Christianity in China...

[SheLikesME?]

Well to Roger and all of the rest of you and those who read my post I came here to delete my post or cut out a large portion of it and apologize for most of my words, but it has already been used to quote from. I did not have to imply some of the history of some churches nor express any ill toward some that practice their religion the way they do today. It was VERY unchristian of me to do so. I cannot say I have ever been a strong one to live my own beliefs. It troubles me. Self discipline I lack in bucket fulls. So I apologize to all

Edited October 5, 2008 by SheLikesME? (see edit history)

[Mike62356]

Well to Roger and all of the rest of you and those who read my post I came here to delete my post or cut out a large portion of it and apologize for most of my words, but it has already been used to quote from. I did not have to imply some of the history of some churches nor express any ill toward some that practice their religion the way they do today. It was VERY unchristian of me to do so. I cannot say I have ever been a strong one to live my own beliefs. It troubles me. Self discipline I lack in bucket fulls. So I apologize to all

No offense was taken so no need to say your sorry friend, we all have our own take on things.

[jim_julian]

Roger, your point is a good one. The further spread of Christianity in China may help provide a better defined moral compass for both those directly involved and those adjacent.

[hakkamike]

Roger, your point is a good one. The further spread of Christianity in China may help provide a better defined moral compass for both those directly involved and those adjacent.

[Guest Tony n Terrific]

Chinese all becoming Christians??? Well, God help them if they do!!

 

Of course God will help them if they do.

 

God help us all if they become Catholics.

The foundation of Christianity is derived from the Judeo-Catholic doctrines.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displa...ory_id=12342509

 

I already know what you're thinking... What's a pagan like me doing talking about RELIGION???

 

Lately with all the bad news about melamine, mine disasters, intentionally contaminated food, etc. I've been wondering if China doesn't need some kind of ethical/moral guidepost for its people. "To get rich is glorious" just doesn't cover all the bases of human behavior... There is Confuscianism and I have read of party efforts to promote it. But what seems to be taking hold much more quickly is Christianity...So here's an article from the widely respected Economist on the growth of Christianity in China...

Christianity's track record as an ethical/moral guidepost is dubious at best.

What it does have a good track record in is self-promotion and separating people from their money and senses.

 

YMMV

 

I agree with Dave's assessment; and will also add that in my opinion the moral compass of the people in China, is more high-functioning than that of most Christians.

[Guest Mike and Lily]

http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displa...ory_id=12342509

 

I already know what you're thinking... What's a pagan like me doing talking about RELIGION???

 

Lately with all the bad news about melamine, mine disasters, intentionally contaminated food, etc. I've been wondering if China doesn't need some kind of ethical/moral guidepost for its people. "To get rich is glorious" just doesn't cover all the bases of human behavior... There is Confuscianism and I have read of party efforts to promote it. But what seems to be taking hold much more quickly is Christianity...So here's an article from the widely respected Economist on the growth of Christianity in China...

Christianity's track record as an ethical/moral guidepost is dubious at best.

What it does have a good track record in is self-promotion and separating people from their money and senses.

 

YMMV

 

I agree with Dave's assessment; and will also add that in my opinion the moral compass of the people in China, is more high-functioning than that of most Christians.

 

I don't think that being a Christian country has really helped Mexico in terms of it's moral values. Neither has bordering the USA either.

[david_dawei]

 

there are many different ways that ONE/SOMEONE can become either better or worse..

 

 

You have us seriously confused David...

 

How 'bout now Rog?

Amazing how "Davie's" can read each others mind

Edited October 6, 2008 by DavidZixuan (see edit history)

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

 

there are many different ways that ONE/SOMEONE can become either better or worse..

 

 

You have us seriously confused David...

 

How 'bout now Rog?

Amazing how "Davie's" can read each others mind

 

I think Mahatma Ghandi said it best:

 

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

[david_dawei]

most chinese do not think religion (church) important, better just live by culture. very long history

 

I am NOT trying to push religion here Jin... I greatly respect Chinese culture...

 

My whole point is that from where I sit many Chinese could use some ethics in their dealings with others... Look how would you feel if the next time you went to the market here in the US to buy groceries you were charged double... And when you complained they said..."Well you're a foreigner"... And I know I don't have to ask how you would feel if your baby was in the hospital because of the greed of others who have no regard for anyone else...

um... I think the problem is your applying western ethics, as has been washed between your ears as how the world *should* act, and expecting that another culture which was taught a completely different ethic based on different values should possibly take it on.... At least you were trained well... that is one essential element of western [imposed] ethics!

 

Honestly... this is the problem, isn't it; expecting the world to operation as we think it should... we in the US are still wet behind the ears at how many hundred years old? compared to china of how many thousands (dare I say ten-thousand if we permit the neolitic stage). What we cannot fathom is that historical duration may create a stability we in the US cannot fathom yet;

 

Christianity is quite diametrically opposed to Chinese philosophical thought at the really high points; there are lower levels which share some common ground; but at it's core, in the former, man is evil, no good and damned from birth; for the latter he is instrinctly good, the same as nature... What happens if you impose the former thought on a culture of 10,000 years holding the latter thought?

 

You've got to understand their ethical value and basis for it... which is rooted in being a part of everything... connected to both heaven and earth. Now, the next pond ripple inward is all "things"... connected among the ten thousand things which flourish... now, the next pond ripple inward is mankind... finally until you get to a very humanistic level of "man to man" and where their responsibility is... it's much to difficult to explain completely here... but the US doesn't have the history or pragmatism in regards to dealing with this kind of ethics taught over so many years..

[IllinoisDave]

 

there are many different ways that ONE/SOMEONE can become either better or worse..

 

 

You have us seriously confused David...

 

How 'bout now Rog?

Amazing how "Davie's" can read each others mind

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

most chinese do not think religion (church) important, better just live by culture. very long history

 

I am NOT trying to push religion here Jin... I greatly respect Chinese culture...

 

My whole point is that from where I sit many Chinese could use some ethics in their dealings with others... Look how would you feel if the next time you went to the market here in the US to buy groceries you were charged double... And when you complained they said..."Well you're a foreigner"... And I know I don't have to ask how you would feel if your baby was in the hospital because of the greed of others who have no regard for anyone else...

um... I think the problem is your applying western ethics, as has been washed between your ears as how the world *should* act, and expecting that another culture which was taught a completely different ethic based on different values should possibly take it on.... At least you were trained well... that is one essential element of western [imposed] ethics!

 

Roger's post is simply an example of how many Western minds work. If you won't accept their way, then, they will try to force-feed it to you.

[david_dawei]

 

there are many different ways that ONE/SOMEONE can become either better or worse..

 

 

You have us seriously confused David...

 

How 'bout now Rog?

Amazing how "Davie's" can read each others mind

And hope you caught the "Davie" payback!

[rogerluli]

most chinese do not think religion (church) important, better just live by culture. very long history

 

I am NOT trying to push religion here Jin... I greatly respect Chinese culture...

 

My whole point is that from where I sit many Chinese could use some ethics in their dealings with others... Look how would you feel if the next time you went to the market here in the US to buy groceries you were charged double... And when you complained they said..."Well you're a foreigner"... And I know I don't have to ask how you would feel if your baby was in the hospital because of the greed of others who have no regard for anyone else...

um... I think the problem is your applying western ethics, as has been washed between your ears as how the world *should* act, and expecting that another culture which was taught a completely different ethic based on different values should possibly take it on.... At least you were trained well... that is one essential element of western [imposed] ethics!

 

Honestly... this is the problem, isn't it; expecting the world to operation as we think it should... we in the US are still wet behind the ears at how many hundred years old? compared to china of how many thousands (dare I say ten-thousand if we permit the neolitic stage). What we cannot fathom is that historical duration may create a stability we in the US cannot fathom yet;

 

Christianity is quite diametrically opposed to Chinese philosophical thought at the really high points; there are lower levels which share some common ground; but at it's core, in the former, man is evil, no good and damned from birth; for the latter he is instrinctly good, the same as nature... What happens if you impose the former thought on a culture of 10,000 years holding the latter thought?

 

You've got to understand their ethical value and basis for it... which is rooted in being a part of everything... connected to both heaven and earth. Now, the next pond ripple inward is all "things"... connected among the ten thousand things which flourish... now, the next pond ripple inward is mankind... finally until you get to a very humanistic level of "man to man" and where their responsibility is... it's much to difficult to explain completely here... but the US doesn't have the history or pragmatism in regards to dealing with this kind of ethics taught over so many years..

 

David can we get this down to a practical level and leave the "pond ripple" out of it for now...

 

Yesterday I'm in my local home store buying water softener salt. I load up my cart with 5 bags and proceed to the checkout. There the girl says "4 bags of salt?" Now what do I reply and what does the average Chinese person reply? I said, of course, being trained for all those years in ethical behavior..."No 5 bags." So I paid an extra $4 but I felt better than if I had mumbled "Yup"...

 

And what about the laowei price question??? Do you think it fair on any level to pay more for everything that doesn't have a price marked on it in China just because you are a foreigner???

 

I also note that most of those opposed to my premise have not bothered to comment in the poisoned milk thread...

[rogerluli]

http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displa...ory_id=12342509

 

I already know what you're thinking... What's a pagan like me doing talking about RELIGION???

 

Lately with all the bad news about melamine, mine disasters, intentionally contaminated food, etc. I've been wondering if China doesn't need some kind of ethical/moral guidepost for its people. "To get rich is glorious" just doesn't cover all the bases of human behavior... There is Confuscianism and I have read of party efforts to promote it. But what seems to be taking hold much more quickly is Christianity...So here's an article from the widely respected Economist on the growth of Christianity in China...

Christianity's track record as an ethical/moral guidepost is dubious at best.

What it does have a good track record in is self-promotion and separating people from their money and senses.

 

YMMV

 

I agree with Dave's assessment; and will also add that in my opinion the moral compass of the people in China, is more high-functioning than that of most Christians.

 

I don't think that being a Christian country has really helped Mexico in terms of it's moral values. Neither has bordering the USA either.

 

Mexico has considerable problems with official corruption and the drug traffic... On a personal level I have found Mexican people to be very ethical...