lack of compassion for the crippled?

[Bert]

It's a different culture. In general, I can go anywhere I want in China and I have no fear of someone causing me harm. I can't say that in the US. The general population treats each other with more respect. However, there seems to be the notion that you don't help strangers. My fiancee makes me stand outside the food markets when she shops for food because she knows the vendors will jack up the prices when they see me. So, I was standing out there one day and this middle-aged woman comes riding up on her bicycle with a big pack on her back. As she was getting off the bicycle, she lost her balance. She managed to grab her bicycle and the one beside it to keep the row of bicycles from falling like dominoes, but she was about to lose control of the situation. As any normal American would do, I went over and helped the woman. My fiancee saw this. I got a scalding. I was told in no uncertain terms that I had better never, ever help anyone again. Furthermore, she told me not to even speak to anyone. It took so little effort on my part to help the woman. I never understood why she got so upset. Now, when it comes to family, you help, no questions asked.

 

I have seen sun-blackened quadriplegics writhing in the middle of a busy sidewalk on a hot fall day begging money. I've seen blind musicians playing for money. I have had many massages by the blind. I have seen a man with a bad leg hauling people around in his motorized, 3 wheel cart. I have seen people there earn money anyway they can. I don't see anything wrong with it. I sure it gives them a better feeling of self worth knowing they can make a living on their own. Many of them make more than high school graduates, perhaps even college graduates. I have tremendous respect for these people for not depending on the government for a handout, even though one is probably not available. Nobody sits around feeling sorry for themselves. Most likely because there is no one around to give them a handout. It's not a bad thing. True, there are people who truly cannot take care of themselves, and those need help.

[lostinblue]

Yan is from ChengDu and has said that after the earth quake. Management worked on collecting money for the survivors within the former company.Has this happened at your place of work after a natural disaster. The only thing we do here is blame Bush for every disaster.On the disabled issues life is hard in many parts of china . People realize many scams abound from people begging. I have seen it myself. Children begging for money and if you sit for a drink on the street you see them working other tourist and after getting money they run to maybe their mother to give her the change. Laughing all the while.

[Feathers268]

I got an interesting take from Jen tonight. She mentioned the fear that if you help someone who was hurt, when the police arrive, or when you get them to the Hospital, they will turn around and blame you for their injuries to get money out of you. Being American will only compound this issue.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

 

I don't think you looked hard enough. For everyone ont the median I see, every red light has at least 1 car that gives some money. It was so lucrative in Modesto, there were well known scamers that would sit there for 10 hours and then go to their car parked around the corner. Ive fixed washing machines in homeless shelters in SF, San Jose, and Oakland where there are more beds than residents. Usually people were only turned away for drugs, stealing, fighting, etc. Even the tent city here in Sacramento that Oprah made famous is the result of people who don't want to go to the shelter. By the way, it is over 10 years old as most there resist moving to where they can get help.

 

If you view the differences between China and the US while expecting a round peg to fit into a square hole, then perhaps you might develop a perception that the US way, is the ONLY way. I looked plenty hard at many cities in the US, saw many beggars, freeloaders, bag ladies, guys that look able to work, but stand at highway exits to collect a handout. I also have seen families who need help while hoping they could get a job, or find their way out of a financial dilemma. Rarely if ever did I see someone even acknowledge that some guy was staring in their car window hoping to get something. We all have our own reasons as to whether we offer money or other some sort of assistance, but to make an across the board statement the US people are more compassionate than Chinese people is just misinformed.

 

Also, attempting to use the large number of people that were killed or injured in the earthquake last year as an illustration of how the people and government are not working to make the country safer, is also misinformed. The US is just over 200 years old, with most of its growth happening in the last 100 years. Compare that to a country whose people have inhabited and lived for over 7000 years, and you may just get a glimmer of how an ancient culture is changing. But then again, I'm not holding my breath.

There is not one thing I said that makes America seem better than China. The political parties may use the homeless to beat each other over the head about who is more compasionate, but usuall, the people are as generous as possible. As for my perceptions of China, I can only base that on the few people I know. None are from the areas affected so they don't have feelings for the people there. Having experienced major earthquakes here in CA, I had a different reaction.

If there was any thing I would say about the earthquake, it shows the break neck speed that the Chinese are building and in some cases forgoing building standards in a earthquake zone.

 

Sorry about that Feathers. I did come off a little strong there....

 

I started by looking at the title of the thread: "Replying to lack of compassion for the crippled" and it sorta took over my thinking. How does one go about measuring the level of people's compassion? Is it by the money they donate? Whether they give to people on the street? Give of their own personal time to be of some sort of assistance? I'm sure these can be factored in, but I think taking in the bigger picture must be first.

 

When I suggested the scenario of fitting a round peg into a square hole, what I intended to communicate is vast differences in culture between the US and China. China is often lauded in the US media and compared on a one-to-one ratio with US social programs. In my view, American people have come to expect that when someone is in need, that the government should be there to help them out. There are programs out there, like welfare, food stamps, social security medicare, and so on. You hear the term "fixed income" tossed around a lot when it comes to people that are older or disabled whose entire existence is based upon these government programs.

 

China does have programs to help the poor and the hungry, but most of China's people have existed in poor villages for thousands of years. Many have somehow figured out how to get by on their own. Whether they are farmers, fishermen, street vendors, trash collectors, they seem to get by on so very little. Many of the things they do would never be allowed in the US, as there are strict laws about selling on the street and collecting garbage.

 

When you walk the streets of big-city China...you will likely see quite a few poor begging, and crippled people. Some of them somehow manage to find their way to high-traffic areas, lay out a blanket with a few trinkets, and set out a bowl for handouts. Some people drop money in, and many do not. It would be very difficult to say whether it happens less in China when compared to the US. Perhaps it's just when you see the hungry and poor face to face, it has more of an impact?

[whome?]

I got an interesting take from Jen tonight. She mentioned the fear that if you help someone who was hurt, when the police arrive, or when you get them to the Hospital, they will turn around and blame you for their injuries to get money out of you. Being American will only compound this issue.

 

This I agree with based on what my friends and wife have told me. however, as I tell them, the same to some degree is true in USA. you never know when you try to help someone that has been hurt in an accident when it may backfire on you or some lawyer convinces them you did more damage by helping rather than leaving them alone.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

 

Why does this sound VERY familiar?

 

It's just gone too far! It's one thing if someone disagrees and quite another to attack their family, citizenship, and values. A debate is one thing, but this is way, way, way out of bounds.

[warpedbored]

Calm down guys, every topic doesn't need to degenerate into an arguement or name calling. If the title of my thread comes across as "America good, China bad" then I am sorry. Those here who know me also know that isn't my attitude. Not everything in any country will please those who immigrate there. Some of our Chinese members have expressed dismay with a cuture that allows it's citizens to have guns. Not a day goes by you can pick up a newspaper and not read about a shooting. I was merely trying to gain some insight into why people can walk by someone that obviously needs some help and not give them a hand. The man in the street trying to get back to the sidewalk only needed a couple of people to put a hand under each arm and carry him two feet. I would have done it myself if I hadn't been on a moving bus.

[whome?]

Calm down guys, every topic doesn't need to degenerate into an arguement or name calling. If the title of my thread comes across as "America good, China bad" then I am sorry. Those here who know me also know that isn't my attitude. Not everything in any country will please those who immigrate there. Some of our Chinese members have expressed dismay with a cuture that allows it's citizens to have guns. Not a day goes by you can pick up a newspaper and not read about a shooting. I was merely trying to gain some insight into why people can walk by someone that obviously needs some help and not give them a hand. The man in the street trying to get back to the sidewalk only needed a couple of people to put a hand under each arm and carry him two feet. I would have done it myself if I hadn't been on a moving bus.

 

Was it a crippled person trying to cross the street or was it a crippled begger trying to get back to the sidewalk?

 

I only ask because my understanding (maybe it is wrong) is that many people feel the crippled beggers are faking the disability to get money.

 

I think it is a combination of culture that says: 1. do not get involved with situations that are result of bad luck 2. do not try to help because you made be blamed for the situation if you do and 3. be aware of people trying to scam you and take your money

[Feathers268]

 

I don't think you looked hard enough. For everyone ont the median I see, every red light has at least 1 car that gives some money. It was so lucrative in Modesto, there were well known scamers that would sit there for 10 hours and then go to their car parked around the corner. Ive fixed washing machines in homeless shelters in SF, San Jose, and Oakland where there are more beds than residents. Usually people were only turned away for drugs, stealing, fighting, etc. Even the tent city here in Sacramento that Oprah made famous is the result of people who don't want to go to the shelter. By the way, it is over 10 years old as most there resist moving to where they can get help.

 

If you view the differences between China and the US while expecting a round peg to fit into a square hole, then perhaps you might develop a perception that the US way, is the ONLY way. I looked plenty hard at many cities in the US, saw many beggars, freeloaders, bag ladies, guys that look able to work, but stand at highway exits to collect a handout. I also have seen families who need help while hoping they could get a job, or find their way out of a financial dilemma. Rarely if ever did I see someone even acknowledge that some guy was staring in their car window hoping to get something. We all have our own reasons as to whether we offer money or other some sort of assistance, but to make an across the board statement the US people are more compassionate than Chinese people is just misinformed.

 

Also, attempting to use the large number of people that were killed or injured in the earthquake last year as an illustration of how the people and government are not working to make the country safer, is also misinformed. The US is just over 200 years old, with most of its growth happening in the last 100 years. Compare that to a country whose people have inhabited and lived for over 7000 years, and you may just get a glimmer of how an ancient culture is changing. But then again, I'm not holding my breath.

There is not one thing I said that makes America seem better than China. The political parties may use the homeless to beat each other over the head about who is more compasionate, but usuall, the people are as generous as possible. As for my perceptions of China, I can only base that on the few people I know. None are from the areas affected so they don't have feelings for the people there. Having experienced major earthquakes here in CA, I had a different reaction.

If there was any thing I would say about the earthquake, it shows the break neck speed that the Chinese are building and in some cases forgoing building standards in a earthquake zone.

 

Sorry about that Feathers. I did come off a little strong there....

 

I started by looking at the title of the thread: "Replying to lack of compassion for the crippled" and it sorta took over my thinking. How does one go about measuring the level of people's compassion? Is it by the money they donate? Whether they give to people on the street? Give of their own personal time to be of some sort of assistance? I'm sure these can be factored in, but I think taking in the bigger picture must be first.

 

When I suggested the scenario of fitting a round peg into a square hole, what I intended to communicate is vast differences in culture between the US and China. China is often lauded in the US media and compared on a one-to-one ratio with US social programs. In my view, American people have come to expect that when someone is in need, that the government should be there to help them out. There are programs out there, like welfare, food stamps, social security medicare, and so on. You hear the term "fixed income" tossed around a lot when it comes to people that are older or disabled whose entire existence is based upon these government programs.

 

China does have programs to help the poor and the hungry, but most of China's people have existed in poor villages for thousands of years. Many have somehow figured out how to get by on their own. Whether they are farmers, fishermen, street vendors, trash collectors, they seem to get by on so very little. Many of the things they do would never be allowed in the US, as there are strict laws about selling on the street and collecting garbage.

 

When you walk the streets of big-city China...you will likely see quite a few poor begging, and crippled people. Some of them somehow manage to find their way to high-traffic areas, lay out a blanket with a few trinkets, and set out a bowl for handouts. Some people drop money in, and many do not. It would be very difficult to say whether it happens less in China when compared to the US. Perhaps it's just when you see the hungry and poor face to face, it has more of an impact?

No worries Jesse. Last night, I was letting some of the dietrib in TC bother me a little and put me in the mood to poke around a little at some of the other threads, hence the US bashing comment in the other thread. When it comes down to it, we all here have one of the most importaint things in common. We chose to find love in China.

Know this, I would never resort to personal atrtacks if my point is not seen by all, and nothing you said was taken in any other way than another side of a debate. I've seen and heard some of the cruelest things come from Americans before. As you said, Both countries have all kinds of people. We here on CFL are a cut above most, we steped out of our own world to look into another. In my case, by far the best thing I ever done.

[warpedbored]

Calm down guys, every topic doesn't need to degenerate into an arguement or name calling. If the title of my thread comes across as "America good, China bad" then I am sorry. Those here who know me also know that isn't my attitude. Not everything in any country will please those who immigrate there. Some of our Chinese members have expressed dismay with a cuture that allows it's citizens to have guns. Not a day goes by you can pick up a newspaper and not read about a shooting. I was merely trying to gain some insight into why people can walk by someone that obviously needs some help and not give them a hand. The man in the street trying to get back to the sidewalk only needed a couple of people to put a hand under each arm and carry him two feet. I would have done it myself if I hadn't been on a moving bus.

 

Was it a crippled person trying to cross the street or was it a crippled begger trying to get back to the sidewalk?

 

I only ask because my understanding (maybe it is wrong) is that many people feel the crippled beggers are faking the disability to get money.

 

I think it is a combination of culture that says: 1. do not get involved with situations that are result of bad luck 2. do not try to help because you made be blamed for the situation if you do and 3. be aware of people trying to scam you and take your money

He was a severely crippled man trying to get back on the sidewalk.

[griz326]

I don't believe the Chinese lack compassion even though I've seen plenty of situations like the ones described. I'm more inclined to believe the behavior that most of us do not understand stems from being raised to focus on your objectives; mind your own business; avoid situations that may have unintended consequences for you and yours. My wife is old enough to have lived through situations that we (at least a huge percentage of us) cannot imagine; I'm certain those experiences were life shaping and passed on to her daughter. It's the best that I can figure it.

 

As for Americans, we've got good ones and we've got bad ones but the ones who trouble me most are the lying, two-faced, fork-tongued, disingenuous ones. I'm sure that type is everywhere, but the USA sure has an abundance of them.

[warpedbored]

This thread has gotten out of hand with personal attacks. I went through it and trimmed a full page out. Take a second and read this quote from CFL's policies and guidelines before writing that post slamming other members.

 

•Differences of opinion and debate are supported. However, no personal attacks or attacks on any race, gender, or religion will be tolerated.

 

[whome?]

I don't believe the Chinese lack compassion even though I've seen plenty of situations like the ones described. I'm more inclined to believe the behavior that most of us do not understand stems from being raised to focus on your objectives; mind your own business; avoid situations that may have unintended consequences for you and yours. My wife is old enough to have lived through situations that we (at least a huge percentage of us) cannot imagine; I'm certain those experiences were life shaping and passed on to her daughter. It's the best that I can figure it.

 

As for Americans, we've got good ones and we've got bad ones but the ones who trouble me most are the lying, two-faced, fork-tongued, disingenuous ones. I'm sure that type is everywhere, but the USA sure has an abundance of them.

 

I agree .. they usually like to mind their own business.

[Dennis143]

During the famines that resulted from the Great Leap Forward's policies families had to rely on each other for help. This is where guanxi (relationships and connections) developed. If you couldn't scratch anothers back they wouldn't or couldn't scratch yours. It was simply a dog eat dog survival method that is now ingrained in their social psyche.

 

You can thank Chairman Mao for much of what you see today.

[david_dawei]

I think this is a grossly misunderstood cultural issue... we in the west are often wont to applyl morallism to many eastern situations.

 

I think the core principle is multi-faced; partly fear (as has been mentioned) and partly plain humanism; chinese culture does not get involved in other people's personal business. A begger should just find a job and work to better their own life; as the other 1 billion suffer to do. ³Ô¿à is a lifelong meal for some. Why should you give an easy meal to another while your's is bitter.

 

This goes way back to ancient times; not just Mao... who could care a less for ancient teachings, but where else did any idea 'flower' in him?

 

There is an ancient saying of, "why thank god... thank me", which comes from an old cosmological tale. Very humanistic.

 

Moral of the story is: each person is responsible for their actions.. sounds a bit like western existentialism... just thousands of years earlier.