"Without money you are nothing..."

[david_dawei]

Also the so-called sales tax in China paid by the merchants is often no more than a bargaining chip used by buyers to obtain a lower price. Unless you're shopping at big department store, 9 times out of 10, merchants won't give out a tax receipt unless you ask them and sometimes not even then.

 

Wrong again. Is this a habit for you?

 

Sales tax is built into prices from the moment of manufacture. Only a moron would not recover the tax he paid when purchasing the products he sells from his supplier. Whatever negative aspects people would like to imply about Chinese merchants, they are not stupid.

 

You are thinking of the receipt merchants give customers make a purchase. This is called a "fapiao" and is in no way an indication of whether or not someone pays sales tax.

 

The money you save -- if any -- when not obtaining a fapiao is directly related to the money the merchant saves on income tax and the approximately 5% additional levy for the fapiao fee levied by the tax bureau.

 

 

Bill - he's gone - hit the road - unregistered

Since more talk is going on about him... just want to make it clear.. the mods did not ask him to go and frankly have discussed his request to leave and are not necessarily happy with some aspects of why it came to that.

 

People come here to share thoughts, ideas and struggles with the new found life partners and the clash of cultures. We have to respect that some will know more and some less, but we have to respect that everyone has an opinion and at times it may not even be correct.

 

------

 

I think we are taking this further and further off topic.. so we can get back to it or let it fade....

[georgeandli]

No one knows everything. We only really know what personally happens to each of us. All else is 2nd hand or worse. DaveZixuan, Can I say to really get this off topic, Make the election be over.

[david_dawei]

No one knows everything. We only really know what personally happens to each of us. All else is 2nd hand or worse. DaveZixuan, Can I say to really get this off topic, Make the election be over.

ok... so I had a small glimpse of wishful thinking... give me my personal experience

[GZBILL]

this thread is confusing

 

income tax is on a sliding scale in China, Jin says most (workers) dont pay anything.

 

They pay a small amount for pention, thats about it.

 

 

property tax she says has never heard of it, no-one in her family has ever paid it.

 

 

she says there is no tax on stuff you buy from shops.

 

 

All I can say is you guys must be living, visiting, working for and buying houses/goods in the wrong places or through the wrong poeple.

No sure, but I do believe there's a different set of tax rules for expats working and living in China, Rob.

 

Also it is a possibility that the taxes are embedded so that the people do not realize it.

 

Yes, individual income tax is on a sliding scale basis according to how much you earn. For Chinese people, the threshold under which no ITT is levied is approximately 1,200 RMB per month. For expats it is approximately 4,800 RMB per month. Regardless of your salary amount, all Chinese people pay into the social insurance schemes. Expats, unless you have permanent residence, are not allowed to pay into the social insurance schemes.

 

There is property tax unless you are dealing with farmland used to cultivate crops. There is no way to get around it. Whether you realize you are paying it or not is another issue.

 

As for sales tax, it is, indeed, embedded into the price of goods. So is the assessment for fapiaos as well as, obviously, business income tax and, in some cases, a turnover tax based on a percentage of a company's entire turnover for the year. Most people never realize they are paying these taxes as it is not like in the US where in most places prices are quoted as $1.99 + tax. The fact that most people are ignorant as to how the sales tax system works in China does not mean it doesn't exist.

 

Additionally, China is in the process of introducing a VAT system similar to the type used in Europe / UK. They are also in the process of introducing an annual property tax levy like that which is used in most places in the US. Both of these measures are highly unpopular and to make them more palatable, if at all possible, they will be introduced gradually.

 

On a related note, tax evasion is China is pervasive and of epidemic porportions amongst the Chinese population and the underground expat population. For those of us who work here legally, it is interesting to note that over 50% of Shanghai's individual income tax revenue comes from expat labor. Another way to look at it would be 50% of individual income tax revenue is paid by a < 1% segment of the population.

 

This tax evasion issue is finally getting the attention of high-level political leaders and now they are tying work permits / visas / residence permits into a database which already includes data from commercial banks and is soon to be tied into the tax bureau's own system.

[Guest jin979]

and the tax evasion of business and the corruption of their friends in Government and the politicians too . right

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

this thread is confusing

 

income tax is on a sliding scale in China, Jin says most (workers) dont pay anything.

 

They pay a small amount for pention, thats about it.

 

 

property tax she says has never heard of it, no-one in her family has ever paid it.

 

 

she says there is no tax on stuff you buy from shops.

 

 

All I can say is you guys must be living, visiting, working for and buying houses/goods in the wrong places or through the wrong poeple.

No sure, but I do believe there's a different set of tax rules for expats working and living in China, Rob.

 

Also it is a possibility that the taxes are embedded so that the people do not realize it.

 

Yes, individual income tax is on a sliding scale basis according to how much you earn. For Chinese people, the threshold under which no ITT is levied is approximately 1,200 RMB per month. For expats it is approximately 4,800 RMB per month. Regardless of your salary amount, all Chinese people pay into the social insurance schemes. Expats, unless you have permanent residence, are not allowed to pay into the social insurance schemes.

 

There is property tax unless you are dealing with farmland used to cultivate crops. There is no way to get around it. Whether you realize you are paying it or not is another issue.

 

As for sales tax, it is, indeed, embedded into the price of goods. So is the assessment for fapiaos as well as, obviously, business income tax and, in some cases, a turnover tax based on a percentage of a company's entire turnover for the year. Most people never realize they are paying these taxes as it is not like in the US where in most places prices are quoted as $1.99 + tax. The fact that most people are ignorant as to how the sales tax system works in China does not mean it doesn't exist.

 

Additionally, China is in the process of introducing a VAT system similar to the type used in Europe / UK. They are also in the process of introducing an annual property tax levy like that which is used in most places in the US. Both of these measures are highly unpopular and to make them more palatable, if at all possible, they will be introduced gradually.

 

On a related note, tax evasion is China is pervasive and of epidemic porportions amongst the Chinese population and the underground expat population. For those of us who work here legally, it is interesting to note that over 50% of Shanghai's individual income tax revenue comes from expat labor. Another way to look at it would be 50% of individual income tax revenue is paid by a < 1% segment of the population.

 

This tax evasion issue is finally getting the attention of high-level political leaders and now they are tying work permits / visas / residence permits into a database which already includes data from commercial banks and is soon to be tied into the tax bureau's own system.

 

Bill, I was expecting my income tax to be in the 25% range or higher. It's actually been around 13%.

[GZBILL]

this thread is confusing

 

income tax is on a sliding scale in China, Jin says most (workers) dont pay anything.

 

They pay a small amount for pention, thats about it.

 

 

property tax she says has never heard of it, no-one in her family has ever paid it.

 

 

she says there is no tax on stuff you buy from shops.

 

 

All I can say is you guys must be living, visiting, working for and buying houses/goods in the wrong places or through the wrong poeple.

No sure, but I do believe there's a different set of tax rules for expats working and living in China, Rob.

 

Also it is a possibility that the taxes are embedded so that the people do not realize it.

 

Yes, individual income tax is on a sliding scale basis according to how much you earn. For Chinese people, the threshold under which no ITT is levied is approximately 1,200 RMB per month. For expats it is approximately 4,800 RMB per month. Regardless of your salary amount, all Chinese people pay into the social insurance schemes. Expats, unless you have permanent residence, are not allowed to pay into the social insurance schemes.

 

There is property tax unless you are dealing with farmland used to cultivate crops. There is no way to get around it. Whether you realize you are paying it or not is another issue.

 

As for sales tax, it is, indeed, embedded into the price of goods. So is the assessment for fapiaos as well as, obviously, business income tax and, in some cases, a turnover tax based on a percentage of a company's entire turnover for the year. Most people never realize they are paying these taxes as it is not like in the US where in most places prices are quoted as $1.99 + tax. The fact that most people are ignorant as to how the sales tax system works in China does not mean it doesn't exist.

 

Additionally, China is in the process of introducing a VAT system similar to the type used in Europe / UK. They are also in the process of introducing an annual property tax levy like that which is used in most places in the US. Both of these measures are highly unpopular and to make them more palatable, if at all possible, they will be introduced gradually.

 

On a related note, tax evasion is China is pervasive and of epidemic porportions amongst the Chinese population and the underground expat population. For those of us who work here legally, it is interesting to note that over 50% of Shanghai's individual income tax revenue comes from expat labor. Another way to look at it would be 50% of individual income tax revenue is paid by a < 1% segment of the population.

 

This tax evasion issue is finally getting the attention of high-level political leaders and now they are tying work permits / visas / residence permits into a database which already includes data from commercial banks and is soon to be tied into the tax bureau's own system.

 

Bill, I was expecting my income tax to be in the 25% range or higher. It's actually been around 13%.

 

It depends on how much you earn.

 

It goes from 5% to 45% in five-percent increments. To pay 15% or less, you're earning less than 10,000 RMB. Not particularly attractive, but then it depends on your lifestyle and financial committments.

 

Mine is 45%.

Edited November 2, 2008 by GZBILL (see edit history)

[GZBILL]

and the tax evasion of business and the corruption of their friends in Government and the politicians too . right

 

True. Very true.

 

Tax evasion permeates through all levels of society here: from the lowest laborer to the highest level of government. True equality.

[GZBILL]

Individual Income Tax Rates

 

(Applicable to income from wages and salaries)

 

Grade Monthly Taxable Income Tax Rate(%)

 

1 Income of 500 yuan or less 5

 

2 That part of income in excess of 500 to 2,000 yuan 10

 

3 That part of income in excess of 2,000 to 5,000 yuan 15

 

4 That part of income in excess of 5,000 to 20,000 yuan 20

 

5 That part of income in excess of 20,000 to 40,000 yuan 25

 

6 That part of income in excess of 40,000 to 60,000 yuan 30

 

7 That part of income in excess of 60,000 to 80,000 yuan 35

 

8 That part of income in excess of 80,000 to 100,000 yuan 40

 

9 That part of income in excess of 100,000 yuan 45

 

(Note: "Monthly taxable income" mentioned in this schedule refers to the amount remaining after deduction of 1,600 (4,800 for expats) yuan for expenses or an additional deduction of expenses from monthly income in accordance with the provisions of Article 6 of this Law.)

 

=====

 

Not sure of this is the latest schedule, but at first glance it seems to be.

 

There is virtually no system for itemization and no need for a tax refund scheme.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

this thread is confusing

 

income tax is on a sliding scale in China, Jin says most (workers) dont pay anything.

 

They pay a small amount for pention, thats about it.

 

 

property tax she says has never heard of it, no-one in her family has ever paid it.

 

 

she says there is no tax on stuff you buy from shops.

 

 

All I can say is you guys must be living, visiting, working for and buying houses/goods in the wrong places or through the wrong poeple.

No sure, but I do believe there's a different set of tax rules for expats working and living in China, Rob.

 

Also it is a possibility that the taxes are embedded so that the people do not realize it.

 

Yes, individual income tax is on a sliding scale basis according to how much you earn. For Chinese people, the threshold under which no ITT is levied is approximately 1,200 RMB per month. For expats it is approximately 4,800 RMB per month. Regardless of your salary amount, all Chinese people pay into the social insurance schemes. Expats, unless you have permanent residence, are not allowed to pay into the social insurance schemes.

 

There is property tax unless you are dealing with farmland used to cultivate crops. There is no way to get around it. Whether you realize you are paying it or not is another issue.

 

As for sales tax, it is, indeed, embedded into the price of goods. So is the assessment for fapiaos as well as, obviously, business income tax and, in some cases, a turnover tax based on a percentage of a company's entire turnover for the year. Most people never realize they are paying these taxes as it is not like in the US where in most places prices are quoted as $1.99 + tax. The fact that most people are ignorant as to how the sales tax system works in China does not mean it doesn't exist.

 

Additionally, China is in the process of introducing a VAT system similar to the type used in Europe / UK. They are also in the process of introducing an annual property tax levy like that which is used in most places in the US. Both of these measures are highly unpopular and to make them more palatable, if at all possible, they will be introduced gradually.

 

On a related note, tax evasion is China is pervasive and of epidemic porportions amongst the Chinese population and the underground expat population. For those of us who work here legally, it is interesting to note that over 50% of Shanghai's individual income tax revenue comes from expat labor. Another way to look at it would be 50% of individual income tax revenue is paid by a < 1% segment of the population.

 

This tax evasion issue is finally getting the attention of high-level political leaders and now they are tying work permits / visas / residence permits into a database which already includes data from commercial banks and is soon to be tied into the tax bureau's own system.

 

Bill, I was expecting my income tax to be in the 25% range or higher. It's actually been around 13%.

 

It depends on how much you earn.

 

It goes from 5% to 45% in five-percent increments. To pay 15% or less, you're earning less than 10,000 RMB. Not particularly attractive, but then it depends on your lifestyle and financial committments.

 

Mine is 45%.

 

Yes, so the tax tables state. I can assure you that I'm earning substantially more than 10K RMB per month. I don't expect that I will be telling them any time soon to make sure they add me to the 45% tax bracket either...

 

 

 

B)

Edited November 2, 2008 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[GZBILL]

this thread is confusing

 

income tax is on a sliding scale in China, Jin says most (workers) dont pay anything.

 

They pay a small amount for pention, thats about it.

 

 

property tax she says has never heard of it, no-one in her family has ever paid it.

 

 

she says there is no tax on stuff you buy from shops.

 

 

All I can say is you guys must be living, visiting, working for and buying houses/goods in the wrong places or through the wrong poeple.

No sure, but I do believe there's a different set of tax rules for expats working and living in China, Rob.

 

Yes, the tax rules are slightly in China for expats.

 

Although the table I posted is pretty much accurate, the basic differences are that for Chinese citizens the first approximately 1,200 of their income per month is tax free. For expats it is something like 4,800.

 

Another difference is that Chinese citizens and permanent residents pay into the Chinese social insurance schemes and also obtain additional medical insurance underwritten by Chinese insurance companies. Expats do not contribute and cannot obtain this type of medical insurance.

 

Still another difference is that, in theory, expats can reduce their net tax liability by approximately 35% against proof of payment for certain expenses such as: food, housing, medical care, education, transportation and anything that can be related to necessary for performance of your job (i.e. book and computer purchase). While this seems nice, the fact is that the vast majority of expats cannot avail themselves of this tax reduction.

 

Many times companies do not know about this provision of the tax law and refuse to facilitate the process necessary to obtain this tax reduction. Still other companies are aware of the process yet play dumb because they want to avoid the heavy administrative burden the process causes the employer.

[chilton747]

this thread is confusing

 

income tax is on a sliding scale in China, Jin says most (workers) dont pay anything.

 

They pay a small amount for pention, thats about it.

 

 

property tax she says has never heard of it, no-one in her family has ever paid it.

 

 

she says there is no tax on stuff you buy from shops.

 

 

All I can say is you guys must be living, visiting, working for and buying houses/goods in the wrong places or through the wrong poeple.

No sure, but I do believe there's a different set of tax rules for expats working and living in China, Rob.

 

Also it is a possibility that the taxes are embedded so that the people do not realize it.

 

Yes, individual income tax is on a sliding scale basis according to how much you earn. For Chinese people, the threshold under which no ITT is levied is approximately 1,200 RMB per month. For expats it is approximately 4,800 RMB per month. Regardless of your salary amount, all Chinese people pay into the social insurance schemes. Expats, unless you have permanent residence, are not allowed to pay into the social insurance schemes.

 

There is property tax unless you are dealing with farmland used to cultivate crops. There is no way to get around it. Whether you realize you are paying it or not is another issue.

 

As for sales tax, it is, indeed, embedded into the price of goods. So is the assessment for fapiaos as well as, obviously, business income tax and, in some cases, a turnover tax based on a percentage of a company's entire turnover for the year. Most people never realize they are paying these taxes as it is not like in the US where in most places prices are quoted as $1.99 + tax. The fact that most people are ignorant as to how the sales tax system works in China does not mean it doesn't exist.

 

Additionally, China is in the process of introducing a VAT system similar to the type used in Europe / UK. They are also in the process of introducing an annual property tax levy like that which is used in most places in the US. Both of these measures are highly unpopular and to make them more palatable, if at all possible, they will be introduced gradually.

 

On a related note, tax evasion is China is pervasive and of epidemic porportions amongst the Chinese population and the underground expat population. For those of us who work here legally, it is interesting to note that over 50% of Shanghai's individual income tax revenue comes from expat labor. Another way to look at it would be 50% of individual income tax revenue is paid by a < 1% segment of the population.

 

This tax evasion issue is finally getting the attention of high-level political leaders and now they are tying work permits / visas / residence permits into a database which already includes data from commercial banks and is soon to be tied into the tax bureau's own system.

 

Bill, I was expecting my income tax to be in the 25% range or higher. It's actually been around 13%.

 

It depends on how much you earn.

 

It goes from 5% to 45% in five-percent increments. To pay 15% or less, you're earning less than 10,000 RMB. Not particularly attractive, but then it depends on your lifestyle and financial committments.

 

Mine is 45%. B)

 

So the Chinese get 45% of your earned income each year?

[rogerluli]

Bill what about expat retirees whose entire income is from pensions and investments outside of China???

[Randy W]

 

It depends on how much you earn.

 

It goes from 5% to 45% in five-percent increments. To pay 15% or less, you're earning less than 10,000 RMB. Not particularly attractive, but then it depends on your lifestyle and financial committments.

 

Mine is 45%.

 

So the Chinese get 45% of your earned income each year?

 

 

No -

That part of income in excess of 100,000 yuan 45

 

Just like in the US, if you're in the 45% tax bracket, it means each additional dollar is taxed at 45%.

 

Say, you earned 100,000RMB and paid 15,000RMB in taxes. Your tax bracket (or tax rate) would be 45%, but you would only pay 15% of your total income in taxes. This is a prgressive rate structure, similar to what we have in the US.

 

 

Jesse's 15% is probably an overall 15% of his income, and NOT his tax bracket.

Edited November 2, 2008 by Randy W (see edit history)

[rogerluli]

 

It depends on how much you earn.

 

It goes from 5% to 45% in five-percent increments. To pay 15% or less, you're earning less than 10,000 RMB. Not particularly attractive, but then it depends on your lifestyle and financial committments.

 

Mine is 45%.

 

So the Chinese get 45% of your earned income each year?

 

 

No -

That part of income in excess of 100,000 yuan 45

 

Just like in the US, if you're in the 45% tax bracket, it means each additional dollar is taxed at 45%.

 

Jesse's 15% is probably an overall 15% of his income, and NOT his tax bracket.

 

Still paying taxes here and there has got to be a major bite...