"Without money you are nothing..."

[Guest Mike and Lily]

 

 

"Socialism" ????? Where do you keep digging this stuff up Jesse??? Could you please show me where I suggested anything about socialism or "raising taxes"???

 

Roger, everyone, or most everyone would like to save the poor, the sick, the infirmed, but just who is going to pay for it?

 

The point is that taking care of the poor takes more than just compassion. It takes cold hard cash. I'm sure you're happy with the small amount of taxes you pay in China. Would you rather pay the tax rates you pay in the USA for that compassion?

 

Well Jesse is good hearted enough to be paying income taxes in both countries... When I retire to China I will have no income there so will only pay US income taxes...

 

Who said anything about income taxes? What if they provided the social safety net out of property taxes!

[Dennis143]

So, if the government did not tax us or taxed little, it would put all that money back in our pockets. And, what would we do with that money? We'd either spend it or save it. Right?

 

Spending it will stimulate the economy and saving it will give the banks a larger pool of cash to loan.

 

But instead, let's give our money to the government, so they can spend it on pork barrel bridges-to-nowhere and then borrow money to give to us to help stimulate the economy or to bail out banks who are cash poor.

Edited October 30, 2008 by Dennis143 (see edit history)

[Jeikun]

 

 

"Socialism" ????? Where do you keep digging this stuff up Jesse??? Could you please show me where I suggested anything about socialism or "raising taxes"???

 

Roger, everyone, or most everyone would like to save the poor, the sick, the infirmed, but just who is going to pay for it?

 

The point is that taking care of the poor takes more than just compassion. It takes cold hard cash. I'm sure you're happy with the small amount of taxes you pay in China. Would you rather pay the tax rates you pay in the USA for that compassion?

 

Well Jesse is good hearted enough to be paying income taxes in both countries... When I retire to China I will have no income there so will only pay US income taxes...

 

Who said anything about income taxes? What if they provided the social safety net out of property taxes!

 

 

Property taxes taste even more bitter when you can't even truly own the property you're being taxed for

[georgeandli]

Since the thread has gone so off... Even with money,I ain't nothing. Ask the wife.

[GZBILL]

 

 

"Socialism" ????? Where do you keep digging this stuff up Jesse??? Could you please show me where I suggested anything about socialism or "raising taxes"???

 

Roger, everyone, or most everyone would like to save the poor, the sick, the infirmed, but just who is going to pay for it?

 

The point is that taking care of the poor takes more than just compassion. It takes cold hard cash. I'm sure you're happy with the small amount of taxes you pay in China. Would you rather pay the tax rates you pay in the USA for that compassion?

 

I certainly hope you are not implying that tax rates in China are lower than US tax rates because that would be patently false.

[GZBILL]

 

 

"Socialism" ????? Where do you keep digging this stuff up Jesse??? Could you please show me where I suggested anything about socialism or "raising taxes"???

 

Roger, everyone, or most everyone would like to save the poor, the sick, the infirmed, but just who is going to pay for it?

 

The point is that taking care of the poor takes more than just compassion. It takes cold hard cash. I'm sure you're happy with the small amount of taxes you pay in China. Would you rather pay the tax rates you pay in the USA for that compassion?

 

Well Jesse is good hearted enough to be paying income taxes in both countries... When I retire to China I will have no income there so will only pay US income taxes...

 

Who said anything about income taxes? What if they provided the social safety net out of property taxes!

 

Huh? What property taxes?? There are no property taxes in China as there are in the US.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

So, if the government did not tax us or taxed little, it would put all that money back in our pockets. And, what would we do with that money? We'd either spend it or save it. Right?

 

Spending it will stimulate the economy and saving it will give the banks a larger pool of cash to loan.

 

But instead, let's give our money to the government, so they can spend it on pork barrel bridges-to-nowhere and then borrow money to give to us to help stimulate the economy or to bail out banks who are cash poor.

 

You just nailed it Dennis!

 

Outside of a pure socialism, no government has ever proven itself responsible enough to spend the peoples money. If anyone truly has a burden for the poor, you would be far better off to give directly to them and / or provide them with real tools to use. Governments don't fix things, people do.

[GZBILL]

 

 

"Socialism" ????? Where do you keep digging this stuff up Jesse??? Could you please show me where I suggested anything about socialism or "raising taxes"???

 

Roger, everyone, or most everyone would like to save the poor, the sick, the infirmed, but just who is going to pay for it?

 

The point is that taking care of the poor takes more than just compassion. It takes cold hard cash. I'm sure you're happy with the small amount of taxes you pay in China. Would you rather pay the tax rates you pay in the USA for that compassion?

 

Well Jesse is good hearted enough to be paying income taxes in both countries... When I retire to China I will have no income there so will only pay US income taxes...

 

Don't be so sure of that.

 

Quite like the US, China taxes residents and citizens alike on their wordwide income. There are certain exclusions, but only for those who leave the country a certain number of days per year. Make sure you have a budget in your retirement for one-month trips back to the US each year.

[Guest Mike and Lily]

 

 

"Socialism" ????? Where do you keep digging this stuff up Jesse??? Could you please show me where I suggested anything about socialism or "raising taxes"???

 

Roger, everyone, or most everyone would like to save the poor, the sick, the infirmed, but just who is going to pay for it?

 

The point is that taking care of the poor takes more than just compassion. It takes cold hard cash. I'm sure you're happy with the small amount of taxes you pay in China. Would you rather pay the tax rates you pay in the USA for that compassion?

 

I certainly hope you are not implying that tax rates in China are lower than US tax rates because that would be patently false.

 

patently false, NOT!

 

Here is a link to the income taxes in China. Yes, the marginal rate of 45% is higher than the USA, however, there is no state tax, no property tax, no sales tax, no social security or medicare. So I think the correct answer is that it depends on your income and which state you live in.

 

http://www.worldwide-tax.com/china/china_tax.asp

[GZBILL]

 

 

"Socialism" ????? Where do you keep digging this stuff up Jesse??? Could you please show me where I suggested anything about socialism or "raising taxes"???

 

Roger, everyone, or most everyone would like to save the poor, the sick, the infirmed, but just who is going to pay for it?

 

The point is that taking care of the poor takes more than just compassion. It takes cold hard cash. I'm sure you're happy with the small amount of taxes you pay in China. Would you rather pay the tax rates you pay in the USA for that compassion?

 

I certainly hope you are not implying that tax rates in China are lower than US tax rates because that would be patently false.

 

patently false, NOT!

 

Here is a link to the income taxes in China. Yes, the marginal rate of 45% is higher than the USA, however, there is no state tax, no property tax, no sales tax, no social security or medicare. So I think the correct answer is that it depends on your income and which state you live in.

 

http://www.worldwide-tax.com/china/china_tax.asp

 

Patently false. Do research before you put your foot in your mouth.

 

45% marginal rate. There most definitely IS social insurance deductions mandated by law which account for another approximately 10%.

 

For any income earned outside of a primary, full-time job the minimum tax rate is 20%.

 

On top of that marginal rate, consider also that there is generally no itemization / deductions allowed that can reduce your tax liability.

 

There IS a sales tax, but that is factored into the retail pricing structure of each and every item you buy.

 

There is, however, no state tax or property taxes ... yet. Property tax system is in the works though.

[GZBILL]

And while I'm at it, let me bust the weak-minded argument of there being no property taxes in China.

 

While the property tax system in China is not like the in the US where you have annual tax payments based on the appraised value of your property, make no mistake about it -- that doesn't in any way mean there is a free ride in China.

 

Property developers are heavily taxed on the land they are allocated to build on and one would have to be quite, shall we say, idiotic to believe that these costs are not passed directly on to the home-buying public.

 

Or do you believe that $173,000 dollars for a 100 m2 apartment in a middle-class neighborhood in Guangzhou is the result of people clamoring to enjoy the clean air and 4 kuai crap-in-a-styrofoam-box-lunch sold on the street corners?

 

Try Beijing: $470,000 for the same apartment.

 

For $470k you can get a really nice seashore condo in Miami -- even before property prices tanked there -- and buy a nice BMW with the change.

 

No, the answer does not depend on your income and which state you live in.

Edited October 31, 2008 by rogerluli (see edit history)

[tsap seui]

And while I'm at it, let me bust the weak-minded argument of there being no property taxes in China.

 

While the property tax system in China is not like the in the US where you have annual tax payments based on the appraised value of your property, make no mistake about it -- that doesn't in any way mean there is a free ride in China.

 

Property developers are heavily taxed on the land they are allocated to build on and one would have to be quite, shall we say, idiotic to believe that these costs are not passed directly on to the home-buying public.

 

Or do you believe that $173,000 dollars for a 100 m2 apartment in a middle-class neighborhood in Guangzhou is the result of people clamoring to enjoy the clean air and 4 kuai crap-in-a-styrofoam-box-lunch sold on the street corners?

 

Try Beijing: $470,000 for the same apartment.

 

For $470k you can get a really nice seashore condo in Miami -- even before property prices tanked there -- and buy a nice BMW with the change.

 

No, the answer does not depend on your income and which state you live in.

 

Bill, being a businessman I well understand all costs are passed on to the consumer, so I'm not asleep in thinking the Chinese businessmen aren't passing on their costs to the home buyers at the time of the sale. One time, right? Yes, we will be paying a condo fee (whatever they choose to call it) for upkeep of the community fountains, security guards, grounds upkeep, etc., but there is no city or provincial payments due after the sale. Correct?

 

Now let me ask you, in hot, muggy, sweltering Guangzhou a mid sized home is the equivalent of $173,000 US dollars, and in Beijing it's $470,000 US equivalent dollars for the same apartment? I was thinking those prices were in RMB, not that I would want to live in Guangahou, even if it were 73rmb for a 100 m2 apartment.

 

Your use of the dollar sign ($) with regards to Chinese and american apartments made me wonder if I was missing something...

 

tsap seui

Edited October 31, 2008 by rogerluli (see edit history)

[rogerluli]

And while I'm at it, let me bust the weak-minded argument of there being no property taxes in China.

 

While the property tax system in China is not like the in the US where you have annual tax payments based on the appraised value of your property, make no mistake about it -- that doesn't in any way mean there is a free ride in China.

 

Property developers are heavily taxed on the land they are allocated to build on and one would have to be quite, shall we say, idiotic to believe that these costs are not passed directly on to the home-buying public.

 

Or do you believe that $173,000 dollars for a 100 m2 apartment in a middle-class neighborhood in Guangzhou is the result of people clamoring to enjoy the clean air and 4 kuai crap-in-a-styrofoam-box-lunch sold on the street corners?

 

Try Beijing: $470,000 for the same apartment.

 

For $470k you can get a really nice seashore condo in Miami -- even before property prices tanked there -- and buy a nice BMW with the change.

 

No, the answer does not depend on your income and which state you live in.

 

Bill, being a businessman I well understand all costs are passed on to the consumer, so I'm not asleep in thinking the Chinese businessmen aren't passing on their costs to the home buyers at the time of the sale. One time, right? Yes, we will be paying a condo fee (whatever they choose to call it) for upkeep of the community fountains, security guards, grounds upkeep, etc., but there is no city or provincial payments due after the sale. Correct?

 

Now let me ask you, in hot, muggy, sweltering Guangzhou a mid sized home is the equivalent of $173,000 US dollars, and in Beijing it's $470,000 US equivalent dollars for the same apartment? I was thinking those prices were in RMB, not that I would want to live in Guangahou, even if it were 73rmb for a 100 m2 apartment.

 

Your use of the dollar sign ($) with regards to Chinese and american apartments made me wonder if I was missing something...

 

tsap seui

 

No mistake Tsap...The use of the '$' means UNITED STATES DOLLAR to any and all...

Edited October 31, 2008 by rogerluli (see edit history)

[IllinoisDave]

I will add one comment about what you might SEE in China. If I had to rely on what I had seen in China I would be pretty limited. I have seen very small towns in Hunan in which the houses looked very old and poor. I have been inside a few of those and my perceptions were exactly right. But the great majority of what I have SEEN was by watching Chinese TV and specifically Hunan TV which does a lot of work in the countryside showing how many rural people really live... Their homes, schools, hospitals, workplaces...It is often not a pretty picture...

Rog Rog Rog...You should know by now that if someone doesn't actually SEE something with their own eyes in China it obviously doesn't exist. After all, in a country the geographical size of China with a population of 3.1 billion, how hard can it be to have seen every square inch and every single person?

 

Sorry for the minor correction, Dave, but it's 1.3 billion. You're not dyslexic when it comes to numbers, are you.

?ksa uoy od yhw, oN

Edited October 31, 2008 by IllinoisDave (see edit history)

[tsap seui]

And while I'm at it, let me bust the weak-minded argument of there being no property taxes in China.

 

While the property tax system in China is not like the in the US where you have annual tax payments based on the appraised value of your property, make no mistake about it -- that doesn't in any way mean there is a free ride in China.

 

Property developers are heavily taxed on the land they are allocated to build on and one would have to be quite, shall we say, idiotic to believe that these costs are not passed directly on to the home-buying public.

 

Or do you believe that $173,000 dollars for a 100 m2 apartment in a middle-class neighborhood in Guangzhou is the result of people clamoring to enjoy the clean air and 4 kuai crap-in-a-styrofoam-box-lunch sold on the street corners?

 

Try Beijing: $470,000 for the same apartment.

 

For $470k you can get a really nice seashore condo in Miami -- even before property prices tanked there -- and buy a nice BMW with the change.

 

No, the answer does not depend on your income and which state you live in.

 

Bill, being a businessman I well understand all costs are passed on to the consumer, so I'm not asleep in thinking the Chinese businessmen aren't passing on their costs to the home buyers at the time of the sale. One time, right? Yes, we will be paying a condo fee (whatever they choose to call it) for upkeep of the community fountains, security guards, grounds upkeep, etc., but there is no city or provincial payments due after the sale. Correct?

 

Now let me ask you, in hot, muggy, sweltering Guangzhou a mid sized home is the equivalent of $173,000 US dollars, and in Beijing it's $470,000 US equivalent dollars for the same apartment? I was thinking those prices were in RMB, not that I would want to live in Guangahou, even if it were 73rmb for a 100 m2 apartment.

 

Your use of the dollar sign ($) with regards to Chinese and american apartments made me wonder if I was missing something...

 

tsap seui

 

No mistake Tsap...The use of the '$' means UNITED STATES DOLLAR to any and all...

 

Thanks cuzin' rOggiE. Why, I'd be dumber than a trout chewin' on a rubber worm to pay that kind of money to live in Guangzhou. Even if the crap in a plastic box was dadgum FREE.

 

Sometimes, I look at life and with a hillbilly grin, I smile...other times...I laugh out loud.

 

tsap seui

Edited October 31, 2008 by rogerluli (see edit history)