A Former Consular Officer Speaks Out

[IllinoisDave]

When I applied to USCIS, I had no idea the drama of the Consulates, I thought passing USICS was the Visa, with a complimentary interview of my fiancee. I was under the impression that unless something substantial

showed up at the interview in China, the visa was a done deal. Why doesn't the US Government, tell people up front of this BS from the Consulates. Go look for fraud on Wall Street.

They could make the argument that it's also up to the petitioner to do his/her homework before filing such an important document.

[MikeXiao]

Deny all applications filed by couples that cannot hold a basic conversation with each other in a common language. Legitimate couples will learn to communicate with each other and can reapply at that time.

 

I don't know if I agree with this one, not totally anyway. Too much grey area for the VO to say what a "basic" conversation is. If the couple communicates, through various means, like electronic translators, sign language, pictures etc. , they are making a real effort to understand each other, then they are communicating. A sham couple can learn enough of each others language to put on a show, but a true couple will exhaust all avenues available to communicate.

[rogerinca]

Well, exactly! I'm always amazed when people here tell someone that you only need to make the minimum required (125% over the poverty line) - that above that amount makes no difference, when it's been obvious in more than a few cases that money made a difference.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I choked on my cup of tea, just now, while reading this !!!!!

 

I feel this is so true, and I think this is more of a significant factor in success or failure, than some really understand.

[heyjimi]

I have a different take on it......the guy is trying to pat himself on the back !!!!!

good job.....well done......look,even he pointed out it isnt easy....the real scammers are two steps ahead of these guys.They know how to play the game.sure they catch a few bad guys,in the end they hurt too many innocent guys,and this justifies catching a few bad guys? Hmmm !!!!.

Red flags? anything can be a red flag at this point.....it really doesn't get to the issue of the couple really is a bonafide relationship or not.

it was like when i was growing up in the 70's and i had long hair...and so everybody assumed i did drugs(i didn't) ........because i had long hair.....red flag ....drug addict!!!!!!!

i mean come on folks !!!!!!!!!the article is PR campagne to make them look good !!!

The immigration has a bad track record he is trying to make them look good....."hey we are all concerned.....we are all trying to do our job",even pulled a a naive american aside to tell him"his girl is scamming him"(of course later this naive american told him....yup!!! he was right. how concerned he "vo" was !!!!!!! Do you really beleive these "vos" give two shits? Riiiiiiiiiigggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhtttttttt !!!!!!! sorry ,i aint buying it.

 

jimi

[heyjimi]

Something I thought interesting, was the acknowledgment that the US citizens income plays a role. It is assumed that if you make a good amount of money you are not likely to voluntarily participate in visa fraud.

 

 

Well, exactly! I'm always amazed when people here tell someone that you only need to make the minimum required (125% over the poverty line) - that above that amount makes no difference, when it's been obvious in more than a few cases that money made a difference

 

 

Another interesting thing was the length of time you have had a passport is a factor. I would never have thought of this, and I don't think anyone else has ever mentioned it, but it makes sense.

 

I think there are MANY flags implied or specifically stated in this long article, that may be of interest.

 

Finally, my favorite part of this article was the fact that it is NOT the VO trying to cause the USC pain. He acknowledges that it sometimes happens, but his focus is to stop the obvious fraud cases.

In some cases he even took the USC aside to explain. This has never happened (to my knowledge) in GUZ, but wouldn't that be awesome !

 

In fact, there is a memo from a GUZ officer that "You can't tell that to the petitioner" (that his case may be fraudulent)

 

 

Money always makes a difference !!!!!

[HKG]

It is a PR letter at best, A spin as it is called when someone tries to say day is night, white is black. If people are to be so miserably cheated with a non-bonafide denial, they should discontinue the K1, but it makes money for DOS the Petition, the Visa appointment somewhere over $600.00 per applicant. Fly the US flag upside down on the problem with non-bonafide.

[tsap seui]

It is a PR letter at best, A spin as it is called when someone tries to say day is night, white is black. If people are to be so miserably cheated with a non-bonafide denial, they should discontinue the K1, but it makes money for DOS the Petition, the Visa appointment somewhere over $600.00 per applicant. Fly the US flag upside down on the problem with non-bonafide.

 

You state it very well HKG. As a matter of fact my american flag that I was so proud of got lowered to half mast, then it crept it's way down, over the many months we waited in blue slip hell, to where it got frozen in the mud...finally a Mexican migrant worker took it upon himself to break it free from the mud and he threw it into the dumpster...IMAGINE THAT How f'ing fitting, I tells ya.

 

As far as rogerinca saying it's about the money...that's a joke, in my book. My 3 year financials had one year where I paid $75,00 just in taxes, and another year that I made $84,000 in profit after taxes.

 

What some people who were nothin more than "lucky" and they think just because they filled out the simple paperwork, that they made a difference don't realize is....any single person you see who got a pink slip, could have just as easily gotten a white or a blue slip...even rogerinca.

 

It's all about luck. Anything else you see written from "some" pink slippers is nothing more than speculation, arrogance, and conjecture.

 

Funny isn't it...it was speculation, arrogance, and conjecture from the bastards in GUZ that got most of us in trouble to begin with...guilty until proven innocent...oh but we aren't gonna let you prove yourself innocent. And we certainly aren't gonna tell you what we felt was wrong...cause WE DON'T have to,

 

In a few short hours I'm gonna make the trip back down to the "shitty" as I call metro Washington, DC and early tomorrow morning I'm gonna start the journey to Chinertucky to see my woman, get married, and enjoy our brand new house with all its new furnishings.

 

For us, the white slip only made our lives richer...and in 2011 that "bronzed" white slip is gonna get shoved up some idiot from the DOS's ass...SIDEWAYS. Heck, I get to live in China for a few months totally on Uncle Scam's dollar.

 

Good luck white and blue slippers...you CAN turn it around to your benefit.

 

tsap seui

Edited February 19, 2009 by tsap seui (see edit history)

[IllinoisDave]

Why make it a "pink guys" vs "blue and white guys" thing? Of course those of us who got pink can't feel what the blue and white folks feel, but we can still empathize and offer our opinions based on accumulated knowledge we've gained here. We read the same stories and debriefs that everyone else reads. We know potential red flags when we see 'em, whether we had them or not.

 

As for it all being a matter of luck? I'll grant there's luck involved when it comes to whether or not someone gets one of the "bad" VOs or gets one who happens to be in a bad mood that day. But it's not all just luck. When someone says that they thought passing USICS was getting the visa or that making it to GUZ made the visa a foregone conclusion it's clear that preparation CAN have something to do with getting a visa or not.

 

It's a damn shame that people in that position didn't find Candle sooner. But they didn't and now they're dealing with what to do next. And I think the more information offered here, the better to help not only them, but others who come along who may be in a position to avoid some of the issues that may have caused others' problems. Whether it's from someone who got pink, blue or white seems immaterial IMHO.

[tsap seui]

Why make it a "pink guys" vs "blue and white guys" thing? Of course those of us who got pink can't feel what the blue and white folks feel, but we can still empathize and offer our opinions based on accumulated knowledge we've gained here. We read the same stories and debriefs that everyone else reads. We know potential red flags when we see 'em, whether we had them or not.

 

As for it all being a matter of luck? I'll grant there's luck involved when it comes to whether or not someone gets one of the "bad" VOs or gets one who happens to be in a bad mood that day. But it's not all just luck. When someone says that they thought passing USICS was getting the visa or that making it to GUZ made the visa a foregone conclusion it's clear that preparation CAN have something to do with getting a visa or not.

 

It's a damn shame that people in that position didn't find Candle sooner. But they didn't and now they're dealing with what to do next. And I think the more information offered here, the better to help not only them, but others who come along who may be in a position to avoid some of the issues that may have caused others' problems. Whether it's from someone who got pink, blue or white seems immaterial IMHO.

 

 

Dave, it wasn't my point to make it us against them, that was the reason I had edited my post to include the word...."some" pink slippers..... It is about a family here, yet we do have some that are sorta smug about their success, and he posted in this very thread.

 

The thing really is, it's the Chinese workers behind the scenes that come up with the redflags which the VO's quickly go over and make their minds up. Those VO's beat up the women that the Chinese workers said had red flags for whatever. A Chinese woman would have to REALLY blow her interview to have her denial not planned out ahead of time.

 

Those clowns called VO's have no time to properly look over a case, they just get fed speculation and conjecture from someone we'll never see and the VO plays into the dastardly lil' game and arrogantly forks over blues and whites.

 

Our VO was a total bitch to my woman and her 11 year old son from the time they both walked up to her window and with smiles said, "Hello...Good morning"..now, just HOW could those words have pissed off anyone enough to act like a total ass?

 

Any single man on here could have just as easily have gotten blue or white...BAR NONE.

 

I say GUZ is luck..fueled by speculation, arrogance, and conjecture. Many pink slippers on here just were lucky that the Chinese workers didn't pop a red flag on their case, where as the Chinese worker beside of them did to someone else.

 

I'm certainly not jealous off anyone who got pink, and most of my posts have been congratulating them. Hell, I'm getting to go live a few months in China...on Uncle Scam's dollar, then like most everyone else, we'll get our visas in early 2011. We'll come back to america, as a couple who have been married two years and known each other almost 5 years, and get to see it with the same eyes, as I'm sure she's gonna have some changes...mother america, that is.

 

Peace all you bubbas, I'm laughing all the way to Chinertucky to start excitin' adventures.

 

tsap seui

[splinterman]

Why make it a "pink guys" vs "blue and white guys" thing? Of course those of us who got pink can't feel what the blue and white folks feel, but we can still empathize and offer our opinions based on accumulated knowledge we've gained here. We read the same stories and debriefs that everyone else reads. We know potential red flags when we see 'em, whether we had them or not.

 

As for it all being a matter of luck? I'll grant there's luck involved when it comes to whether or not someone gets one of the "bad" VOs or gets one who happens to be in a bad mood that day. But it's not all just luck. When someone says that they thought passing USICS was getting the visa or that making it to GUZ made the visa a foregone conclusion it's clear that preparation CAN have something to do with getting a visa or not.

 

It's a damn shame that people in that position didn't find Candle sooner. But they didn't and now they're dealing with what to do next. And I think the more information offered here, the better to help not only them, but others who come along who may be in a position to avoid some of the issues that may have caused others' problems. Whether it's from someone who got pink, blue or white seems immaterial IMHO.

 

 

Dave, I think luck has more to do with it than any other single factor. It's no secret that nobody really knows the things that GUZ considers essential in deciding what elements tip the scale for a blue, white or pink. I also offer that many of us who have been 'awarded' the blue or white tend to believe, rightly or wrongly we'll never know, just HOW subjective the process is. But there really isn't any question to it that the process IS subjective, right?

 

We've all read the accounts of how the reputation of one VO over another seems to be known as a factor in an interview's outcome. The 'Black Pearl', as we've come to know her, has a fierce reputation of being notoriously hard on the girls and it's overly difficult in getting anything other than a white slip out of her.

 

The subjectivity comes into play when what one VO zeros in on as important shows up in another interview as being almost negligible in importance. Maybe you can explain this by saying that each case is different, but then wouldn't the so-called standards be applied equitably? There seems to be a tremendous amount of lee-way that exists in the interview/visa award process and I think it boils down to just which particular VO is assigned to which cases.

 

Tsap is right in that it is most likely the Chinese workers who do the footwork for the VOs. If GUZ is as incredibly busy as they say they are, there is no way in Hell that the VOs can do all of the background and investigatory work while still conducting the interviews and reading and updating all the files. I think the Chinese workers employ a list of things that probably trigger notations marked in red in the file and when the beneficiary appears at the window for her interview, these are the things that the VO keys in on when he/she opens the folder. Don't you think that certain Chinese workers prefer to work with certain VOs? They all work together side-by-side and have probably been there together for quite a while, so they have probably established a rapport based on personalities. If the Chinese worker can't really find anything wrong with a file to give it a 'thumbs down' but tells the VO that something is not quite right, then the VO can entrap the beneficiary by asking certain questions in a certain way to get responses that will allow 'justification' for a INA 221(g) denial.

 

No, I think when the beneficiary walks up to that window her fate has already been decided. Be it something definite in the file, something perceived by the Chinese worker or just the luck of which VO the girl drew, any one or a combination of these things will be the difference in which color slip she's going to get. After months of effort to obtain the necessary documents/exhibits, money spent on trips to obtain the police certificate, passport, health exam, etc., it all plays out in a 10 minute 'interrogation' that will determine just what happens for the next several years of the couple's life.

 

The process in GUZ is too arbitrary and the VOs have become too powerful because they've not been held to the laws, regulations, policy letters, etc. that they are supposed to be using to determine approval/disapproval. The question to ask our congressional representatives is WHY? Why have they allowed Guangzhou to deviate from law and become rogue?

 

And then next comes, "What are you going to do about it, as my ELECTED representative?". Let's see how much LUCK they're willing to chance in THEIR next election campaign!

 

Splinterman

[HKG]

 

 

 

 

The thing really is, it's the Chinese workers behind the scenes that come up with the redflags which the VO's quickly go over and make their minds up. Those VO's beat up the women that the Chinese workers said had red flags for whatever. A Chinese woman would have to REALLY blow her interview to have her denial not planned out ahead of time.

 

 

 

 

tsap seui

My friend did tell me a Chinese women asked her for money, before the interview, this women did say she worked at the Consulate. No money no visa, is what my girl was told. In a letter from my fiancee to

GUZ she mentioned this encounter. I have the women who did ask for

money, her name.

Edited February 19, 2009 by HKG (see edit history)

[tsap seui]

 

 

 

 

The thing really is, it's the Chinese workers behind the scenes that come up with the redflags which the VO's quickly go over and make their minds up. Those VO's beat up the women that the Chinese workers said had red flags for whatever. A Chinese woman would have to REALLY blow her interview to have her denial not planned out ahead of time.

 

 

 

 

tsap seui

My friend did tell me a Chinese women asked her for money, before the interview, this women did say she worked at the Consulate. No money no visa, is what my girl was told. In a letter from my fiancee to

GUZ she mentioned this encounter. I have the women who did ask for

money, her name.

 

That woman was clearly a rip off. This guy I mention in another thread doesn't ask for up front money. If he doesn't produce, you don't pay. He deals primarily with blue slips. If you get a white slip or your blue slip has gone too high he can't help you as your records are too "official" and the Chinese workers can't " change" them.

 

tsap seui

[rogerinca]

 

......As far as rogerinca saying it's about the money...that's a joke, in my book. My 3 year financials had one year where I paid $75,00 just in taxes, and another year that I made $84,000 in profit after taxes......

tsap seui

 

 

I have understood for many, many, months now, that your "book" is not from the same publishing house as 'my' book.

[HKG]

 

 

 

 

The thing really is, it's the Chinese workers behind the scenes that come up with the redflags which the VO's quickly go over and make their minds up. Those VO's beat up the women that the Chinese workers said had red flags for whatever. A Chinese woman would have to REALLY blow her interview to have her denial not planned out ahead of time.

 

 

 

 

tsap seui

My friend did tell me a Chinese women asked her for money, before the interview, this women did say she worked at the Consulate. No money no visa, is what my girl was told. In a letter from my fiancee to

GUZ she mentioned this encounter. I have the women who did ask for

money, her name.

 

That woman was clearly a rip off. This guy I mention in another thread doesn't ask for up front money. If he doesn't produce, you don't pay. He deals primarily with blue slips. If you get a white slip or your blue slip has gone too high he can't help you as your records are too "official" and the Chinese workers can't " change" them.

 

tsap seui

This attempt was before the interview, it makes sense to me when I read your thread about Chinese workers behind the scenes and not having read your thread about that guy. Maybe still it was just a ripoff

attempt.

Edited February 19, 2009 by HKG (see edit history)

[tsap seui]

 

......As far as rogerinca saying it's about the money...that's a joke, in my book. My 3 year financials had one year where I paid $75,00 just in taxes, and another year that I made $84,000 in profit after taxes......

tsap seui

 

 

I have understood for many, many, months now, that your "book" is not from the same publishing house as 'my' book.

 

I like that comparison, it was really funny, and ain't it the truth bubba.?

 

My book is a true story and yore book is a novel. B)

 

Good luck with yore AOS.

 

tsap seui