a cultural thing or just rudeness?

[cguo7]

hi guys,

 

I've had a pretty rough day today. I'm a Chinese American female teaching in Nanchang, China. A female Chinese teacher yelled at me in a community teacher's office today when I went to get water. I used English to speak with her because my Mandarin is not so great under stress. She kept yelling in Chinese over and over again how I didn't greet her. She even said, "how can you, a Chinese person coming to "China - not know how to speak Chinese!" Her tone implied I was an idiot. That was the most Mandarin I could understand, I'm sure she said other things.

 

In the past, I had often come into get drinking water and have even tried to make conversation with the Chinese teachers in there, but usually I would get the cold shoulder, so I stopped saying hi and had no problems all semester, until today. They ignore me and I ignore them. (I think it may have to do with them being afraid of using English to communicate with me for fear of making a mistake, or they were taught not to get to close to foreigners.) I think she thought I was being rude by not saying anything. If she thought that, she could have used a normal tone of voice with me, but she yelled and screamed, which made me feel like I was listening to someone from the countryside.

 

There are prejudices against me because I look Chinese (both my parents are Chinese) but I don't "act" Chinese. Many of the Chinese have blurted this out to me. I was born and raised in the US and I came to China because I wanted to know more about my ancestry and heritage. I thought it would be a learning experience. Many of the Chinese people in my experience instantly judge me and reply with "but you're Chinese! How can you not understand!" when I do something they consider wrong, use the wrong vocabulary or body mannerisms to convey my thoughts.

 

I've been dealing with this sort of prejudice for the last 3 teaching semesters I've been in this city. I don't know if it's just the inhabitants of this city that are so unforgiving and judgemental, or in general many of the Chinese that are not open-minded enough to understand that not all foreigners have to be blonde haired and blue eyed. Also, just because I look Chinese doesn't instantly mean I know all the habits and customs, and just because I don't, it doesn't make me rude or stupid. Aarrgghhhh.

 

The Chinese people in China are not at all like the Chinese people I know in the US or in movies. It may seem naive for me to say this, but this has been an unexpected and difficult learning experience for me. Must I have all my pride squashed to pieces just to try and be more accommodating and understanding towards these people? Must I justify my reason for not understanding another Chinese person by telling them I'm Chinese American, only to have them say "no , you can't be, you look Chinese." At first, I didn't say much to people but now I find myself justifying my way of thinking and doing things to Chinese people all the time and I'm so very tired of doing this. I'm kind of stuck in the middle because my viewpoints and reactions are not familiar to the Chinese people here so they make jokes about it, but at the same time I can understand enough Mandarin to know when people are making fun of my Chinese pronounciations or the way I put words together, or even the way I do things.

 

I used to think I was open-minded but it's getting more and more difficult for me to tolerate these types of things that are said to me everyday(I am not exaggerating this). I stay because I am married to a wonderful Chinese man and if he is approved in May, it will give me a great sense of relief. He is pretty open-minded too and he does his best to understand, but still there are cultural differences that are hard for me to explain to him, so I'm venting here. I am disillusioned and depressed at the moment. I 'm just feeling sorry for myself, hehehe. Thank you all for taking the time to read this.

Edited April 21, 2009 by cguo7 (see edit history)

[Zhou Zhou]

I am sorry that you are experiencing this type of treatment...I have learned from traveling the planet that there are always a few envious people who take out their short-comings on the more helpless. I am a big guy and very Gringo looking so I am treated pretty well in the PRC. But I do get the fish eye and I'm sure folks make jokes behind my back, but I always try to smile and treat people cheerfully. I hope this person that harasses you will, get a life. And you can take some deep breaths...best of luck with the interview. ZZ

[warpedbored]

You not only have a place to vent, you give us an interesting perspective on Chinese. I have often noticed that Americans of Asian decent are frequently treated as foreign here in America. I never considered what it may be like for them to go Asia where their appearance fits in but their culture doesn't. When they tell you "you are Chinese, why can't you speak properlly" I would reply that, "no I am not Chiinese, I am American" and see what they say. Good luck and hopefully your ordeal will be over soon and you can bring hubby back to your homeland.

[Dennis143]

I wonder if the teacher felt she lost face by your silence in not greeting her. Possibly by her position she felt snubbed by someone in a lower position and she felt the need to scold you to gain her respect back in the eyes of her colleagues.

 

I would suggest that you get a translator to offer your apology to this woman in front of all the teachers. Tell them how you are ignorant of their ways and ask for their help. Ask for their help and guidance in learning about the culture that you lost and now seek to find.

 

It really is just a matter of communication and understanding each other. You went there to learn. This is really a great opportunity that's been laid at you feet to truly learn and understand. Hope it works out for you.

 

Good luck and keep your chin up.

[tonado]

Whenever you are away from the home surrounding, you should try to make friends even if it is difficult. The teacher who scolded you did go too far.

[Don]

hi guys,

 

I've had a pretty rough day today. I'm a Chinese American female teaching in Nanchang, China. A female Chinese teacher yelled at me in a community teacher's office today when I went to get water. I used English to speak with her because my Mandarin is not so great under stress. She kept yelling in Chinese over and over again how I didn't greet her. She even said, "how can you, a Chinese person coming to "China - not know how to speak Chinese!" Her tone implied I was an idiot. That was the most Mandarin I could understand, I'm sure she said other things.

 

In the past, I had often come into get drinking water and have even tried to make conversation with the Chinese teachers in there, but usually I would get the cold shoulder, so I stopped saying hi and had no problems all semester, until today. They ignore me and I ignore them. (I think it may have to do with them being afraid of using English to communicate with me for fear of making a mistake, or they were taught not to get to close to foreigners.) I think she thought I was being rude by not saying anything. If she thought that, she could have used a normal tone of voice with me, but she yelled and screamed, which made me feel like I was listening to someone from the countryside.

 

There are prejudices against me because I look Chinese (both my parents are Chinese) but I don't "act" Chinese. Many of the Chinese have blurted this out to me. I was born and raised in the US and I came to China because I wanted to know more about my ancestry and heritage. I thought it would be a learning experience. Many of the Chinese people in my experience instantly judge me and reply with "but you're Chinese! How can you not understand!" when I do something they consider wrong, use the wrong vocabulary or body mannerisms to convey my thoughts.

 

I've been dealing with this sort of prejudice for the last 3 teaching semesters I've been in this city. I don't know if it's just the inhabitants of this city that are so unforgiving and judgemental, or in general many of the Chinese that are not open-minded enough to understand that not all foreigners have to be blonde haired and blue eyed. Also, just because I look Chinese doesn't instantly mean I know all the habits and customs, and just because I don't, it doesn't make me rude or stupid. Aarrgghhhh.

 

The Chinese people in China are not at all like the Chinese people I know in the US or in movies. It may seem naive for me to say this, but this has been an unexpected and difficult learning experience for me. Must I have all my pride squashed to pieces just to try and be more accommodating and understanding towards these people? Must I justify my reason for not understanding another Chinese person by telling them I'm Chinese American, only to have them say "no , you can't be, you look Chinese." At first, I didn't say much to people but now I find myself justifying my way of thinking and doing things to Chinese people all the time and I'm so very tired of doing this. I'm kind of stuck in the middle because my viewpoints and reactions are not familiar to the Chinese people here so they make jokes about it, but at the same time I can understand enough Mandarin to know when people are making fun of my Chinese pronounciations or the way I put words together, or even the way I do things.

 

I used to think I was open-minded but it's getting more and more difficult for me to tolerate these types of things that are said to me everyday(I am not exaggerating this). I stay because I am married to a wonderful Chinese man and if he is approved in May, it will give me a great sense of relief. He is pretty open-minded too and he does his best to understand, but still there are cultural differences that are hard for me to explain to him, so I'm venting here. I am disillusioned and depressed at the moment. I 'm just feeling sorry for myself, hehehe. Thank you all for taking the time to read this.

 

 

 

China has been a very closed society for a long time. They do not understand their language mis- spoken. In America everyone mis-speaks English. We are used to many people using different versions of the language and speaking badly. In science we always say broken English is the international language of science. So most people can not understand you even if you speak Chinese slightly wrong. I know I have trouble with my wife; even if I speak Chinese slightly wrong (to me at least) she can not understand a word I say. So you will have a very hard time getting anyone else to understand you. Maybe if you were a student, it would be easier for the other teachers to accept you. You being a teacher and equal with them, they seem resentful. Sorry no real words of wisdon on how to help you, but keep trying. Your chinese will improve, and i doubt they will change.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Don (see edit history)

[cguo7]

Hi,

 

I've tried that too and they brush off my statement and still regard me as Chinese. I was born and raised in Southern California, where there are lots of Asian people, so I actually never felt like a foreigner, but here i just can't fit in, and i'm starting to think now that nor do I want to. Thanks for your well wishes

 

.

You not only have a place to vent, you give us an interesting perspective on Chinese. I have often noticed that Americans of Asian decent are frequently treated as foreign here in America. I never considered what it may be like for them to go Asia where their appearance fits in but their culture doesn't. When they tell you "you are Chinese, why can't you speak properlly" I would reply that, "no I am not Chiinese, I am American" and see what they say. Good luck and hopefully your ordeal will be over soon and you can bring hubby back to your homeland.

[timb]

My guess is they feel resentment. You are considered a banana, Yelllow on the outside, white on the inside. As a American teacher, you make more money then they do, but you do not understand the culture or are not true Chinese.

 

I could be wrong, but that's my guess.

 

 

 

Hi,

 

I've tried that too and they brush off my statement and still regard me as Chinese. I was born and raised in Southern California, where there are lots of Asian people, so I actually never felt like a foreigner, but here i just can't fit in, and i'm starting to think now that nor do I want to. Thanks for your well wishes

 

.

You not only have a place to vent, you give us an interesting perspective on Chinese. I have often noticed that Americans of Asian decent are frequently treated as foreign here in America. I never considered what it may be like for them to go Asia where their appearance fits in but their culture doesn't. When they tell you "you are Chinese, why can't you speak properlly" I would reply that, "no I am not Chiinese, I am American" and see what they say. Good luck and hopefully your ordeal will be over soon and you can bring hubby back to your homeland.

[Sebastian]

Time for gifting, I think so.. She yelled at you because somehow she lost face. You should give her a nice gift in front of her colleagues.

 

I saw this a lot when I lived in Guangzhou, at different levels. Maybe it's time to find a personal teacher (not your husband) to help you with this cultural problem.

 

Later, when I lived in Singapore, I had this explained to me from my ethnic Chinese workers. I'm basically nodding my head here, when I read your words, thinking , "Yup, that's how it all goes down".

[david_dawei]

Time for gifting, I think so.. She yelled at you because somehow she lost face. You should give her a nice gift in front of her colleagues.

 

I saw this a lot when I lived in Guangzhou, at different levels. Maybe it's time to find a personal teacher (not your husband) to help you with this cultural problem.

 

Later, when I lived in Singapore, I had this explained to me from my ethnic Chinese workers. I'm basically nodding my head here, when I read your words, thinking , "Yup, that's how it all goes down".

yes, my first gut reaction is it's mostly about guan xi (¹Øϵ)... or as some might say, 'games people play'...

 

China is clearly more 'group' oriented than the individualistic west. Some make this known in an 'in your face' manner; others might of let you get the message indirectly through another...

[IllinoisDave]

Sorry things are so uncomfortable for you.

 

Just my opinion based on human nature and not any special insight into Chinese culture. Do you bake? Cookies? Cake? I'd make something and take it to school with you and wait until there's a large group in the teacher's office, including your nemesis, and hand them out to everyone, starting with her.

 

But I wouldn't make a big deal of giving somthing just to her. Partly because she just doesn't deserve it after the way she treated you. She should be included by not singled out IMO. But also because it could be embarrassing for her to be singled out in front of everyone. Especially since you're not really sure what, it anything, you did to set her off.

 

Just a small gesture to get a feeling for whether they're even willing to warm up to you and give you a chance to fit in. If not, it's their loss.

 

Good luck.

[weiaijiayou]

your problem is rather unique on this forum, as the demands placed on you are somewhat higher than those placed on most other foreigners in china. moreover, you seem to have encountered people who aren¡¯t the best at conveying their expectations.

 

my own feeling is that a lot of the animosity from this teacher comes from the fact that you are speaking english with her. although she was out of line in scolding you, it seems to me that she has every right to expect you to use chinese when in china. if someone has to struggle to communicate, make mistakes, and be laughed at by insensitive people, it should be you (i.e., you and me) because you chose to go to china; she and your other colleagues didn¡¯t sign up for daily english practice. my advice is to 1. use chinese with them at all times. (i assume it is good enough to at least ask questions and make educated guesses at people¡¯s meanings when you don¡¯t understand). 2. at least say hello and ask a simple question every time you see them gathered in the community teachers room. if your chinese ability is not that good yet, you¡¯ll probably find it easier when you ask the questions and can therefore have more control over the conversation and at least some idea of the kinds of things they are likely to say (e.g., ×î½ü治棿). 3. don¡¯t ruminate over any backwardness that you encounter. it¡¯s their loss if they can¡¯t think beyond china, just as it¡¯s our loss if we can¡¯t think beyond the usa. when you¡¯re having a bad day do something fun with friends who understand you and are more ¡°worldly¡±

 

finally, as far as the language stuff goes, i can feel your pain, at least in a small way. my wife¡¯s family is from henan province, and they won¡¯t even speak putonghua with me, let alone english. according to gege, they feel funny hearing themselves speak putonghua, so i¡¯m expected to understand the colloquialisms and pronunciation of henan hua

 

don¡¯t give up. even though you said it's everyday, i imagine that some days you experience tons of issues like this, and other days are much smoother and more relaxed

[Joanne]

Hi cguo7,

 

I am a Chinese. I feel very sorry for you. It would be unbearable for me if the colleagues I work with are not friendly.

 

I don't know how your interact with them daily, but I got an impression from what you wrote that you ignored each other lately in the office. This is not normal. Since it would be pointless to tell them what to do, I suggest that you try to make a change yourself. Ask your boyfriend to teach you a few basic greeting words in Chinese, use them as often as possible. If you don't know what to say, simply smile. Your colleague will get to understand that you are making an effort to be friendly.

 

Forget about today's incident. It could be purely misunderstanding. You may find out later or it could stay as a mystery forever, doesn't matter. Wish you better days in future.

[lilac6451]

Hi Cguo7,

 

I feel sorry for what you have experienced in China.

 

Maybe part of what you feel is called Culture shock. I know how you feel when you are in a place where you are so unfamiliar with. Isnt what we, all Chinese moving to America, feel ? I figure it is not uncommon that while we are working with Americans, one time or another, we feel left behind, because the Americans tend to talk to Americans than to us Chinese.

 

Second, I dont know if you understand why that Chinese woman teacher is yelling at you. It doesnt make sense she just yelled at you out of no where. She must have talked to you, asked you something that she expected an answer, but you cant understand her,so you didnt, which she think you are arrogant, especially when you look so Chinese?

 

Anyway, I feel bad for your experience. But you can always do something to make things easier. For example, trying to begin talking with them, if they laugh at what or how you say Chinese, believe me, they are doing it in a good sense. Because if I tell you that when I am trying to teach my husband Chinese, he always almost choked me to death to listen to the Chinese he speaks, then you might believe me. They might laugh at you once, twice, three times.. but they will get it over sooner or later. Sometimes we should learn to have a thicker skin in order to blend into a different culture, right?

 

Good lucky

 

lilac

Edited April 22, 2009 by lilac6451 (see edit history)

[whutthapho]

You do not you need to become passive and apologetic and give in to such behavior. If you do, you're putting yourself in a weak position to be walked on.

 

You specifically mentioned "In the past, I had often come into get drinking water and have even tried to make conversation with the Chinese teachers in there, but usually I would get the cold shoulder, so I stopped saying hi and had no problems all semester, until today." Too bad another poster compeltely dismissed your perspecitive on the situation and suggested, perhaps you are thin skinned and arrogant (i.e. it's all your fault even though they never accepted you into their group).

 

It sounds to me that your approach, ignoring them was working for you but not for her/them. In fact, it was working so well for you, that it resulted in her outburst. Sounds like she wanted to change the dynamic. The impression you give is that you don't believe it's possible to establish a meaningful relationship with this person/group, since they haven't attempted to accept you into the group. So, my suggestion is to continue to ignore her. If she yells again, just maintain your composure and do not respond.

 

Stand your ground and don't concede until you receive a positive signals from the other party. Don't reward aggression.