rogerluli Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 On December 8 a group of 300 intellectuals, lawyers, writers and scholars published a bold online manifesto in China. They asked for an end to rule by the CCP and greater civil rights for citizens... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle5451728.ece Link to comment
IllinoisDave Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Can I answer yes to both? Link to comment
rogerluli Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Can I answer yes to both? Take a stand Dave... Link to comment
GZBILL Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 On December 8 a group of 300 intellectuals, lawyers, writers and scholars published a bold online manifesto in China. They asked for an end to rule by the CCP and greater civil rights for citizens... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle5451728.ece And people in hell ask for ice water. Link to comment
rogerluli Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 On December 8 a group of 300 intellectuals, lawyers, writers and scholars published a bold online manifesto in China. They asked for an end to rule by the CCP and greater civil rights for citizens... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle5451728.ece And people in hell ask for ice water. You're such a cynic Bill... Were you like that before or has living in China done it??? Link to comment
IllinoisDave Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Can I answer yes to both? Take a stand Dave... Okay...door #1. Link to comment
Guest ShaQuaNew Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) Neither. The "Option 1" agenda, assumes that democracy and human rights are somehow intertwined. The "Option 2" agenda, assumes that unless Option 1 is selected, that all is well in China. I choose the unavailable Option 3. As Bill stated, those living in Hell are requesting ice water. Maybe Hell will freeze over and there will no longer be requests for cold cubes. Edited January 7, 2009 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history) Link to comment
Guest jin979 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 to tell you truth china has many things better than usa, usa appears to like controls many more things in life. Link to comment
rogerluli Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 to tell you truth china has many things better than usa, usa appears to like controls many more things in life. I agree with you in many ways Jin...The infrastructure in China is superior in airports, railroads, etc....And the US does control a lot of what people do here BUT... "The Bill of Rights protects freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the freedom of assembly, the freedom to petition, and freedom of the press. It also prohibits unreasonable search and seizure, cruel and unusual punishment, and compelled self-incrimination. The Bill of Rights also prohibits Congress from making any law respecting establishment of religion and prohibits the federal government from depriving any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law. In federal criminal cases, it requires indictment by grand jury for any capital or "infamous crime", guarantees a speedy public trial with an impartial jury composed of members of the state or judicial district in which the crime occurred, and prohibits double jeopardy. In addition, the Bill of Rights states that "the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people,"[3] and reserves all powers not granted to the federal government to the citizenry or States."Wikipedia I still prefer having these rights to the right "to get rich"... And in my reading of what goes on in China I can confidently say that Chinese people possess NONE of the rights in our own Bill of Rights... Link to comment
Dennis143 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 I still prefer having these rights to the right "to get rich"... And in my reading of what goes on in China I can confidently say that Chinese people possess NONE of the rights in our own Bill of Rights... Why oh why do you hate China so, Roger? Link to comment
rogerluli Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 I still prefer having these rights to the right "to get rich"... And in my reading of what goes on in China I can confidently say that Chinese people possess NONE of the rights in our own Bill of Rights... Why oh why do you hate China so, Roger? It's merely that I love the Chinese people much more than some concept of China...I think that after they get rich they will DEMAND greater freedoms and rights... Link to comment
rogerluli Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Lawyer demands that Chinese government open its books BEIJING: A high-profile Chinese lawyer demanded Wednesday that the government open its books to the public, in an unusually direct display of the legal activism that the Communist Party sees as a growing threat to its rule. Yan Yiming, an attorney who has made his reputation taking on companies that misled investors, presented an application to the Finance Ministry headquarters demanding that it publish details of its 2008 expenditures and 2009 budget. China's ruling Communist Party discloses only the barest outline of its spending plans to a submissive Parliament every year. Yan wants the government to live up to pledges of transparency and accountability, especially with so much of the nation's faltering economic fortunes now resting on state spending plans. "If the government does not have a reasonable way of explaining and doing things, then the lack of trust and dissatisfaction in society will build up," Yan said. "And if the buildup continues, there could be an explosion." Academics have called for greater transparency in government, but such a pointed demand from a top-flight corporate lawyer is extremely rare. The challenge by Yan may be another symptom of rising public rancor as the economy slows and unemployment increases. Already, laid-off workers have staged a series of protests outside shuttered firms, dissidents have launched a "Charter 08" petition campaign calling for democratic reforms and officials have warned of the risk of spreading unrest. Yan's submission to the Finance Ministry was a typed, four-page document that laid out his demands and his reasoning, drawing on well-worn phrases from Chinese leaders' speeches. "Our government must exercise its power in the open sunlight," he wrote. "As our President Hu Jintao has expressed, the government must be extremely clean in serving the people." In a second application, Yan also requested that the National Development and Reform Commission, China's top economic planning body, open to public scrutiny its management of the 4 trillion yuan, or $585.5 billion, economic stimulus package recently unveiled by Beijing. His challenges will test landmark access-to-information rules that came into effect last year. The regulations, the first of their kind in China, require that governments disclose information about issues affecting the public interest in a bid to combat rampant corruption and discourage cover-ups enabled by often secretive decision-making. Yan said the ministry accepted his application without objection and that it was bound by law to reply within 15 days. If his application fails, he said he may file a lawsuit against the ministry, something that no one has ever attempted. Yan conceded that his challenges stood little chance of immediate success but said that attracting public attention through Chinese media was also an important objective. "People will ask themselves, should this information be open or not? When public consciousness reaches a certain level, the government will take notice," he said. http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/07/asia/lawyer.php Link to comment
IllinoisDave Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 I still prefer having these rights to the right "to get rich"... B) And in my reading of what goes on in China I can confidently say that Chinese people possess NONE of the rights in our own Bill of Rights... Why oh why do you hate China so, Roger? Is hating the system that denies the Chinese people many of the rights we take for granted hating China? No more I think than hating a system that forces many of our elderly to choose between buying medicine or buying groceries hating America. Link to comment
Richard & Li Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Many good points... I also could not vote. I do not see China as a place where people are denied basic human rights. I do not see China as a place that should/can not improve and progress. Link to comment
rogerluli Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 The thing about what we see in China is that walking around with your wife you don't really see very much... People can go along living their lives and seemingly have very few issues or problems with their government...UNTIL...An earthquake kills their child in a sub-standard classroom...Their baby is poisoned by other's greed...Their farmland is confiscated for a new factory and while they receive very little compensation, the local cadre is driving a new Audi A6L...They lose their job...They develop a serious illness and cannot afford the medical care they need... The implicit relationship between the governement and the people in China is that the government promises the people the means to better themselves financially...The people give the government carte blanche to run the place as they want...When the first one is falling apart is the second going out soon as well... B) Link to comment
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