need to let our folks blow off steam before June 3.

 

Will do.

 

Over and out.

 

You may think this kind of thing doesn't happen, but let me assure you it does. This guy who spilled all of this was no lower ranking party hack. He was on up there in the Party at a national level.

 

Sometimes, we never know what is really going on.

Mick, my wife tells me that when she was in college that the CCP would come to the college and give them instruction on how to conduct a march, protest, bottle throwing etc. and then direct them where they want the disturbance taken to and it was done until they were told to stop. They would stop and return to the campus as though nothing happened. Just a show. This certainly does sound like that is what took place at your place in 1999. Afterwords you say that there was not even a mention of it again. Usually when people get angry and riled up the will stay sensitive about it for a long time.

 

Larry

[tsap seui]

sometimes I wonder if China and America are heading into troubles, both are telling eachother how they should act- dont meet the Lama... be more democractic, we know best. The problem is China is becoming as strong as the USA very fast while the USA is losing its world power and home riches .

I see many members even here on CFL talk about how China needs to move towards a democracy, why ? to change our corrupt to your corrupt system because its a better corrupt system, if so better for who ?

I see peple of power in both countries stuck in their own is best the answer maybe lies in both will need to change.

 

Oh my Jin...what a great post!! Thank you!!! How I howled with laughter when I read your post.

 

I agree with you 1000%, but being an American by birth I could never portray the same message as you just did.

 

Thank you again. YOU nailed it!!

 

tsap seui

[a2784]

I would caution you about taking too seriously anything authored by George Gilder and the Discovery Institute. I don't want to start a political debate here, but please look up some of their policies regarding evolution before you give them too much credit.

But the chinese have found him now .....

 

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2010-...ent_9460950.htm