Buddhism and Christianity

[izus]

First of all this is only my opinion and I¡¯m sure I¡¯m going to get thrown to the dogs again for stating my beliefs among so many non believers. But oh well the Bible says I will be persecuted for my love in Jesus.

I believe one of the big issues why Christianity always get the bad name is everybody is grouped together. Not only that but the roots come from the Jewish people who have ties with the Muslims 1000¡¯s of years ago who I just can not understand their thinking no matter what¡­.. That¡¯s a completely different thread.

 

Anyways the Baptists are mixed in with the Methodists and the Methodists are mixed in with the Catholics and so on and so forth. Every Christian religion is so worried who is right and who is wrong they forget about what it means to be a Christian to begin with.Going to Church every Sunday doesn't mean your a Christian.

If everyone would just realize, that living like Jesus or as close to Jesus Christ as physically possible is key to happiness and contentment. People strive all their lives to make money and to be successful and it¡¯s never enough. They always feel there is something else that they need. But with Christ, it¡¯s all that is needed. He fills the empty space.

 

Now with that said,

I¡¯m not sure on how many variations of Buddhist beliefs there are.

Correct me if I am wrong but a Buddhist believes you continually reincarnate over and over until you become enlightened. Then you go to a place called nirvana. Is that right?

And in order to become enlightened what do you have to do.

Follow 4 steps of some sorts¡­

Are there other basic beliefs like that, that differ?

 

Ok

So far other than the reincarnation part it sounds a lot like what I believe.

 

I¡¯m not saying reincarnation doesn¡¯t exist. I believe there is so much of the spiritual realm around us we have not even scratched the surface. I¡¯ve seen programs on discovery concerning these ideals and they were pretty convincing. But the ones that usually have any recall of past lives they have lived had some type of massive death too early or something odd happened when they died. There is so much we don¡¯t understand as humans you cant just knock something as a nice story or a myth.

 

the one big difference between the 2 religions revolves obviously on the cultures and how outspoken the western people are in their thinking in the way they are always right whether it is towards not believing in any higher power at all or believing in Jesus Christ. I¡¯ve seen one as loud as the other.

It will be interesting to see how the Chinese Religions evolve in the next 50 years if religion is able to be continually be practiced, don¡¯t forget religion for so many years was hidden in the back rooms of homes only practiced within families. So they are not going to be that outspoken to begin with.

 

 

Chinese thinking however is based around respect and i think they are very aware of others feelings or at least my wife¡¯s family is.

My mother in law practices Buddhism and she has her prayer area in the corner of her home. It¡¯s set up with her candles, red cloth, her Buddha statue, incense and so forth.

She was very concerned about offending my mom and dad when my parents came over with us. So she covered it up. She knew that my parents were devout Christians maybe not offending them but she just didn¡¯t want them to feel uncomfortable. I told my parents and my mom made a point to tell her how beautiful her prayer area was and had her remove the cloth she had covered it up with.

 

Now I¡¯m not saying my mom is rude but when her parents came to my parent¡¯s home. Do you think they covered up the big picture of Jesus that hangs in the dining room.. of course not, the thought didn¡¯t even occur to her. So the thinking is completely different.

But if you get right down to the roots of beliefs, I believe they are very similar.

Sure the Christian says unless you believe in Christ you wont go on to heaven.

Who says nirvana and heaven are not the same place.

Who says the Buddhist who finally reaches the state of Nirvana when he dies doesn¡¯t walk past Christ into heaven.

Who says the person who lived a great life and never had the opportunity to know who Christ was during their life, passes by Jesus when they die and immediately understands who their maker is.

 

We don¡¯t know.

I¡¯m sure glad I don¡¯t have to make these decisions.

Edited October 30, 2008 by izus (see edit history)

[Jeikun]

 

 

I tend to see western religions and philosophies as different in that the former is based on belief and ritual; eastern religions and philosophies are sometimes simply considered one and the same since there is often no deity involved, so 'belief' is moot; so, think of religion/philosophy rather as 'teachings'.

 

 

 

But the "teachings" are teaching you to believe in something, yes? Belief may not be the word you are searching for. A philosophy or religion does not have to be based on a deity in order to require belief. If you are taught something in which you trust to be truth, then you are exercising belief. In absence of empirical evidence, you could even go so far as to call it faith. I don't see the distinction that you are attempting to describe in this instance.

 

Also, diverging a bit... what is your opinion of the merging of Platonic philosophy with Christianity? It's my experience that the two have become so meshed that most Christians don't even realize that a large portion of modern Christian belief is based as much on Plato as on the Bible.

Edited October 30, 2008 by Jeikun (see edit history)

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

 

 

I tend to see western religions and philosophies as different in that the former is based on belief and ritual; eastern religions and philosophies are sometimes simply considered one and the same since there is often no deity involved, so 'belief' is moot; so, think of religion/philosophy rather as 'teachings'.

 

 

 

But the "teachings" are teaching you to believe in something, yes? Belief may not be the word you are searching for. A philosophy or religion does not have to be based on a deity in order to require belief. If you are taught something in which you trust to be truth, then you are exercising belief. In absence of empirical evidence, you could even go so far as to call it faith. I don't see the distinction that you are attempting to describe in this instance.

 

Also, diverging a bit... what is your opinion of the merging of Platonic philosophy with Christianity? It's my experience that the two have become so meshed that most Christians don't even realize that a large portion of modern Christian belief is based as much on Plato as on the Bible.

 

Very astute observations Jeikun. One thing I think it important to bring up when comparing "Christianity" and Eastern philosophies, is that it would be problematic to include all Christians and their belief system into one category; that being Christians. Many Christians even go so far as to say that other Christian groups that fail to believe as they do are members of a cult, and will likely go to hell. Out of the millions of Christians in the world, there is so much variation as to how to interpret the bible, that it be extremely complicated to explain it.

 

Simplifying it can lead to mis-categorization, and even misunderstanding seemingly subtle differences. Okay, perhaps you could say that Christianity is deity based, in that believers, by faith, worship their God. Just exactly what that God is, and expects of his people, is where everything gets muddled.

 

Some Christians believe that it's God's will, that they not interact with the "world"; the world being defined as people who do not believe and live as they do. The Amish and the Mennonite for example. Underlying faith and belief, there is a philosophy, but some even believe that they have a personal connection to God, in that God talks to them and tells them what to do.

[david_dawei]

 

 

I tend to see western religions and philosophies as different in that the former is based on belief and ritual; eastern religions and philosophies are sometimes simply considered one and the same since there is often no deity involved, so 'belief' is moot; so, think of religion/philosophy rather as 'teachings'.

 

 

 

But the "teachings" are teaching you to believe in something, yes? Belief may not be the word you are searching for. A philosophy or religion does not have to be based on a deity in order to require belief. If you are taught something in which you trust to be truth, then you are exercising belief. In absence of empirical evidence, you could even go so far as to call it faith. I don't see the distinction that you are attempting to describe in this instance.

 

Also, diverging a bit... what is your opinion of the merging of Platonic philosophy with Christianity? It's my experience that the two have become so meshed that most Christians don't even realize that a large portion of modern Christian belief is based as much on Plato as on the Bible.

Bingo...and double Bingo !!

 

My point is mainly that the chinese call it "teachings" but in fact, I would agree that is it teaching them some faith or belief in the teaching; but I would then be willing to lump in our scientific teaching to be in part belief too.

 

In my opinion, chinese 'believe' strongly in their 'way'... and the emphasis would be on the latter thought, philosophically since from ancient times they are following a 'way'.

 

To your second part... I would also agree strongly... I spent too many years in extremely conservative circles to see this greek influence. In the end, I gave up the greek influence and went after the hebrew origin and influence... and began to follow the teachings of "Hebrew Christianity"... this opened my eyes up more than anything else... and turned me to the dark side

[Stepbrow]

Here are some random thoughts.

 

I don't think that the Greek influence in the "Western Way" ( world view) is fully understood.

 

As Dave mentioned, in the West our thinking tends to be linear (left brained), and in the East thinking tends to be circular (right brained), maybe a better word is holistic. Eastern thought is more geared to understanding how everything relates, and how it is connected than getting to the point. (my thoughts)

 

Two big concepts in Greek thought are the quest for understanding through reasoned discourse or thought, and the application of logical principles. The Greeks used these concepts to seek the Truth in all things: Ethics, Science, Mathematics, etc.

 

The Greek influence dominates the Western World View.

 

We see this Greek influence in Christianity. Christ says "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light. "The Golden Rule",The Bible is the True word of God. The search for the Holy Grail is the search for the Truth. Etc.

 

If we look at most aspects of Western civilization we see very strong Greek influences. Religion, Government, Science, Law, Ethics, and Morality. In essence, we are Greek by our world view. Have you ever said "Get to the point?" If you did you were being Greek.

 

Have you ever wondered why great thinkers and spiritual teachers speak to us so cryptically?

 

"Know Thyself" Socrates.

"The way that can be described is not the way" Laozi

"Fear is the path to the Dark Side" Master Yoda

 

How can one understand the light if one does not understand the dark? Me.

 

Dave I have a question: You say "And meditation seems to have also be something which evolved in Zen; the early master's didn't seem to hold it as importantly" Are you speaking of early Buddhist masters? I ask this because I always thought that from the beginning Buddhism was about meditation. Buddha became enlightened after meditating for 39 days under the Bodhi tree. The Eight Noble Truth is Samadhi.

I am not being critical, just trying to understand what you meant.

 

I wish I could continue my thoughts here, but I have worn myself out. Just getting old. I will try to pick the thread back up when I am fresh.

[IllinoisDave]

First of all this is only my opinion and I抦 sure I抦 going to get thrown to the dogs again for stating my beliefs among so many non believers. But oh well the Bible says I will be persecuted for my love in Jesus.

I believe one of the big issues why Christianity always get the bad name is everybody is grouped together. Not only that but the roots come from the Jewish people who have ties with the Muslims 1000抯 of years ago who I just can not understand their thinking no matter what?. That抯 a completely different thread.

 

Anyways the Baptists are mixed in with the Methodists and the Methodists are mixed in with the Catholics and so on and so forth. Every Christian religion is so worried who is right and who is wrong they forget about what it means to be a Christian to begin with.Going to Church every Sunday doesn't mean your a Christian.

If everyone would just realize, that living like Jesus or as close to Jesus Christ as physically possible is key to happiness and contentment. People strive all their lives to make money and to be successful and it抯 never enough. They always feel there is something else that they need. But with Christ, it抯 all that is needed. He fills the empty space.

 

Now with that said,

I抦 not sure on how many variations of Buddhist beliefs there are.

Correct me if I am wrong but a Buddhist believes you continually reincarnate over and over until you become enlightened. Then you go to a place called nirvana. Is that right?

And in order to become enlightened what do you have to do.

Follow 4 steps of some sorts?Are there other basic beliefs like that, that differ?

 

Ok

So far other than the reincarnation part it sounds a lot like what I believe.

 

I抦 not saying reincarnation doesn抰 exist. I believe there is so much of the spiritual realm around us we have not even scratched the surface. I抳e seen programs on discovery concerning these ideals and they were pretty convincing. But the ones that usually have any recall of past lives they have lived had some type of massive death too early or something odd happened when they died. There is so much we don抰 understand as humans you cant just knock something as a nice story or a myth.

 

the one big difference between the 2 religions revolves obviously on the cultures and how outspoken the western people are in their thinking in the way they are always right whether it is towards not believing in any higher power at all or believing in Jesus Christ. I抳e seen one as loud as the other.

It will be interesting to see how the Chinese Religions evolve in the next 50 years if religion is able to be continually be practiced, don抰 forget religion for so many years was hidden in the back rooms of homes only practiced within families. So they are not going to be that outspoken to begin with.

 

 

Chinese thinking however is based around respect and i think they are very aware of others feelings or at least my wife抯 family is.

My mother in law practices Buddhism and she has her prayer area in the corner of her home. It抯 set up with her candles, red cloth, her Buddha statue, incense and so forth.

She was very concerned about offending my mom and dad when my parents came over with us. So she covered it up. She knew that my parents were devout Christians maybe not offending them but she just didn抰 want them to feel uncomfortable. I told my parents and my mom made a point to tell her how beautiful her prayer area was and had her remove the cloth she had covered it up with.

 

Now I抦 not saying my mom is rude but when her parents came to my parent抯 home. Do you think they covered up the big picture of Jesus that hangs in the dining room.. of course not, the thought didn抰 even occur to her. So the thinking is completely different.

But if you get right down to the roots of beliefs, I believe they are very similar.

Sure the Christian says unless you believe in Christ you wont go on to heaven.

Who says nirvana and heaven are not the same place.

Who says the Buddhist who finally reaches the state of Nirvana when he dies doesn抰 walk past Christ into heaven.

Who says the person who lived a great life and never had the opportunity to know who Christ was during their life, passes by Jesus when they die and immediately understands who their maker is.

 

We don抰 know.

I抦 sure glad I don抰 have to make these decisions.

Interesting post Bill. And I mean that. As an "outside observer" to the various religions and their practices, I have to say from my experience that the reaction of the respective mothers in your life is very telling. Many of your comments reflect what I've noticed.

 

Your mother-in-law seemed to mirror what I've noticed about Chinese and the way they treat life in general, not just religion. For the most part (there are always exceptions to a rule ) they seem to go out of their way to not push their beliefs/ideologies onto other people. I'd go so far as to say that they'd be just as happy going through life without anyone else knowing what their particular religious belief is. This is reflected, along with simple consideration and respect, in mother-in-laws's reluctance to have your parents even see her prayer area.

 

When it comes to your mother, first let me say that I thought it was very understanding and human of her to request that your mother-in-law uncover her prayer area. Not every person of a different faith would do that IMHO. But your mother also had no problem leaving the picture of her particular religious symbol for all to see. Not a criticism, just an observation that points out Christians' (and some other religions) willingness to let others know just where they stand and which messiah/prophet/savior they happen to stand with.

 

The two are pretty good examples of what I believe is one of the things that most separates Chinese and American thinking when it comes to religion. In the East, just talking about something so personal, let alone prosthelytizing or trying to convert others, is avoided religiously (pun intended ). In the West many people of religion have, for the most part, no such reluctance. In fact some see it as a requirement as part of their faith. I wouldn't include your mother in that group by the way.

 

Just a non-believer's two cents.

Edited November 1, 2008 by IllinoisDave (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

I don't think that the Greek influence in the "Western Way" ( world view) is fully understood.

I'm glad someone shared the greek influence... the dividing further and further to seek some more basic structure is readily seen... Finding what is behind each element or atom, as an example. A desire to divide life up more and more... till holistic ideas are non-existent.... the baby is thrown out with the bath water...

 

As the west seeks truth, as if it's something going forward to find, the east (particularly china) looks backwards for truth; history holds the truth.

 

Dave I have a question: You say "And meditation seems to have also be something which evolved in Zen; the early master's didn't seem to hold it as importantly" Are you speaking of early Buddhist masters? I ask this because I always thought that from the beginning Buddhism was about meditation. Buddha became enlightened after meditating for 39 days under the Bodhi tree. The Eight Noble Truth is Samadhi.

I am not being critical, just trying to understand what you meant.

 

I wish I could continue my thoughts here, but I have worn myself out. Just getting old. I will try to pick the thread back up when I am fresh.

Buddhism has always been about meditation and still is. When Buddhism entered China it took a decided turn (messed with Taoism and chinese pragmatism) and is often called either Chinese Buddhism or Zen Buddhism. It appears to me that the early ZEN Masters made a subtle break from the role of meditation as seen in this story:

"A Zen master saw a monk meditating and asked him what he was doing. He replied that he was trying to become a Buddha. The zen master then picked up a rock and started rubbing it against a bolder. The monk asked him what he was doing. The master replied that he was trying to grind a mirror."

 

Here are some comments I wrote Another Forum:

"The history of Zen traces back to the teachings of Bodhidharma who arrived in Southern China from Southern India around 520 AD. At the time of his entry, he taught a particular form of Buddhism well established in India and had been previously taught in China by visiting Buddhists.

 

Bodhidharma, the first Patriarch of Zen Buddhism (also credited with teaching the shaolin monks breathing techniques which would develop into Shaolin Kung fu), was well versed in the sutras popular in India (for the Mahayana school, the two important texts were the Lankavatara and the Diamond Sutra). He had a strong belief in the style of teaching that would become the hallmark of Zen: ¡®instantaneous¡¯ enlightenment through realization not discourse. "

 

And he famously wrote:

¡°A special transmission outside the sutras;

No reliance upon words or letters;

Direct point to the very mind;

Seeing into one¡¯s own nature.¡±

 

So, while meditation was used in early Zen, the role it was expected to play does not seem as important as in Buddhism in general and later Zen Buddhism, where in Japan meditation takes on an important role.

 

For the early Zen masters, they developed a theory of shifting the role of meditation of emptying one's mind with having 'Faith in the Mind' (which I might simply explain as a faith in the mind's ability to get one back to their inner self where ego and desire are not in control of us).

 

You can read two early Zen Classics here:

Faith-Mind Inscription written by Zen 3rd Patriarch, Seng-ts'an

Hsin-hsin Ming (Wade-Giles) [commonly seen in this spelling]

Xinxin Ming (Pinyin) Xin4xin1 Ming2

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/zen/fm/fm.htm

 

The Platform Sutra written by Zen 6th Partriarch, Hui Neng

http://www.angelfire.com/realm/bodhisattva...form-sutra.html

[HaoRan]

Christianity: I believe are 'detached' from their 'religion'. That is, the belief if they believe in Jesus they are saved and that's pretty much it. My Devout Christian friends drink heavily and understand little about the control things like greed, lust, etc so I see this as being detatched from their religion.

 

Buddhism: I believe are more into the mechanics of their religion and that only they can save themselves through their own practice.

 

I prefer to think of Spirituality on an energetic plane. If you follow observances you will build more spiritual energy and if you don't or "sin" you will lose. This approach takes the "religion" out of spiritualality and thus it's pure. IMO.

[david_dawei]

Christianity: I believe are 'detached' from their 'religion'. That is, the belief if they believe in Jesus they are saved and that's pretty much it. My Devout Christian friends drink heavily and understand little about the control things like greed, lust, etc so I see this as being detatched from their religion.

 

Buddhism: I believe are more into the mechanics of their religion and that only they can save themselves through their own practice.

 

I prefer to think of Spirituality on an energetic plane. If you follow observances you will build more spiritual energy and if you don't or "sin" you will lose. This approach takes the "religion" out of spiritualality and thus it's pure. IMO.

very interesting...

 

On the christianity issue: I'd lump that into the division of 'conservative vs liberal' for who tends to 'observe' or follow dogma more.

 

On the buddhist issue: Since it's not considered a religion but a philosophy and therefore a 'practice', it makes sense that it has to be a part of living... as are other eastern 'beliefs' as well...

 

I like the 'detachment' idea.. hope you share more

[HKG]

There was this young person who wanted a bicycle and they prayed for this bike, there was this other person who stole the bike they wanted and then prayed for forgiveness for stealing the bike.

[HaoRan]

I am also of the opinion that "Religion" is a philosopy of negative reinforcement. That is,

 

If you do this or that you are going to hell. So, a negative idea has been put forth to 'control' or 'force' the individual down this path.

 

Both Buddhism and Christianity have these. That's why I can't sit though a Buddhism class with 17 levels of hell, etc.

 

Working on Spiritual Energetics, I think it's better to focus on the positive, building Spiritual Energy.

 

Instead of "if I do this I'll go to hell" I can say "If I do this I'll build Spirutual Energy and grow.

 

One path is gross, dead. The other live, bright, and wonderful.

Edited November 15, 2008 by HaoRan (see edit history)

[Guest lilac6451]

Christians like to kill people and Buddhist don't.

Thank you.

[LaurenAmber]

Christians like to kill people and Buddhist don't.

Thank you.

 

 

That's an overgeneralization that does not represent either religion. Plenty of Christians would never kill anyone, and plenty of Bhuddists would kill someone.

 

Nothing to get excited about.

[david_dawei]

I am also of the opinion that "Religion" is a philosopy of negative reinforcement. That is,

 

If you do this or that you are going to hell. So, a negative idea has been put forth to 'control' or 'force' the individual down this path.

 

Both Buddhism and Christianity have these. That's why I can't sit though a Buddhism class with 17 levels of hell, etc.

 

Working on Spiritual Energetics, I think it's better to focus on the positive, building Spiritual Energy.

 

Instead of "if I do this I'll go to hell" I can say "If I do this I'll build Spirutual Energy and grow.

 

One path is gross, dead. The other live, bright, and wonderful.

I see christianity as saying, you are saved... now save the rest. This means that it is "external" to a degree.

 

Buddhism says, 'save self'... so it is "internal".

 

Christianity has the concern of converting 'others'... so missionary aspects are natural.

 

Buddhism says, "don't harm others"... so non-interference in other people/lives/countries is natural.

[LaurenAmber]

Christianity is not all about converting, killing, and hell. It kind disturbs me that i'm only seeing those three things when people are talking about Christianity. I'm all for let's discuss the religions, but we should discuss the thoughts and things about the religions, not a place to only say such narrow things. Sorry i've just taken a lot of offense to things i've seen in this thread because there's more crap being posted about Christianity that is nowhere near accurate for the majority, yet it's being said like it is accurate.

 

Sorry it's just bothering me. I'm not gonna post my views on either because every religion has varying degrees of followers. I think at the base of it, both religions promote love and being a good person. Where people run with it after that is up to them. Neither is better than the other.