trouble understanding her regarding visiting her.

[Turbo SS1414]

So me and my girl have talked about me visiting her. Well I just recently graduated with an MBA and dont have full time employment yet. I am working temporarily. She wants me to visit and I want to visit her.

 

I told her if I find a job I may not get much vacation time right away. If I only get a week vacation that means I could only visit her for a few days. I thought if I dont find a job in the next couple of months I could visit her and spend like 1-2 weeks with her and without wasting any job vacation time. Well she doesnt seem to agree with this.

 

She said that she wants me to find a job first so the situation is more stable and mature. I know have a job and stability is very important to Chinese women. Its important to me too. She thinks I will be a different person when I visit if I am currently working. I explained my point of view about vacation time and I didnt see why it mattered whether I had a job or not when I came to visit her. She had trouble explaining her reasoning in English though. She basically came down to its different culture and I should get this website or one of my chinese friends to explain her thoughts better. So maybe someone can give me some insight.

[david_dawei]

a job means a secure future for her; she wants to feel that you will take care of her. Maybe there is some small subtle face issue she would feel if a guy practically without a job visited her; her friends or family would ask what you do and can you imagine the chinese response to not having a decent job? She'll could advise to dump you fast.

 

The problem I see is that waiting for a job prolongs issues; meaning, if you could visit her now it would allow you guys to truly see if it's a relationship that should happen... honestly, there's too much rush to the filings and I'd recommend visiting twice and getting to know each other before filing. The problem is, this logic is probably lost on many chinese who think if the first visit is good no need to wait to file.

 

And we're back to the original problem; visiting her without a job is something she just would not want. At least she has been honest with this and I personally would look for work for now.

[Dennis143]

Tell everyone (and her) that you recently graduated and have been offered a job (have someone offer you anything...gardening, trash collecting and embellish the title) after you return from your much deserved R&R in China.

 

Waiting for vacation will take a year and that's after you find a job for an MBA which, in today's market, may or may not be quick.

 

You need to get the visit out of the way now, if you're hoping to plan a future with her.

[credzba]

Turbo,

 

I differ from some of the other opinions.

A job to Chinese people I know is more important than anything.

 

Let me give you a vivid example:

I have worked continuously for 30 years, I make 6 figure salary, own a house, money in savings, all the trappings of a successful husband.

My wife and I have been married for 2 years, and known each other almost 4 years.

I recently was laid off, but given 6 months pay.

It has been about 6 weeks I have been looking for a job, and my wife will not tell her friends, or her family that I have been laid off.

Finally I got a job offer recently, and after I accept this offer, then she will tell her family.

 

I am telling you it is a HUGE loss of face to have no job.

 

Here is what I suggest.

Find a job first, and arrange your start date so that you have a few weeks before your first day.

Then, use these weeks to visit your fiancee.

You then have an MBA, a job, and time with your woman.

[Dennis143]

Turbo,

 

I differ from some of the other opinions.

A job to Chinese people I know is more important than anything.

 

Let me give you a vivid example:

I have worked continuously for 30 years, I make 6 figure salary, own a house, money in savings, all the trappings of a successful husband.

My wife and I have been married for 2 years, and known each other almost 4 years.

I recently was laid off, but given 6 months pay.

It has been about 6 weeks I have been looking for a job, and my wife will not tell her friends, or her family that I have been laid off.

Finally I got a job offer recently, and after I accept this offer, then she will tell her family.

 

I am telling you it is a HUGE loss of face to have no job.

 

Here is what I suggest.

Find a job first, and arrange your start date so that you have a few weeks before your first day.

Then, use these weeks to visit your fiancee.

You then have an MBA, a job, and time with your woman.

Yeah, that's an even better idea.

[weiaijiayou]

I thought if I dont find a job in the next couple of months I could visit her and spend like 1-2 weeks with her and without wasting any job vacation time. Well she doesnt seem to agree with this.

would the answer be different if you asked, "can i come now?" the idea of coming "if you don't find a job in the next couple of months" and going fresh out of school with an MBA and an optimistic attitude seem different to me. it might be the idea of not being able to find a job that is scaring her and increasing her perceived urgency of finding a job. with chinese people, sometimes verbalizing a negative possibility is like manifesting it yourself.

[A Mafan]

I think her feeling is: you don't spend lots of money when you don't have a job.

 

2nd, don't lie about having a job when you don't have one. Because you shouldn't ever lie to a Chinese spouse, about anything. Not even little white lies.

 

In my experience they see character and honesty a little more rigidly than most of American society.

[Turbo SS1414]

Thanks for the input guys. It really helps alot! She did mention that part of it was she was worried about the money it would cost me without a job. However, my mom passed away a couple of years ago and I inherited everything of hers so affording the trip is no problem for me. I tried to reassure her many times not to worry about the money for the visit but she brought it back up a few times.

 

I graduated in May and I knew it would be tough to find a full time job. I have come very close a few times but no luck yet. I still have some good leads and I am still working a temporary job.

 

I also do not want to rush into this at all. I do not plan on even asking her to marry me during the visit. I would be worried I would be caught up in the moment without going home after the visit and really thinking about how I felt about her in real life. We have been talking since early April and I was hoping to visit her in December. I guess if I dont have a job I am not going though. I didnt realize it would be a huge loss of face for her if i visited without a job.

[tonado]

No job means lose face to her family.

[chengdu4me]

Everyone has given you the negatives of going to see her without a job.

 

I live in Chengdu. I came here with my savings, got a home, got married, got settled. Even though my wife knows we are financially secure, I can see that it causes her some moments of doubt. She sees this pile of cash and she sees it go out, but she never sees any come in. To her and to her family, I am "retired" and that is fine.

 

Recently, out of the blue, I was offered a really good job. When I told my wife about it, you could almost see the worry and weight just float away! She was so happy! And, more important, she became very proud! Bragging rights! She is married to a Professor at the most pretigious University in Sichuan Province! Oh my! You should have seen her face when she was telling her mother!!!. (I'm not a professor, I'm a teacher...just a plain ole' teacher)

 

Your sweetie wants/needs to brag on you to family and friends. She needs to be able to show she has caught the big one and there ain't no way she is letting go of that line! She needs the one reason in the world to a Chinese family to pursue this relationship with you and to have all her friends and families blessing. I hate to break it to you, but LOVE ain't it!!!!! It is security!!!! Security for her, her family, your family, your children together...it doesn't mean love isn't there...it just means that love don't feed the kitty...love to a Chinese woman is a matter of pragmatism and logic....lets face it...she could love anyone she wanted to...but why waste the effort for just the emotion?...use it and other talents, educations, efforts to build a good life!

 

Give her what she wants...a mature, responsible, logical, well-educated, employed husband....she..and you..will be happier for it!

 

Another thought would be get a job in China. With an MBA, you are on the top of the heap for a teaching job. Come to China, teach for a year while waiting for the US economy to improve, get to know this fine lady and then go from there...if you stay here for two years after you are married, you cut out a lot of red tape as far as getting her a visa.

Edited September 3, 2009 by chengdu4me (see edit history)

[A Mafan]

Everyone has given you the negatives of going to see her without a job.

 

I live in Chengdu. I came here with my savings, got a home, got married, got settled. Even though my wife knows we are financially secure, I can see that it causes her some moments of doubt. She sees this pile of cash and she sees it go out, but she never sees any come in. To her and to her family, I am "retired" and that is fine.

 

Recently, out of the blue, I was offered a really good job. When I told my wife about it, you could almost see the worry and weight just float away! She was so happy! And, more important, she became very proud! Bragging rights! She is married to a Professor at the most pretigious University in Sichuan Province! Oh my! You should have seen her face when she was telling her mother!!!. (I'm not a professor, I'm a teacher...just a plain ole' teacher)

 

Your sweetie wants/needs to brag on you to family and friends. She needs to be able to show she has caught the big one and there ain't no way she is letting go of that line! She needs the one reason in the world to a Chinese family to pursue this relationship with you and to have all her friends and families blessing. I hate to break it to you, but LOVE ain't it!!!!! It is security!!!! Security for her, her family, your family, your children together...it doesn't mean love isn't there...it just means that love don't feed the kitty...love to a Chinese woman is a matter of pragmatism and logic....lets face it...she could love anyone she wanted to...but why waste the effort for just the emotion?...use it and other talents, educations, efforts to build a good life!

 

Give her what she wants...a mature, responsible, logical, well-educated, employed husband....she..and you..will be happier for it!

 

Another thought would be get a job in China. With an MBA, you are on the top of the heap for a teaching job. Come to China, teach for a year while waiting for the US economy to improve, get to know this fine lady and then go from there...if you stay here for two years after you are married, you cut out a lot of red tape as far as getting her a visa.

+1

I don't know if it really is "Security first, love 2nd", as much as it that she expects you will express love for her by caring about her needs for security. If you don't care about her security, how can you say you love her, so how can she continue to love you?

 

To explain: How many guys would still want to marry their girlfriend if she said: "no sex for until 2-3 years after we get married"...? The love is more important than the sex, of course, but the guy expects to be able to express love through sex.

 

All this is within reason, of course. It doesn't mean a Chinese woman thinks you stop loving her or will stop loving you just because you got fired.

If you address her security concerns and make a clear, persistent effort to do what she wants to make her feel secure, you will retain her respect and love, even if you aren't always immediately successful.

 

Anyway, that's IMHO. Your mileage may vary.

[Mike and Yan]

BTW this is not a culture thing.

 

My daughter dates no man without a job. No other guy is welcome.

 

I'm not interested in prospects or blah blah blah.

 

It's part of growing up. No job?, you just are not marriage quality.

 

IMO

[Turbo SS1414]

UPDATE

 

I talked with her again today about it and mentioned everything you guys told me. She said she didnt think she would lose face at all. She still said it was hard to explain but said she thinks she cares about my needs more than hers and she knows finding a job is very important for me. She thought that if I came to visit her without a safe and secure job I might be really stressed out. Anyone have any input on this?

[HongKong2LA]

She sounds like a mature, level headed, caring girl...she sounds like one of the good ones. Go see her. Have fun in China...the food is awesome...hehe

[TLB]

so?

 

SOOOOOO?

 

Inquiring minds need an update!