Marc Ellis & John Roth

[jst]

I spoke to both attorneys for a good while. They both are smart and seem to know what they are talking about. Mr Roth is the attorney collecting horror stories. They both have very different approaches for their clients. Last friday I went to Mr. Roths website and clicked on the "SET UP CONFERENCE" section. It had different dates and times for the conference. It also let me pick the free consult ot the paid option. I chose the free option. I call him at the day and time and was immediatly connected to him.
As for both attorneys, they both have completly different approaches to filing paperwork and both ways make clear sense. Both reasons to do something or not to do something also make sense. The problem is they are both completly different. I am just looking for opinions. I will explain both conversations and you can see haw they think different.

Marc Ellis - I spoke to him about 10 days ago and he was in Vietnam and the phone call was very poor connection. We were disconnected several times. We finally gave up. I did get to talk to him for a while though and he was very helpful. He did not sugarcoat anything. He told me I may have some bumps in the road due to my previous marriage based on a K1 visa. He did say I will be able to overcome it.

We talked about front loading the application. He advises this so we do not give GUZ the opportunity to say they found something new previously not known before and than they can deny the visa. This makes sense. I would also agree with this.

I also asked him about us going to Hong Kong to get married and he thinks this is great. He thinks taking GUZ out of the picture completly is the best way to go. He did advise not to let HK know our reason for going to HK. If they know we went there to avoid GUZ, HK can send the app to GUZ or just deny it. This advise also makes good sense. He really seems to know what he is talking about and he really knows the problems at GUZ.

John Roth - I spoke to him for about 40 minutes in great detail about my case. He thinks I will have no problem about my past k1 visa marriage. I have a life long history of only dating asian ladies and this will not hurt my visa. I also think what he says makes sense. I can prove this history.

I spoke to him about front loading the application. He advises against this. His reasons also make sense. This is the second he and Marc are different. He feels that if you give USCIS to many things to look at here in the USA, they have a chance to RFE. Also he said they are experts and giving to much info is just asking for trouble. It gives them the chance to keep digging. Some how when he explains this I also agree. So now I agree with both sides and I am starting to get confussed.

The third issue is about getting married in Hong Kong. He strongly advises against this. He feels that this is something that people have just started doing to try and get around GUZ and he says there is not much evidence to support this yet. This makes sense to me. He says that it is consulate shopping and it is not allowed. If they think this than they WILL deny the visa and make us start over in GUZ. He says unless there is VERY strong evidence to go to HK and get married forget it. He says strong evidence would be that most of her family live in HK or either of us live there. He says it is just not normal for 2 people to go to HK and have a civil marriage alone especially when it is the girls first marriage. Most people would want to be married at home with friends and family. This makes sense. Most people would not go to HK unless there is something they are trying to avoid. So now I am even more confussed.

These are 2 very professional attorneys with a lot of experience and both are giving completly different advise.

I do believe Mr. Roth is very sincere about his quest to change the way things are done in GUZ. I spoke to him for a while about this and he really is doing this like PRO BONO. He is taking his own time to do this. I really don't think he is customer shopping here by doing this. When I spoke to him he had his next appointment and told me to take some time and think about what I want to do. He also told me to call back with any other questions. He did NOT try to sign me up or sell me his services in any way. He did just return from GUZ.

I guess after getting 2 different opinions I am just trying to see what other people think.

JS

[chilton747]

I had a failed K1. I used M.E. We did the CR1 and frontloaded. My wife was asked 3 easy questions and then received the IR1 visa. This was my personal experience with M.E.

[Randy W]

 

Marc Ellis - . . . . .He told me I may have some bumps in the road due to my previous marriage based on a K1 visa. He did say I will be able to overcome it.

What's a bump? It may catch their eye, it may or may not work against you. Be careful about focusing too heavily on this - your primary concern is the present relationship.

 

We talked about front loading the application. He advises this so we do not give GUZ the opportunity to say they found something new previously not known before and than they can deny the visa.

This claim is overblown and largely mis-interpreted. Evidence front-loaded is evidence in hand that can be used against you. The VO will decide whether to pass or fail, and then choose the reasons.

 

Use the front-loading to paint the picture that you want them to see, and for the VO to have in hand BEFORE the interview. This is the only opportunity you have to do this.

 

I also asked him about us going to Hong Kong to get married and he thinks this is great. He thinks taking GUZ out of the picture completly is the best way to go. He did advise not to let HK know our reason for going to HK. If they know we went there to avoid GUZ, HK can send the app to GUZ or just deny it. This advise also makes good sense. He really seems to know what he is talking about and he really knows the problems at GUZ.

 

John Roth - I spoke to him for about 40 minutes in great detail about my case. He thinks I will have no problem about my past k1 visa marriage. I have a life long history of only dating asian ladies and this will not hurt my visa. I also think what he says makes sense. I can prove this history.

 

I spoke to him about front loading the application. He advises against this. His reasons also make sense. This is the second he and Marc are different. He feels that if you give USCIS to many things to look at here in the USA, they have a chance to RFE. Also he said they are experts and giving to much info is just asking for trouble. It gives them the chance to keep digging.

Keep this in mind when you prepare your application. You want to paint a pretty picture of a bonafide relationship, without providing ammunition they can use against you.

 

The third issue is about getting married in Hong Kong. He strongly advises against this. He feels that this is something that people have just started doing to try and get around GUZ and he says there is not much evidence to support this yet. This makes sense to me. He says that it is consulate shopping and it is not allowed. If they think this than they WILL deny the visa and make us start over in GUZ. He says unless there is VERY strong evidence to go to HK and get married forget it. He says strong evidence would be that most of her family live in HK or either of us live there. He says it is just not normal for 2 people to go to HK and have a civil marriage alone especially when it is the girls first marriage. Most people would want to be married at home with friends and family.

Do your homework here. We have seen several people get married there - I believe all passed. The law specifically provides for you to get married where you want, and have the interview at that consulate. Mr. Roth is trying to tell you how a VO thinks. That's bullshit. You can get that kind of thing for free here. The law is on your side, the VO may not be, but Mr. Roth does not know.

 

Hong Kong has always (since the first person who went there) been considered a far friendlier environment by this board than GUZ is.

[Randy W]

Here is the first HK marriage that I remember

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=177206

[georgeandli]

jst, Thanks for the update. Unasked I say #1 has been through the ringer. #2 I'm not sure that I would agree about not front loading the petition. Would it not be better to front load versus getting a RFE and slowing the petition ?

[LeeFisher3]

Marc Ellis's approach has been more successful based on what has been going on in GUZ and with the number of white slips being issued his method provides a proactive approach to success, not a guarantee.

 

Getting married in HK is a method of interviewing in a much friendlier environment. While you don't rub their nose in it, using their own rules to avoid GUZ is not a bad idea if you're willing to only allow the case to follow the K-3 process.

 

I do understand John Roth's concern about front loading the petition and I'd take his concern about the USCIS to heart as the information provided in front loading needs to be well prepared. Everything you want to cover needs to be addressed carefully without opening new avenues for them to follow, but presents a true picture of the situation. It helps to remove options from GUZ's denial machine.

 

With what can only be described as open hostility toward family related petitions by GUZ that has been occurring I'd do whatever you can to remove options from them and Marc Ellis's approach does that. Getting married in HK and following the K-3 path removes GUZ from the picture as well.

 

If I was in your shoes I'd prefer to take my chances with the USCIS reviewing the full picture of your situation rather than wait for GUZ to have their Perry Mason moment and decide to kick the petition back to the USCIS.

 

The other question I'd ask is who is currently having success in GUZ, both are obviously having success with the USCIS so it comes down to who is able to help pry a visa out of GUZ with the least amount of pain.

 

Both will tell you that the visa office in GUZ is a broken system full of hostility toward your case. John Roth is trying to present a case to DOS to get them to fix the system and Marc Ellis is working with what is available to help people get a visa in spite of the mess that is currently going on.

 

Two different approaches, which one fits your need?

[NewDay2006]

I had a failed K1. I used M.E. We did the CR1 and frontloaded. My wife was asked 3 easy questions and then received the IR1 visa. This was my personal experience with M.E.

I didn't have a failed K1, just a quick breakup of a marriage and I ended up marrying again 1 month after my divorce was final to the K1(A Big Red Flag according to Marc Ellis) ... I didn't use an attorney when filing my CR1.

 

I briefly explained my past brief marriage situation in my CR1 petition at the suggestion of a former CFL member and I beleive this was my biggest mistake, considering Chilton747's and another former member in a similar situation front loaded and didn't have to wait the 19 months I had to wait for a P2(NOA2) 19 months.

 

Once I got my P2, my petition sailed through the process. When I sent information to Guz, I gave a very detailed letter of my prior marriage to a Chinese woman. When interview time rolled around they only asked my wife a few questions and she got the visa.

[chilton747]

I had a failed K1. I used M.E. We did the CR1 and frontloaded. My wife was asked 3 easy questions and then received the IR1 visa. This was my personal experience with M.E.

I didn't have a failed K1, just a quick breakup of a marriage and I ended up marrying again 1 month after my divorce was final to the K1(A Big Red Flag according to Marc Ellis) ... I didn't use an attorney when filing my CR1.

 

I briefly explained my past brief marriage situation in my CR1 petition at the suggestion of a former CFL member and I beleive this was my biggest mistake, considering Chilton747's and another former member in a similar situation front loaded and didn't have to wait the 19 months I had to wait for a P2(NOA2) 19 months.

 

Once I got my P2, my petition sailed through the process. When I sent information to Guz, I gave a very detailed letter of my prior marriage to a Chinese woman. When interview time rolled around they only asked my wife a few questions and she got the visa.

 

Also to add to this, I had an 8 month wait on a P2. M.E. said this was because of a backlog. I tend to believe it was because of the extensive front loading caused the USCIS to want and see the denial from GZ that took 18 months to get back to the states. The timing was perfect for this. This 8 month wait for the P2 also netted us an IR1 visa. Sometimes waiting is good.