Pronunciation

[Smitty]

I was at my favorite tiny hiney place and reading the fortune from the fortune cookie.

 

They are really terrible fortunes but they have a vocabulary word on each one, with a pronunciation guide.

 

So I was curious as to the pronunciation of a word and I asked one of the ladies. The way she said it was only vaguely similar to the way it was written.

 

I often wonder about this stuff as my job is fairly brain numbing and I need something to almost keep a few neurons firing.

 

Why is Vietnamese soup written as pho (I know there's one of those weird marks over the o but I'm too lazy right now to figure out how to do it. Dang it Apple - I want Keycaps back in OS X! ), instead of pha or even fa?

 

Was the previous system of writing the phonetic version of Chinese any better with regards to the way it sounded?

Edited October 19, 2009 by Smitty (see edit history)

[warpedbored]

Until the French made Vietnam a colony only the ruling elite could read and write and they used Chinese characters. The French brought literacy to the masses, the same letters we use. A system they still use today. How they pronounce it was probably figured out by the same evil demon that came up with Pin Yin.

[Randy W]

Blame it on Wade-Giles

ow Wade and Giles did a Disservice to the English Speaking World

 

For many years English speakers have been horribly mispronouncing Chinese words and names. The cause of this: the Wade-Giles system of romanization. I'm sure doctors Wade and Giles had only the best of intentions when they devised this attrocity--and I have no doubt that Linguists think it a masterpiece. But it is because of this system that we are today in such a state of calamity--as Alan Watts described it: "Department of utter confusion!"

 

http://www.dionysia.org/chinese/language/wade-giles.html

 

Part of the problem is that we use only 26 letters to represent something like 75 different sounds

For example, many speakers are not aware that the sound spelled "th" in "this" is a different consonant than the "th" sound in "thing". (In the IPA they are transcribed ð and ¦È, respectively.)

Edited October 19, 2009 by Randy W (see edit history)

[carl.hops]

Pho sounds like fuh phonetically. Have you seen any restaurants out there with the name "What the Pho?"

Edited October 20, 2009 by carl.hops (see edit history)

[Guest Tony n Terrific]

Pho sounds like fuh phonetically. Have you seen any restaurants out there with the name "What the Pho?"

Do Me in Nanning, China.

[knloregon]

"...How they pronounce it was probably figured out by the same evil demon that came up with Pin Yin...."

 

So true. Working with the girls on their Mandarin home work, me using the Pin Ying: HA, HA, HA ~ ! Oh, Papa, you're such a kidder ~ !

[A Mafan]

...the same evil demon that came up with Pin Yin.

Pinyin is awesome.

 

For a school project, I tried to come up with my own romanization method once, to fix some of the problems in pinyin.

 

It is harder than it seems.

[weiaijiayou]

...the same evil demon that came up with Pin Yin.

Pinyin is awesome.

 

For a school project, I tried to come up with my own romanization method once, to fix some of the problems in pinyin.

 

It is harder than it seems.

Yeah, pinyin is great. As for Wade-Giles -- what the hell were they thinking?

 

How far did your project get? tai mafan for a mafan ma? B)

[Smitty]

Pho sounds like fuh phonetically. Have you seen any restaurants out there with the name "What the Pho?"

Not to me at least. It looks like foe, not fuh, so I say foe.

[carl.hops]

Pho sounds like fuh phonetically. Have you seen any restaurants out there with the name "What the Pho?"

Not to me at least. It looks like foe, not fuh, so I say foe.

 

You definitely should, unless they have the tone mark above the O (they usually don't).

[Smitty]

They usually don't, but I believe they are supposed to have a mark. Since the mark only annoys me, I still say foe!

[kevins]

 

Why is Vietnamese soup written as pho (I know there's one of those weird marks over the o but I'm too lazy right now to figure out how to do it. Dang it Apple - I want Keycaps back in OS X! ), instead of pha or even fa?

 

Was the previous system of writing the phonetic version of Chinese any better with regards to the way it sounded?

 

It is pronounced like phu. Buy (or borrow) Pimsleur's Vietnamese tapes. Also have your SO write down all the sounds and just practice on the pronunciation. Vietnamese is harder than Mandarin but it is possible for a native English speaker to learn.

[TLB]

Pinyin has its quirks, but I'm *so* glad I didn't have to learn Wade-Giles -- what a nightmare!

 

Hey kevins, where in the Lone Star State are you?

 

 

Tim in Austin

[Kyle]

Just because you guys are talking about pinyin. . .

 

For those of you who study Chinese and have set up your system keyboard for dual languages, there is a free (clean) download that will allow you to type pinyin (including tone markers). Works on XP/Vista.

 

Now, most Chinese will hate it. After studying Chinese for a while, I have more difficulty reading pinyin than I do reading characters. I use it a lot though, when writing on my personal blog to people back home. I've found that it has helped them understand a little easier, when I discuss aspects of the Chinese language that they are unfamiliar with.

 

http://www.chinese-forums.com/showthread.php?t=13005

Edited October 29, 2009 by KJJ (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

Just because you guys are talking about pinyin. . .

 

For those of you who study Chinese and have set up your system keyboard for dual languages, there is a free (clean) download that will allow you to type pinyin (including tone markers). Works on XP/Vista.

 

Now, most Chinese will hate it. After studying Chinese for a while, I have more difficulty reading pinyin than I do reading characters. I use it a lot though, when writing on my personal blog to people back home. I've found that it has helped them understand a little easier, when I discuss aspects of the Chinese language that they are unfamiliar with.

 

http://www.chinese-forums.com/showthread.php?t=13005

I downloaded and tried it.. but I don't want it as the default chinese input when I change to chinese; why would I ?

 

I can't figure out how to make it not chinese default when switching bilingually. So I deleted it.