Validity of PRC Driver License in USA

[rogerinca]

Sometime last year, a discussion ensued in this forum, with respect to a citizen of the PRC, who was visiting in the US (and more specifically in California) and wanted to drive a car during their visit, either for tourism or business.

 

At that time, I had done some research in the CVC which did not reveal any reference to not recognizing the driver license from the foreign jurisdiction, nor any reference to an International DL, which would not be applicable to the PRC anyway, as they were not a signature to the international convention, back in the late 40’s and/or early 50’s.

 

In this regard, and just as an FYI, there was a recent addition to the California Drivers Handbook, which is produced by the state DMV, as a quick reference to driver license and registration regulations in the state. On page #2 of the pamphlet it now states the following, which is very clear:

 

 

Adults Visiting California

 

Visitors over 18 years old with

a valid driver license from their

home state or country may drive in

California without getting a driver

license as long as their home license remains valid.

[bob&haiqing]

Hey Roger,

 

And I thought the freeways in California were crazy before ... watch out

 

Accelerator, horn, accelerator, horn, accelerator, horn

 

Enjoy your weekend,

Bob

[2mike&jin]

Sometime last year, a discussion ensued in this forum, with respect to a citizen of the PRC, who was visiting in the US (and more specifically in California) and wanted to drive a car during their visit, either for tourism or business.

 

At that time, I had done some research in the CVC which did not reveal any reference to not recognizing the driver license from the foreign jurisdiction, nor any reference to an International DL, which would not be applicable to the PRC anyway, as they were not a signature to the international convention, back in the late 40¡¯s and/or early 50¡¯s.

 

It is my understanding that "China" did not attend the 1948 Convention, but did attend the 1968 convention. When viewing the countries which recognize the International Driving Permit or International Drivers License, China is listed along with 191 others.

 

When I went to China - most people and most of what I read said the an IDL, IDP or US - State Drivers license was of no Value in China. But, with the US state license - they will give you a 6 year CHinese License. Now the reverse!

 

I have talked to the DMV in Nevada, and they essentially say the same thing as your quote for California - if you are visiting you can use your "home country" drivers license. The problem -- is that for any country that does not use roman characters , i.e China, noone can read the license in the US which makes it unusable in any quarter. However, any number of "online" Internationa Drivers....XXXX, places will make you a nice booklet, with a quasi drivers license to be used in conjuction with your (in this case) CHinese drivers license. The theory being that you can prove that you have a drivers license, and that it can be read by someone in the US, etc etc.

 

So, after all my reading - and talking to different people with different opinions - we (1) Both obtained International Drivers License's based on our CHinese drivers license - with the appropriate translations, (2) We plan on only using it/them until we can get the proper US documents to get her a US drivers license.

 

So far, I used it today to buy her new car with - and they wanted ID etc - and they accepted it - without question. This however, was not an irate Police Officer - but the friendly Mercedes Dealer.

 

Nevada - says the IDL with CHinese original is good for visitors - similar to California. Problem - what is a visitor? When does a K1 or k3 become a "Non Visitor" -- my take on this (my position) is that we must get a US drivers license when immigration gives us DOCUMENTS that will allow her to obtain a US drivers license. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

I spent some time researching this -- often getting different answers and of course opinions from different people. I think the subject is sufficiently "cloudy" that the above logical approach may hold up. I have yet to call my Insurance company and broach the subject but that will occur in on the day the car is delivered. That should be interesting!

 

Regards, Hawaii Mike

[Randy W]

Sometime last year, a discussion ensued in this forum, with respect to a citizen of the PRC, who was visiting in the US (and more specifically in California) and wanted to drive a car during their visit, either for tourism or business.

 

At that time, I had done some research in the CVC which did not reveal any reference to not recognizing the driver license from the foreign jurisdiction, nor any reference to an International DL, which would not be applicable to the PRC anyway, as they were not a signature to the international convention, back in the late 40¡¯s and/or early 50¡¯s.

 

In this regard, and just as an FYI, there was a recent addition to the California Drivers Handbook, which is produced by the state DMV, as a quick reference to driver license and registration regulations in the state. On page #2 of the pamphlet it now states the following, which is very clear:

 

 

Adults Visiting California

 

Visitors over 18 years old with

a valid driver license from their

home state or country may drive in

California without getting a driver

license as long as their home license remains valid.

 

 

The phrase I've highlighted would bother me - a) it's not clear that the word "country" would include China (the quote is a simple statement of what would obviously be a more complicated law)

 

The authorities would have no way of verifying with the home country that the license was actually valid.

 

And, of course, very few here would be able to read it.

 

I think the IDL is a great idea, if one can be obtained here, or study up for the state DL if your residency status allows it

[Guest Rob & Jin]

drove on a "international" license when I first got here- no problem

[rogerinca]

Sometime last year, a discussion ensued in this forum, with respect to a citizen of the PRC, who was visiting in the US (and more specifically in California) and wanted to drive a car during their visit, either for tourism or business.

 

At that time, I had done some research in the CVC which did not reveal any reference to not recognizing the driver license from the foreign jurisdiction, nor any reference to an International DL, which would not be applicable to the PRC anyway, as they were not a signature to the international convention, back in the late 40¡¯s and/or early 50¡¯s.

 

In this regard, and just as an FYI, there was a recent addition to the California Drivers Handbook, which is produced by the state DMV, as a quick reference to driver license and registration regulations in the state. On page #2 of the pamphlet it now states the following, which is very clear:

 

 

Adults Visiting California

 

Visitors over 18 years old with

a valid driver license from their

home state or country may drive in

California without getting a driver

license as long as their home license remains valid.

 

 

The phrase I've highlighted would bother me - a) it's not clear that the word "country" would include China (the quote is a simple statement of what would obviously be a more complicated law)

 

The authorities would have no way of verifying with the home country that the license was actually valid.

 

And, of course, very few here would be able to read it.

 

I think the IDL is a great idea, if one can be obtained here, or study up for the state DL if your residency status allows it

 

 

The focus here was on an adult foreign 'visitor' to the state of California.

 

I cannot speak for other US states and their laws and regulations; however, if you have a valid license from a foreign jurisdiction, be it another US state, or another country, then you can legally drive, here in the state of California, while in the possession of your home jurisdiction license. That was my only purpose in the post, as an FYI for those who will visit the great CA, and may wish to drive while here.

 

Validity would be determined by the date of expiration on the license; which is not that hard for a trained observer to figure out, be it a license from the PRC, Russia, India, nor any other non-English speaking nation. Moreover, they would most likely be in possession of their passport and USA visitor or business visa, to support other documentation. Herein, common sense would prevail.

 

Again, the quote which I posted is taken directly from the most current DMV Driver Handbook and it directly reflects and is consistent with the law as outlined in the CVC. That specific section is not as complicated as many others within the code, and has only a couple of exceptions.

 

The only significant exception in CA law with respect to another state/country driver license, is for a foreign driver under the age of 18.

 

There are so many foreign visitors to this state, both for business and tourism, that the system would quickly break down if the law were drafted in any other manner.

[Randy W]

 

The focus here was on an adult foreign 'visitor' to the state of California.

 

I cannot speak for other US states and their laws and regulations; however, if you have a valid license from a foreign jurisdiction, be it another US state, or another country, then you can legally drive, here in the state of California, while in the possession of your home jurisdiction license. That was my only purpose in the post, as an FYI for those who will visit the great CA, and may wish to drive while here.

 

Validity would be determined by the date of expiration on the license; which is not that hard for a trained observer to figure out, be it a license from the PRC, Russia, India, nor any other non-English speaking nation. Moreover, they would most likely be in possession of their passport and USA visitor or business visa, to support other documentation. Herein, common sense would prevail.

 

Again, the quote which I posted is taken directly from the most current DMV Driver Handbook and it directly reflects and is consistent with the law as outlined in the CVC. That specific section is not as complicated as many others within the code, and has only a couple of exceptions.

 

The only significant exception in CA law with respect to another state/country driver license, is for a foreign driver under the age of 18.

 

There are so many foreign visitors to this state, both for business and tourism, that the system would quickly break down if the law were drafted in any other manner.

 

 

Yes, it does say that in a number of places that seem to apply to ALL countries, although they do not mention China specifically. I will take your word for it.

 

The Texas Dept of Motor Vehicles says this

If you possess a foreign driver license, are between the ages of 18 and 75, and are now in Texas for an extended period or permanently, the state will recognize your license for up to one year following your arrival. This only applies for foreign nationals of countries that have reciprocity with the United States¨Din other words, countries that offer a similar privilege to U.S. citizens who are in their nation.

This seems more in line with what I expected.

[Randy W]

Also, Roger, look up the law regarding residents. Isn't it that you need a state license within 30 days?

[rogerinca]

Also, Roger, look up the law regarding residents. Isn't it that you need a state license within 30 days?

 

 

Randy, it is 30 days for registering ones vehicle.

 

With respect to the DL, you have 10 days to obtain the license, having established residency. The exception is if you are going to drive for hire within the state after becoming a resident, then there is no grace period and you must be licensed immediately.

 

That aspect has been law for over 30 years in California.

[Randy W]

Also, Roger, look up the law regarding residents. Isn't it that you need a state license within 30 days?

 

 

Randy, it is 30 days for registering ones vehicle.

 

With respect to the DL, you have 10 days to obtain the license, having established residency. The exception is if you are going to drive for hire within the state after becoming a resident, then there is no grace period and you must be licensed immediately.

 

That aspect has been law for over 30 years in California.

 

 

. . . and doesn't that (resident) mean ALL of our spouses? Aren't they referring just to whether you LIVE here (and not just visiting), instead of your immigration status?

 

Sorry - just trying to pin this down

[rogerinca]

Also, Roger, look up the law regarding residents. Isn't it that you need a state license within 30 days?

 

 

Randy, it is 30 days for registering ones vehicle.

 

With respect to the DL, you have 10 days to obtain the license, having established residency. The exception is if you are going to drive for hire within the state after becoming a resident, then there is no grace period and you must be licensed immediately.

 

That aspect has been law for over 30 years in California.

 

 

. . . and doesn't that (resident) mean ALL of our spouses? Aren't they referring just to whether you LIVE here (and not just visiting), instead of your immigration status?

 

Sorry - just trying to pin this down

 

 

Yes, residency is residency, regardless of ones immigration status, legal or otherwise.

 

If my Lao Po wishes to drive in CA now, she will have to obtain a CDL immediately, as she has been a resident since POE time of June 6th. She is not a visitor.

 

However, they have tightened the rules here now and she must first have her SSN to apply for a CDL.

[Randy W]

Also, Roger, look up the law regarding residents. Isn't it that you need a state license within 30 days?

 

 

Randy, it is 30 days for registering ones vehicle.

 

With respect to the DL, you have 10 days to obtain the license, having established residency. The exception is if you are going to drive for hire within the state after becoming a resident, then there is no grace period and you must be licensed immediately.

 

That aspect has been law for over 30 years in California.

 

 

. . . and doesn't that (resident) mean ALL of our spouses? Aren't they referring just to whether you LIVE here (and not just visiting), instead of your immigration status?

 

Sorry - just trying to pin this down

 

 

Yes, residency is residency, regardless of ones immigration status, legal or otherwise.

 

If my Lao Po wishes to drive in CA now, she will have to obtain a CDL immediately, as she has been a resident since POE time of June 6th. She is not a visitor.

 

However, they have tightened the rules here now and she must first have her SSN to apply for a CDL.

 

OK - thanks for the clarification, Roger.

[Toplaw]

Randy, that is the same part of the statute I referred to in an earlier post. The reciprocity part is the key.

 

The reciprocity statute in question lists China (RC). So someone who comes to Texas from China (RC) can drive for a year on their China (RC) license. That is vague and ambiguous to me, and we aren't supposed to be prosecuted if we violate a vague and ambiguous statute. Well, at least we have a legitimate defense.

 

The Republic of China claims that both mainland China and Taiwan are part of it. If the statute had been intended to apply only to Taiwan, it could easily have been written that way. It also doesn't exclude PRC, which could have been done if that was the intent.

 

So I still posit that there is an arguable legal position that someone with a PRC driver's license can legally drive in Texas for up to one year. No question that they must know and obey the rules of the road, and by the time they learn them, they might as well get a Texas driver's license, so the issue might be almost moot.

[Randy W]

Randy, that is the same part of the statute I referred to in an earlier post. The reciprocity part is the key.

 

The reciprocity statute in question lists China (RC). So someone who comes to Texas from China (RC) can drive for a year on their China (RC) license. That is vague and ambiguous to me, and we aren't supposed to be prosecuted if we violate a vague and ambiguous statute. Well, at least we have a legitimate defense.

 

The Republic of China claims that both mainland China and Taiwan are part of it. If the statute had been intended to apply only to Taiwan, it could easily have been written that way. It also doesn't exclude PRC, which could have been done if that was the intent.

 

So I still posit that there is an arguable legal position that someone with a PRC driver's license can legally drive in Texas for up to one year. No question that they must know and obey the rules of the road, and by the time they learn them, they might as well get a Texas driver's license, so the issue might be almost moot.

 

 

I think you'd be hard pressed to make that claim (ROC vs PRC) stick, much less get insurance for such a driver.

[Toplaw]

That's how laws are made. A statute is a law, but no one knows for sure what it means. People test the meaning of statutes. Judges interpret the statute. Lower courts sometimes disagree. The state supreme court can then get involved and declare the meaning. Then we know the law.

 

The statute doesn't say ROC or PRC. It says China. In parenthesis beside China it says (RC). I actually think it is a pretty strong argument that RC includes mainland China and Taiwan, though I don't intend to test it. Someone from China is covered, without question. The state would have to argue it means Taiwan, but if that is true, why doesn't it say Taiwan, not China.

 

I have been in front of trial judges for too many years, and I know that the initial answer to this question if the statute were tested could just as easily go one way as the other. It could turn on whether the trial judge is a historian or a literalist. I could see many judges saying, look counsel, it says China and that is how I am going to apply the law. It doesn't say Taiwan, end of story.

 

And what result with a jury trial?