Why Antagonize China?

[lostinblue]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...ttoWhatsNewsTop
I found this an interesting article dealing with all the china bashers.
While attempting to appease a long list of utterly unappeasable foes—Iran, North Korea, Hamas, Hezbollah, and even Hugo Chávez—today the U.S. treats China, perhaps our most crucial economic partner, as an adversary because it defies us on global warming, dollar devaluation, and Internet policy.

It started last June in Beijing when U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner lectured Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao, who recoiled like a man cornered by a crank at a cocktail party. Mr. Geithner was haranguing the Chinese on two highly questionable themes, neither arguably in the interests of either country: the need to suppress energy output in the name of global warming—a subject on which Mr. Geithner has no expertise—and the need for a Chinese dollar devaluation, on which one can scarcely imagine that he can persuade Chinese holders of a trillion dollars of reserves. This week in a meeting with Senate Democrats, President Obama continued to fret about the dollar being too strong against the yuan at a time when most of the world's investors fear that the Chinese will act on his words and crash the dollar.
More......

[Dan de mingzi]

I would caution you about taking too seriously anything authored by George Gilder and the Discovery Institute. I don't want to start a political debate here, but please look up some of their policies regarding evolution before you give them too much credit.

[Minister]

 

While attempting to appease a long list of utterly unappeasable foes¡ªIran, North Korea, Hamas, Hezbollah, and even Hugo Ch¨¢vez¡ªtoday the U.S. treats China, perhaps our most crucial economic partner, as an adversary because it defies us on global warming, dollar devaluation, and Internet policy.

 

 

Some people would respond to this by asserting that China's refusal to adopt pollution controls to the detriment of themselves and their neighbors, their currency manipulation, and their laissez-faire attitude toward industrial spying and software piracy represent a large reason (but not the only reason) why western economies are struggling to compete.

[ShaQuaNew]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...ttoWhatsNewsTop

 

It started last June in Beijing when U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner lectured Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao, who recoiled like a man cornered by a crank at a cocktail party. Mr. Geithner was haranguing the Chinese on two highly questionable themes, neither arguably in the interests of either country: the need to suppress energy output in the name of global warming¡ªa subject on which Mr. Geithner has no expertise...

 

As time goes by, we'll be seeing more and more articles like this. Why? The world stage and players have changed. Why is it such a shock to the American press and people? Perhaps because less than 30% of all Americans have a passport? Cultural and economic ignorance seem to be a by-product of being an American citizen today.

 

For better or worse, China and other countries are taking the lead in this new production of "Sorry, now we're in Charge." The American public in general is waiting for CNN and Twitter to announce that the leadership roles have all been replaced by better looking, and more popular actors. The previous actors won't admit they received their pink slips a long while back.

 

...another quote for that article:

 

Meanwhile, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the president's friends at Google are hectoring China on Internet policy. Although commanding twice as many Internet users as we do, China originates fewer viruses and scams than does the U.S. and with Taiwan produces comparable amounts of Internet gear.

 

Protecting information on the Internet is a responsibility of U.S. corporations and their security tools, not the State Department.

 

...and finally...

 

It is self-destructive folly to sacrifice this core synergy at the heart of global capitalism in order to gain concessions on global warming, dollar weakening, or Internet politics.

 

How many enemies do we need?

Edited February 5, 2010 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

To answer the post title question:

 

The US is a buffoon masquerading as an international court jester.

[3timescharm]

God must really love the USA haters in theis world

[tsap seui]

I once, offered, and almost lost my life for America, but when I see it, I don't tolerate stupid very easily. Especially at his level.

 

tsap seui

[Stepbrow]

To answer the post title question:

 

The US is a buffoon masquerading as an international court jester.

 

One of the nice things about living in the US is that you can say things like this and not be sentenced to hard labor in prison for the rest of your life.

 

Regarding this subject, I agree with the blog by Liz Economy of the Council on Foreign Relations. She says this: "Frankly, the potential for a full-blown deterioration in relations between our two countries has been grossly overblown. There is nothing new here. We are merely witnessing the reality of the U.S.-China relationship, which is marked by almost no trust, a weak foundation of real cooperation, and a lack of shared values and commitment to true compromise. China and the United States have never achieved full agreement on how to approach climate change; we have regular disputes over Taiwan arms sales and the Dalai Lama; and we have never had a truly common approach to Iran. The only ¡°new¡± issue on the table is the Chinese cyberhacking of Google, a number of major American companies and think tanks, and Chinese dissidents¡­and even that is probably not all that new. We just didn¡¯t know about it."

 

You can read to entire blog at this address: http://blogs.cfr.org/asia/2010/02/02/the-u...ve-at-it-again/

[a2784]

To answer the post title question:

 

The US is a buffoon masquerading as an international court jester.

 

One of the nice things about living in the US is that you can say things like this and not be sentenced to hard labor in prison for the rest of your life.

 

Yes, quite. Even when it is true.

Well not so fast ... try saying something along those lines while in an airport in the USA and see what happens ...

[a2784]

 

While attempting to appease a long list of utterly unappeasable foes¡ªIran, North Korea, Hamas, Hezbollah, and even Hugo Ch¨¢vez¡ªtoday the U.S. treats China, perhaps our most crucial economic partner, as an adversary because it defies us on global warming, dollar devaluation, and Internet policy.

 

 

Some people would respond to this by asserting that China's refusal to adopt pollution controls to the detriment of themselves and their neighbors, their currency manipulation, and their laissez-faire attitude toward industrial spying and software piracy represent a large reason (but not the only reason) why western economies are struggling to compete.

Maybe some would but it that is true then the west should not be bitching or trying to start any fights with China because this would mean they are the superpower now. I cant see how the global economic crisis can be in large caused by China.

[ShaQuaNew]

To answer the post title question:

 

The US is a buffoon masquerading as an international court jester.

 

One of the nice things about living in the US is that you can say things like this and not be sentenced to hard labor in prison for the rest of your life.

 

Regarding this subject, I agree with the blog by Liz Economy of the Council on Foreign Relations. She says this: "Frankly, the potential for a full-blown deterioration in relations between our two countries has been grossly overblown.

 

Again, the topic, "Why antagonize China."

 

It's one thing to speak out about your own country, and another when there is an ongoing effort to undermine China with issues that have been spun, and respun for 60 years. In a sense, I agree with David's "buffoon" statement, because a large segment of the US public is much better educated and informed. These tactics worked when American citizens relied on newsreels at the movie theater to hear the news from weeks before.

 

People speak out in China every single day, and none of them are being locked up for doing it. There is verbal dissent, and then there is dissent that takes a violent and disruptive form.

Edited February 7, 2010 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[Stepbrow]

To answer the post title question:

 

The US is a buffoon masquerading as an international court jester.

 

One of the nice things about living in the US is that you can say things like this and not be sentenced to hard labor in prison for the rest of your life.

 

Regarding this subject, I agree with the blog by Liz Economy of the Council on Foreign Relations. She says this: "Frankly, the potential for a full-blown deterioration in relations between our two countries has been grossly overblown.

 

Again, the topic, "Why antagonize China."

 

It's one thing to speak out about your own country, and another when there is an ongoing effort to undermine China with issues that have been spun, and respun for 60 years. In a sense, I agree with David's "buffoon" statement, because a large segment of the US public is much better educated and informed. These tactics worked when American citizens relied on newsreels at the movie theater to hear the news from weeks before.

 

People speak out in China every single day, and none of them are being locked up for doing it. There is verbal dissent, and then there is dissent that takes a violent and disruptive form.

 

When you say "undermine China." I assume that you mean the CCP. I say this because most everyone here, including my self, like and love China, its people and culture very much. The CCP would lead you to believe that any criticism of their policies is considered "undermining China," when in fact it is just a right of the people of China to freely express themselves. Freedom of speech is guaranteed by the Chinese Constitution except when it is "disruptive." "Disruptive" as defined by the CCP is any expression of disagreement with any CCP policy or act.

 

Getting beyond the rhetoric this means that if you stand up and demand that the government abide by the Constitution you are considered "disruptive." and you will be put in prison like Liu Xiaobo. You can read what fineart thinks about him here: http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...c=40480&hl=

 

If you are an attorney and wish to defend some "disruptive" citizens you will end up like Gao Zhisheng. He disappeared about a year ago. http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/28529/

 

If you are a "disruptive" citizen, like a Tibetan or a Uighur, and you speak out or demonstrate against the CCP policies, you will be jailed. You do not have the right to disagree with the CCP. They know what is right, not the citizen.

 

I could go on, but I think that this is enough.

 

Getting back to the topic of "Why Antagonize China," I don't believe that it is the intent of the US to antagonize China. The US is simply providing defensive weapons to a long time ally. Taiwan, after all, asked for these weapons, the US did not force them upon them. Should we abandon our ally, Taiwan? What do yo think would happen to Taiwan if the US did not provide the weapons? I believe that the CCP hates and fears Taiwan for two reasons. The CCP hates Taiwan because of the civil war. Taiwan lost the war, but the CCP was unable to invade and subdue Taiwan, so they have a lingering hatred. Second, Taiwan represents a Chinese democratic society. This democratic society follows the rule of law, and gives its citizens civil rights. The CCP fears the example that Taiwan gives to the Chinese people. After all, what if the Chinese people decided that they wanted the rule of law, civil rights, and a democratically elected government?

[Robert S.]

There is no need to disagree about government abuse of power in China, so I won't. But when you say Taiwan lost the war and the PRC was unable to invade and subdue Taiwan you could be a little bit off there. The civil war was not between the mainland and the island, it was between the communists and the nationalists. When the nationalists lost they retreated to Taiwan, invaded and took over there. China would have been able to invade and finally defeat Chiang and his people if it were not for the advent of the Korean War which made it seem advantagous to Truman to deny China control of the island of Formosa. So he sent the US Navy to prevent hostilities. Ever since then Taiwan has been essentially a pawn in the US government's campaign against China.

[Mick]

May 8, 1999 - a date that will always be remembered in China, but I doubt many of us here in the States remember why it is significant. I, for one, do remember it all too well.

 

I was living in Hefei at the time, Anhui Provencial Capital. Li and I had gone out to celebrate her birthday (May 7) and returned to campus about 11 pm. We did not live together at the time as we were not yet married.

 

Around 2 am she called me in hysterics asking if I was alright.

 

"I think so, why do you ask?" I said as the first bottle flew through my apartment window. Within an hour every window I had was gone. It was on that day, May 8, 1999, using "outdated maps" NATO bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, killing 3 people. I have told this story here before, so I won't go into the details, except to say that my apartment was surrounded by an angry, slogan spewing, bottle throwing mob. I was confined to my apartment for my own safety for five days or so, and subsisted on instant noodles and nothing else.

 

Somewhere, either in this thread, or another, Robert S. alluded to the fact that perhaps our governments have arrangements that we are not aware of. I am convinced this was one.

 

The students and other rebel rousers marched in the streets with anti-American fervor for five days, then stopped altogether. Not a peep on the sixth day and all was back to normal.

 

Now here is what I am convinced happened, and was later told by a fairly high ranking party official. The bombing happened, by arrangement between Washington and Beijing. This was three weeks prior to the 10th anniversary of Tiannammen Square and the government was really fearful of mass demonstrations. What better way to avoid that than to get the folks into the streets before that and drain off any buidling violence, not to mention distract their folks anger onto another "devil" besides their own government.

 

After five days, not only did the demonstrations stop, but any mention of the bombing was never mentioned again in the official press. It never happend.

 

Four days later, Beijing made a few concessions the US wanted that was holding up China's entry into the WTO. China was admitted not long after that.

 

Moral: You help us and we will give you the concessions you want.

 

Great. What do you want us to do?

 

Bomb our embassy. We need to let our folks blow off steam before June 3.

 

Will do.

 

Over and out.

 

You may think this kind of thing doesn't happen, but let me assure you it does. This guy who spilled all of this was no lower ranking party hack. He was on up there in the Party at a national level.

 

Sometimes, we never know what is really going on.

[Robert S.]

Good thing you had plenty of instant noodles. You had never told the part about the high Party official before. Holy crap that is awesome, something Seymour Hersch should write a book about.

 

You know, we never did figure out what was the reason for stopping visa processing for Chinese and Russian ladies after 9-11, leaving us in the Black Hole.