Buddhism and Christianity

[david_dawei]

There are really other eastern philosophies besides Buddhism which could be commented on as well, so feel free to comment on east vs west if desired.

 

One difference is of course the comparison of a [eastern] philosophy to a [western] religion; The former tends to be humanistic and the later deistic. [Although there are some very spiritual worshipping Buddhist or Taoist which could get classified more as a religion.]

 

Buddhism openly accepts any spiritual teaching and seeks to be no one's enemy in religion or life. I would say this probably comes out of the eastern world view that all are part of some whole and therefore no division is necessary. This would be in contrast to Christianity's teaching of a transcendent, yet personal god influencing life and determining the after life.

 

There are many discrete topics, beliefs, or issues that could be discussed in terms of similarities and differences... so I'll let others comment to see where it goes...

[pkfops]

Christians like to kill people and Buddhist don't.

[chilton747]

Mick has some interesting articles on the similarities. Maybe he will chime in.

Pete, I would never kill anyone and like it. Kung Fu was invented by the Buddists as a form of protection.

[Guest Rob & Jin]

Mick has some interesting articles on the similarities. Maybe he will chime in.

Pete, I would never kill anyone and like it. Kung Fu was invented by the Buddists as a form of protection.

 

 

 

 

 

thats like saying the atom bomb is christian.

 

 

kungfu is wushu not Buddhist

[izus]

Christians like to kill people and Buddhist don't.

it would be interesting if Siddhartha Gautama had a brother named Ishmael, how would the religion turn out then.

[david_dawei]

Christians like to kill people and Buddhist don't.

it would be interesting if Siddhartha Gautama had a brother named Ishmael, how would the religion turn out then.

honestly.... he left a palace full of royalty and a wife and child... no need to deal with unknown scenarios when the one we know is as profound... and Buddhism is more a teaching than a religion...

[bmic]

Mick has some interesting articles on the similarities. Maybe he will chime in.

Pete, I would never kill anyone and like it. Kung Fu was invented by the Buddists as a form of protection.

 

 

 

 

 

thats like saying the atom bomb is christian.

 

 

kungfu is wushu not Buddhist

 

I have to disagree with you on this point. Gongfu and wushu are very different, especially these days. The acrobatic flying around you see and the cartwheels and flips for no good reason, that is wushu. I think of it more as modern dance than anything else. Real gongfu you rarely see these days unless you go looking for it. Gongfu, in its origins was created as an exercise to keep the bodies of the monks fit, as it seemed they meditated and got fatter and fatter and..well, you get my drift. The different styles that emerged later came from natural observation and necessity. Things like the animal styles are said to come from the observations of animals, while things like the Da Mo Quan have their origins alll the way back to when Buddhism first came to China. To separate gongfu and Buddhism is almost impossible. I spent quite a bit of time learning gongfu and its history while I lived in a temple in northern China and I can tell you that every history of gongfu that was thoroughly researched seems to say the same.

 

My 2 cents.

[HKG]

Daoism of any Asian philosophies has much in common with Christianity.

my thoughts.

[LaurenAmber]

A difference that i've noticed is that it's easy for me to tell when someone is Christian usually with how they live and act. They just have certain things that tell you, or they're very open about it.

 

Yet with Buddhists i am always suprised to find out someone is. I have a fairly good understanding of Buddhism, yet outside of a temple i never would've guessed my own husband was Buddhist before he told me. Not saying he's a bad person at all, but there's not really any "defining" Buddhist nature in him or most any other Buddhists that i know.

 

I don't knwo if that applies to everyone, just something i've noticed.

[Guest Rob & Jin]

Mick has some interesting articles on the similarities. Maybe he will chime in.

Pete, I would never kill anyone and like it. Kung Fu was invented by the Buddists as a form of protection.

 

 

 

 

 

thats like saying the atom bomb is christian.

 

 

kungfu is wushu not Buddhist

 

I have to disagree with you on this point. Gongfu and wushu are very different, especially these days. The acrobatic flying around you see and the cartwheels and flips for no good reason, that is wushu. I think of it more as modern dance than anything else. Real gongfu you rarely see these days unless you go looking for it. Gongfu, in its origins was created as an exercise to keep the bodies of the monks fit, as it seemed they meditated and got fatter and fatter and..well, you get my drift. The different styles that emerged later came from natural observation and necessity. Things like the animal styles are said to come from the observations of animals, while things like the Da Mo Quan have their origins alll the way back to when Buddhism first came to China. To separate gongfu and Buddhism is almost impossible. I spent quite a bit of time learning gongfu and its history while I lived in a temple in northern China and I can tell you that every history of gongfu that was thoroughly researched seems to say the same.

 

My 2 cents.

 

 

 

 

History

The attribution of Shaolin's martial arts to Bodhidharma has been discounted by some 20th century martial arts historians, first by Tang Hao on the grounds that the Y¨¬ J¨©n J¨©ng is a forgery.[11]

 

Huiguang and Sengchou were involved with martial arts before they became two of the very first Shaolin monks, reported as practicing martial arts before the arrival of Bodhidharma.[12] Sengchou's skill with the tin staff is even documented in the Chinese Buddhist canon.

 

Records of the discovery of arms caches in the monasteries of Chang'an during government raids in AD 446 suggests that Chinese monks practiced martial arts prior to the establishment of the Shaolin Monastery in 497.[13] Monks came from the ranks of the population among whom the martial arts were widely practiced prior to the introduction of Buddhism. There are indications that Huiguang, Sengchou and even Huike, Bodhidarma's immediate successor as Patriarch of Ch¨¢n Buddhism, may have been military men before retiring to the monastic life. Moreover, Chinese monasteries, not unlike those of Europe, in many ways were effectively large landed estates, that is, sources of considerable regular income which required protection.

 

In addition, the Spring and Autumn Annals of Wu and Yue, the Bibliographies in the Book of the Han Dynasty and the Records of the Grand Historian all document the existence of martial arts in China before Bodhidharma. The martial arts Shu¨¡i Ji¨¡o and Sun Bin Quan, to name two, predate the establishment of the Shaolin Monastery by centuries.[14]

 

[Stepbrow]

A big difference in Western Religion and Western Philosophy vis a vis Eastern Spirituality and Eastern Philosophy is the concept of reincarnation and Karma. What are your thoughts on this?

[david_dawei]

I think the terms Wu Shu and Kung Fu hold a different connotation in china and outside of china.

 

Wu Shu seems to me to be simply 'martial arts' or maybe translierally as 'military method' or 'skill'. This is often now associated with the acrobatic martial art display mentioned but it's a bit narrow. There are plenty of references in ancient writings to the military's use of training so the origin of fighting styles coming from the military appear logical.

 

Kung Fu is not necessarily a martial art term in china; the term simply means to 'achieve something through effort' and can be applied to almost anything where skill and effort exist.. even in cooking. Although today it is usually thought of [in the west] as the Chinese martial art form.

 

Buddhism's influence can easily be traced to what I would call Shaolin Kung Fu and the original main influence was for improving health (through internal qi practices) and not just a fighting style (external practices) as it seems more thought of today.

 

I think a strong transition that occurred to the martial art forms from Shaolin onward was more integration of 'internal' with 'external' methods although the mix appears to have existed prior to Shaolin's form.

 

But I don't see any reason why one cannot separate Buddhism and Kung Fu since the former was clearly around prior to Buddhism's entry to china.

[bmic]

I think the terms Wu Shu and Kung Fu hold a different connotation in china and outside of china.

 

Wu Shu seems to me to be simply 'martial arts' or maybe translierally as 'military method' or 'skill'. This is often now associated with the acrobatic martial art display mentioned but it's a bit narrow. There are plenty of references in ancient writings to the military's use of training so the origin of fighting styles coming from the military appear logical.

 

Kung Fu is not necessarily a martial art term in china; the term simply means to 'achieve something through effort' and can be applied to almost anything where skill and effort exist.. even in cooking. Although today it is usually thought of [in the west] as the Chinese martial art form.

 

Buddhism's influence can easily be traced to what I would call Shaolin Kung Fu and the original main influence was for improving health (through internal qi practices) and not just a fighting style (external practices) as it seems more thought of today.

 

I think a strong transition that occurred to the martial art forms from Shaolin onward was more integration of 'internal' with 'external' methods although the mix appears to have existed prior to Shaolin's form.

 

But I don't see any reason why one cannot separate Buddhism and Kung Fu since the former was clearly around prior to Buddhism's entry to china.

 

 

some would argue that while you could separate them, you would lose some of the benefits gained by doing so. The practice of zen and it's "no mind" philosophy works hand-in-hand with many of the internal arts especially ones which benefit from breath control.

[david_dawei]

Daoism of any Asian philosophies has much in common with Christianity.

I would agree to some extent.

 

One issue I find interesting as a comparison is that:

- Daoism has alot of strong feelings about 'self' (depend on self; don't harm self), yet one doesn't view it as strong in individualism; it's worldview of each person as 'one' of the ten thousand things keeps their perspective on that which is around them... and that man is really necessarily any more significant than anything else in the grand scheme.

- Christianity has alot of strong feelings about transcendent issues (god is above; god rewards and punishes), yet one doesn't view it as strong in deferring to others; it's world view of 'one' above all mankind makes each one as important or even as the most important thing in existence.

 

 

 

A big difference in Western Religion and Western Philosophy vis a vis Eastern Spirituality and Eastern Philosophy is the concept of reincarnation and Karma. What are your thoughts on this?

I tend to see western religions and philosophies as different in that the former is based on belief and ritual; eastern religions and philosophies are sometimes simply considered one and the same since there is often no deity involved, so 'belief' is moot; so, think of religion/philosophy rather as 'teachings'.

 

Although there are branches of Buddhism and Daoism which are considered religious and would have important rituals which are practiced and followed and would be considered having more spiritual sides.

 

But shades of karma and reincarnation cross over to both the eastern humanistic/philosophic/naturalistic and spiritual branches at times. Which seems to show that both the spiritual and non-spiritual sides have a common base, and in true eastern fashion, dualism's two sides are not antagonistic or contradictory but rather is complimentary (think Yin Yang).

 

Karma and reincarnation are of Indian philosophy origin's... and Buddhism's use of the terms don't appear to completely be the same for Hinduism. For Hinduism, reincarnation means the continuation of the entity; for Buddhism there is no fixed self, so the continuity is often more compared to a candle used to light another candle. Karma is like the engine which turns the wheels of the cycle of re-birth.

 

The buddha taught that people are responsible for their actions and those actions have an effect (cycle of cause and effect aligns with cycle of re-birth).

 

I think the reason that these two concepts made sense to the chinese and generally adopted was because of their [daoist] feelings about depending on 'self'. Also, since most chinese philosophies are based on their worldview of 'one as a part of the many', from ancient times they created a philosophy based on what they see in the environment/nature... and what they see are cycles in all areas of life (sun rise/set/rise, grass or leaves grow/die/grow, four seasons, etc).

 

The reasons these may not take as much hold for western religions is our worldview of life is more linear.

[david_dawei]

I think the terms Wu Shu and Kung Fu hold a different connotation in china and outside of china.

 

Wu Shu seems to me to be simply 'martial arts' or maybe translierally as 'military method' or 'skill'. This is often now associated with the acrobatic martial art display mentioned but it's a bit narrow. There are plenty of references in ancient writings to the military's use of training so the origin of fighting styles coming from the military appear logical.

 

Kung Fu is not necessarily a martial art term in china; the term simply means to 'achieve something through effort' and can be applied to almost anything where skill and effort exist.. even in cooking. Although today it is usually thought of [in the west] as the Chinese martial art form.

 

Buddhism's influence can easily be traced to what I would call Shaolin Kung Fu and the original main influence was for improving health (through internal qi practices) and not just a fighting style (external practices) as it seems more thought of today.

 

I think a strong transition that occurred to the martial art forms from Shaolin onward was more integration of 'internal' with 'external' methods although the mix appears to have existed prior to Shaolin's form.

 

But I don't see any reason why one cannot separate Buddhism and Kung Fu since the former was clearly around prior to Buddhism's entry to china.

 

 

some would argue that while you could separate them, you would lose some of the benefits gained by doing so. The practice of zen and it's "no mind" philosophy works hand-in-hand with many of the internal arts especially ones which benefit from breath control.

I think we agree in part since I would only argue to 'allow' them to separate on some levels and leave them together on others; yes, it does provide some benefit.

 

Agree on the 'internal art' but let's also not forget that Qi Gong is an ancient chinese internal art which would of been used prior to Zen's import... and differed in it's focus (Qi rather than emptying the mind); Zen did eventually become much more popular or well known outside of china and earlier than Qi Gong.

 

I would be curious to hear how much Zen meditation is actually used in china's history (or even today) as that is even a later development than Buddhism in China... and Zen's rise and fall in China occurs for understanable reasons... And meditation seems to have also be something which evolved in Zen; the early master's didn't seem to hold it as importantly as the latter one's and particularly once it flourished in Japan.