Chairman Meow Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 If a woman comes here on a k3, finds out that her marriage isn't working, gets a divorce after three months in the USA, can she then remarry another American? Or must she start all over again from China? She had an AOS but the I-130 was withdrawn....CM Link to comment
Dave G. Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 If a woman comes here on a k3, finds out that her marriage isn't working, gets a divorce after three months in the USA, can she then remarry another American? Or must she start all over again from China? She had an AOS but the I-130 was withdrawn....CMCM... Let me rephrase your question, if I may. You are actually dealing with two sets of laws. One is at the State level; one is at the federal level. May someone remarry an American after divorce? I believe any State in the US would say yes! When legally divorced, people are free to remarry. Can someone manipulate the system to stay in the US by marrying another US citizen following divorce? Probably yes. It has been the opinion by many on CFL that once on US soil, AOS is granted for a number of reasons. When the foriegn national is granted the K3 visa, the assumption is that they come here in good faith to live with their spouse. The two year waiting period under the conditional residency status is meant to ensure relationships are valid. If divorced after only three months, it would stand to reason that the relationship is no longer valid. As such, realistically the foriegn national should go home. But, thanks to groups like the ACLU, everyone (and their dog?) has "civil rights" regardless of their country of origin. Given the scenerio posed here, I can't imagine immigrating to the US, going through divorce, having the pain that goes with it, courting, falling in love, and having a real marriage in only three months. The mere nature of the question suggests the person's intent to come to the US via a K visa not for love or marriage, but to abuse/misuse our system in order to live in the US. Alas, the system allows for this, provided all requirements are met. No measures of love exist. My only hope is that the woman in question keeps in mind the possible heartache that one may suffer by being used for fraudulent means. Is their lust for US citizenship greater than the feelings or needs of another? The answer should be self-evident. Forgive me if I misread or went on a tangent. Visa fraud just gets me SO angry, especially when lives are at stake. http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung0903/sauer/angry-smiley-037.gif Link to comment
Chairman Meow Posted November 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 Can someone manipulate the system to stay in the US by marrying another US citizen following divorce? Probably yes. It has been the opinion by many on CFL that once on US soil, AOS is granted for a number of reasons. When the foriegn national is granted the K3 visa, the assumption is that they come here in good faith to live with their spouse. The two year waiting period under the conditional residency status is meant to ensure relationships are valid. If divorced after only three months, it would stand to reason that the relationship is no longer valid. As such, realistically the foriegn national should go home. But, thanks to groups like the ACLU, everyone (and their dog?) has "civil rights" regardless of their country of origin. Given the scenerio posed here, I can't imagine immigrating to the US, going through divorce, having the pain that goes with it, courting, falling in love, and having a real marriage in only three months. The mere nature of the question suggests the person's intent to come to the US via a K visa not for love or marriage, but to abuse/misuse our system in order to live in the US. Alas, the system allows for this, provided all requirements are met. No measures of love exist. My only hope is that the woman in question keeps in mind the possible heartache that one may suffer by being used for fraudulent means. Is their lust for US citizenship greater than the feelings or needs of another? The answer should be self-evident. Forgive me if I misread or went on a tangent. Visa fraud just gets me SO angry, especially when lives are at stake. http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung0903/sauer/angry-smiley-037.gifHi Dave G, thanks for your response. There is no intent at this time to marry, not now or even in the future. The question is more hypothetical....if she did meet a guy, in the midst of the first situation that turned out not be what she imagined.....this can happen given the nature of interent speed dating....could she eventually marry another American man without having to start the whole visa process over? In fact, she has returned to China already, but her current visas would allow her to come and go from the USA for the next two years.... I know you are cynical of her intentions.....but could she return, marry another American while using the k3 visa status from the first guy? You can certainly understand not wanting to repeat the visa application over, yes? I understand that she and he would be violating the spirit of the law - but hell, the law is damned stupid to begin with! CM Link to comment
Dave G. Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 Hi CM... I love hypotheticals! It opens the door for good, healthy discussion. Hopefully, it's removed enough that no feelings get hurt. I never considered that that gal still has the K3 in her passport. You are correct. With it, she can still cross the borders until it expires. Unless, of course, CIS gets their act together and realizes the I-130 was withdrawn and flags the visa at the point of entry. I wouldn't hold my breath that they are that organized. As far as the law being stupid...I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. Hindsight being 20/20, I'd say it's damn annoying and frustrating. Stupid? No. It has value. Anything with value can't be stupid. One of the purposes of the law is to protect US citizens from being manipulated, misused, and hurt. Sins of the father, as it were. God knows there are people (men and women) who will do anything to come to this great land. Even if it means treading on the lives and hearts of others. My country's version of "cruel to be kind?" Perhaps. Of course, there are other reasons the law and procedures are in place. I'll forgo the political relationships between the US and other countries and will even forgo the whole 9/11 thing. I think those reasons are clear. Gee...a hypothetical in a hypothetical? Have you ever sat down and played a game of Monopoly? A great game with a specific set of rules. First and foremost, no one said you had to play the game. It is a choice you make. But, when you make the choice, don't you also agree to abide by the rules of the game? Is it stupid that you have to make all those turns around the board with the dream of earning the privilege of owning Boardwalk and Park Place complete with hotels? Wouldn't it be easier to start the game that way? Of course it would. But, because the game's rules say otherwise, you start at the beginning and end up where you may. Naturally, in the real world there are ways to circumvent the rules and people have an uncanny way of justifying it. If a man's wife had a terminal disease and had no money to pay for her treatment, it's justified to rob a bank. Right? Bank robbery would be a stupid law in that instance. If a mother's child is sexually molested, she has the right to kill the molester. Right? Murder would be a stupid law. If I had a bad case of diarrhea and drove at 90 MPH to get home to my toilet, I'm justified to speed. Right? Speeding would also be a stupid law. Because someone decides they want to live in the US instead of China, it's justified to bypass all rules -- including the spirit of the law -- to get what they want, when they want it, and how they want it. Their desire trumps the law and procedure. Their immigration lust makes the law stupid. Right? Just some further thoughts to illicit more conversation.... http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung0903/aktion/action-smiley-080.gif Link to comment
Chairman Meow Posted November 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 HI Dave G. my my, you are truly a moral absolutist. 1.Are you suggesting that, if you had found a loophole to bring your loved one here sooner, that you would not have done that? What if you had a friend who had an international business, who agreed to "hire" your wife and bring her here on a business visa? you could then "meet" while she was here, fall in love, and get married - do not pass go, skip the jail - go straight to boardwalk....ie..AOS....you wouldn't do that ? Really? 2. I still think the law is stupid. When Chinese women start blowing up stuff, then this law is not stupid. Until then it's about immigration control for other politically uncorrect reasons. Moreover, the time that is required to get such a visa is nothing short of absurd.3. Owning Boardwalk and Parkplace by earning them? Give me a break. what are you, some kind of communist? (Just joking here - this is not a personal attack in way on Dave G.)People in this country are born everyday with priveledges that others will never earn, or even dream of. It's the American way. Look at our president. And they don't have to wait in line, either....CM Link to comment
whoever Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 Dave is not the only absolutist on this board. But, he has got his point. Even I don't "like" him being so "absolute, I do respect him. (I would be the one who is willing to do some "dirty" tricks to get my lover here fast ) However, the laws are only applying to the ones that obey the laws. Link to comment
Robert S. Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 I keep waiting for us to get a member from Detroit who would get a Candian tourist visa for his sweetie, and she could live in Windsor and he would cross over the border every evening. Wouldn't that be romantic? They make it so difficult, I believe, hoping to make us change our mind. Link to comment
warpedbored Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 Before I married my exwife (she is from Japan) I called up the local INS office and asked them what we have to do to get married. They told me we needed to get a fiance visa and it takes about six months. I then asked them what would happen if she just came over here and we got married. They told me it wouldn't be a problem. Kind of a no brainer I thought. She came on a tourist visa and we got married. Took about six months to get her green card and ssn. When we went for our AOS interview the VO kind of frowned on the whole situation and reminded us that she had come into the country illegally but he approved it anyway. Of course that was in 1980 and things are much different now but the point is would I do it again? If I thought that Bing and I could get away with it and she could even get a tourist visa to come here? Damn straight I would. Now if the fiance visa took a more reasonable amount of time to obtain, say three months, no I wouldn't. Now immigration laws are tougher and I have no choice but to do this by the letter of the law. The risk of your loved one being deported and banned for at least ten years is too great. So it seems that Dave G has a point. The law is not stupid. It is preventing me from bringing my fiance here illegally. Exactly as it was designed to do. Of course the long waiting time to obtain her visa is beyond unreasonable and when I thought six months was too long before my first marriage it made me decide to circumvent the law. Link to comment
piepie Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 If a woman comes here on a k3, finds out that her marriage isn't working, gets a divorce after three months in the USA, can she then remarry another American? Or must she start all over again from China? She had an AOS but the I-130 was withdrawn....CMShe CAN'T!! Be aware: 2 options Before issuing the conditional green card, her staying will be illegal if the marriage damaged. After issuing the conditional green card, her staying will be legally no matter the marriage kept or damaged. Link to comment
warpedbored Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 As Dave pointed out if she is in this country and divorced she can marry whomever she pleases. It just doesn't affect her legal status. She would be required by law to return to China and re file. It is possible that in filing for AOS they may let her stay anyway but I wouldn't count on it. Link to comment
JoeCool Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 If the first guy reported to Immigration that the marriage had terminiated, wouldn't they cancel the visa anyway? Given that she now back in China, it's hug risk that she'd get on the plane, arrive at Immigration here and find out the her visa is invalid... Link to comment
warpedbored Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 It would be a huge risk. Knowing how slow the wheels of govt turn though it would probably take a long time to get it into the system Link to comment
piepie Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 If the first guy reported to Immigration that the marriage had terminiated, wouldn't they cancel the visa anyway? Given that she now back in China, it's hug risk that she'd get on the plane, arrive at Immigration here and find out the her visa is invalid...The visa cant be cancelled if it is issued Link to comment
warpedbored Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 I believe that as soon as the I-130 is withdrawn the visa is no longer valid. Someone else here might know for sure. It is a probationary visa and can be withdrawn until a permanent green card is issued. It is only valid as long as the couple are married. Link to comment
piepie Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 I believe that as soon as the I-130 is withdrawn the visa is no longer valid. Someone else here might know for sure. It is a probationary visa and can be withdrawn until a permanent green card is issued. It is only valid as long as the couple are married.As long as she entered into USA, As k3 holder, the visa no longer useful, the trouble for her will be the interview later on. Link to comment
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