Blue slip the Blue letter of denial

[TheMace]

Well I have been hoping to hear from someone who as gone down this road. We were given a blue slip at the interview requesting statements of how when and where my fiancee and I met. ex-wife's (also Chinese) info, ssn, address, telephone number, how, when, where we met, when married, when divorced. Made the statements, got them notarized and sent to GUZ. Thirty days later a blue letter stating not a bona fide relationship, papers would at somepoing be returned to the USCIS for review and possible revocation.

 

How ever it seems no one has gone this rout which we are about to undertake.

 

I am returning to Chongqing, take my finacee to Chengdu to show the U.S. Consulate our divorce papers from ex's, return to Chongqing and get married, then file a I-130 and see it we get the same reply "NOT A BONA FIDE RELATIONSHIP". If we do, then we will have to resort to plane C. I will be 60 this month, my fiancee has just turned 54. If she is not allowed into the U.S. on th I-130 then as I told one of the guys on this web the government can kiss my ***, I send the Social Security Administation my overseas address when I hit 65 and say good by to this country. Hopefully China will allow us to be together, but it not, there are a lot of other countries out there to ask. We really do not care which one will take us in.

 

We are not waiting for a possible never to be receive NOID, and years of wondering where we are in this system.

 

Gary

[heyjimi]

Well I have been hoping to hear from someone who as gone down this road. We were given a blue slip at the interview requesting statements of how when and where my fiancee and I met. ex-wife's (also Chinese) info, ssn, address, telephone number, how, when, where we met, when married, when divorced. Made the statements, got them notarized and sent to GUZ. Thirty days later a blue letter stating not a bona fide relationship, papers would at somepoing be returned to the USCIS for review and possible revocation.

 

How ever it seems no one has gone this rout which we are about to undertake.

 

I am returning to Chongqing, take my finacee to Chengdu to show the U.S. Consulate our divorce papers from ex's, return to Chongqing and get married, then file a I-130 and see it we get the same reply "NOT A BONA FIDE RELATIONSHIP". If we do, then we will have to resort to plane C. I will be 60 this month, my fiancee has just turned 54. If she is not allowed into the U.S. on th I-130 then as I told one of the guys on this web the government can kiss my ***, I send the Social Security Administation my overseas address when I hit 65 and say good by to this country. Hopefully China will allow us to be together, but it not, there are a lot of other countries out there to ask. We really do not care which one will take us in.

 

We are not waiting for a possible never to be receive NOID, and years of wondering where we are in this system.

 

Gary

 

why,did they state,you do not have a bona fide relationship?

I wish the best for you.

 

jimi

[Guest Rob & Jin]

You have in effect got a "NOID", you got a lot of replies from very knowledgeable members in your other posts on the other forums.

 

You can wait for the chance for appeal (if they give you that chance), remember you cannot abandon the K-1 visa, it could bite you in the ass if you did that.

 

You can file CR-1 and hope for pink this time, there is no guarantee of success.

 

You can move there.

 

you could marry in HK , she live there and interview through HK (something changed in HK recently, Dan or Randy will remember)

 

Those are the legal options.

 

 

Your concentration is to address (in whatever path you take) the reason(s) for them believing your relationship was not bona fide and proving them wrong.

 

Good luck

[TheMace]

Rob,

 

I was told by other members a CR-1 and I-130 are the same thing.

She does not live in HK she live in Chongqing.

As you said I can wait for a chance to appeal, if a chance ever comes.

Hard to address the issue if they do not give us the reason they made the determination of not a bona fide relationship.

yes, many replies, but with many different suggestions.

 

Thanks for your reply

 

 

 

You have in effect got a "NOID", you got a lot of replies from very knowledgeable members in your other posts on the other forums.

 

You can wait for the chance for appeal (if they give you that chance), remember you cannot abandon the K-1 visa, it could bite you in the ass if you did that.

 

You can file CR-1 and hope for pink this time, there is no guarantee of success.

 

You can move there.

 

you could marry in HK , she live there and interview through HK (something changed in HK recently, Dan or Randy will remember)

 

Those are the legal options.

 

 

Your concentration is to address (in whatever path you take) the reason(s) for them believing your relationship was not bona fide and proving them wrong.

 

Good luck

[TheMace]

We were not give a reason for their decission.

 

Well I have been hoping to hear from someone who as gone down this road. We were given a blue slip at the interview requesting statements of how when and where my fiancee and I met. ex-wife's (also Chinese) info, ssn, address, telephone number, how, when, where we met, when married, when divorced. Made the statements, got them notarized and sent to GUZ. Thirty days later a blue letter stating not a bona fide relationship, papers would at somepoing be returned to the USCIS for review and possible revocation.

 

How ever it seems no one has gone this rout which we are about to undertake.

 

I am returning to Chongqing, take my finacee to Chengdu to show the U.S. Consulate our divorce papers from ex's, return to Chongqing and get married, then file a I-130 and see it we get the same reply "NOT A BONA FIDE RELATIONSHIP". If we do, then we will have to resort to plane C. I will be 60 this month, my fiancee has just turned 54. If she is not allowed into the U.S. on th I-130 then as I told one of the guys on this web the government can kiss my ***, I send the Social Security Administation my overseas address when I hit 65 and say good by to this country. Hopefully China will allow us to be together, but it not, there are a lot of other countries out there to ask. We really do not care which one will take us in.

 

We are not waiting for a possible never to be receive NOID, and years of wondering where we are in this system.

 

Gary

 

why,did they state,you do not have a bona fide relationship?

I wish the best for you.

 

jimi

[LeeFisher3]

Rob,

 

I was told by other members a CR-1 and I-130 are the same thing.

She does not live in HK she live in Chongqing.

As you said I can wait for a chance to appeal, if a chance ever comes.

Hard to address the issue if they do not give us the reason they made the determination of not a bona fide relationship.

yes, many replies, but with many different suggestions.

 

Thanks for your reply

The real difficulty is that filing for CR-1 or K-3 can be delayed indefinitely, either in the US or in GZ until the NOID question is resolved on the K-1 case.

[NUWORLD]

Rob,

 

I was told by other members a CR-1 and I-130 are the same thing.

She does not live in HK she live in Chongqing.

As you said I can wait for a chance to appeal, if a chance ever comes.

Hard to address the issue if they do not give us the reason they made the determination of not a bona fide relationship.

yes, many replies, but with many different suggestions.

 

Thanks for your reply

The real difficulty is that filing for CR-1 or K-3 can be delayed indefinitely, either in the US or in GZ until the NOID question is resolved on the K-1 case.

 

Like Lee said:

 

The real difficulty is that filing for CR-1 or K-3 can be delayed indefinitely, either in the US or in GZ until the NOID question is resolved on the K-1 case.

 

You may want to PM chilton747 (Charles) He has been down this road before.

He is a good man and a good friend of mine.

 

By the way my wife is also from Chongqing and we went the CR1 route.

Like i said PM chilton747.

 

Mike.

Edited September 10, 2008 by NUWORLD (see edit history)

[splinterman]

Well I have been hoping to hear from someone who as gone down this road. We were given a blue slip at the interview requesting statements of how when and where my fiancee and I met. ex-wife's (also Chinese) info, ssn, address, telephone number, how, when, where we met, when married, when divorced. Made the statements, got them notarized and sent to GUZ. Thirty days later a blue letter stating not a bona fide relationship, papers would at somepoing be returned to the USCIS for review and possible revocation.

 

How ever it seems no one has gone this rout which we are about to undertake.

 

I am returning to Chongqing, take my finacee to Chengdu to show the U.S. Consulate our divorce papers from ex's, return to Chongqing and get married, then file a I-130 and see it we get the same reply "NOT A BONA FIDE RELATIONSHIP". If we do, then we will have to resort to plane C. I will be 60 this month, my fiancee has just turned 54. If she is not allowed into the U.S. on th I-130 then as I told one of the guys on this web the government can kiss my ***, I send the Social Security Administation my overseas address when I hit 65 and say good by to this country. Hopefully China will allow us to be together, but it not, there are a lot of other countries out there to ask. We really do not care which one will take us in.

 

We are not waiting for a possible never to be receive NOID, and years of wondering where we are in this system.

 

Gary

[splinterman]

Well I have been hoping to hear from someone who as gone down this road. We were given a blue slip at the interview requesting statements of how when and where my fiancee and I met. ex-wife's (also Chinese) info, ssn, address, telephone number, how, when, where we met, when married, when divorced. Made the statements, got them notarized and sent to GUZ. Thirty days later a blue letter stating not a bona fide relationship, papers would at somepoing be returned to the USCIS for review and possible revocation.

 

How ever it seems no one has gone this rout which we are about to undertake.

 

I am returning to Chongqing, take my finacee to Chengdu to show the U.S. Consulate our divorce papers from ex's, return to Chongqing and get married, then file a I-130 and see it we get the same reply "NOT A BONA FIDE RELATIONSHIP". If we do, then we will have to resort to plane C. I will be 60 this month, my fiancee has just turned 54. If she is not allowed into the U.S. on th I-130 then as I told one of the guys on this web the government can kiss my ***, I send the Social Security Administation my overseas address when I hit 65 and say good by to this country. Hopefully China will allow us to be together, but it not, there are a lot of other countries out there to ask. We really do not care which one will take us in.

 

We are not waiting for a possible never to be receive NOID, and years of wondering where we are in this system.

 

Gary

[splinterman]

Gary, my fiancee interviewed in Guangzhou on 8/21/08 and the first 2 questions she was asked were, "Do you know your fiancee had been arrested?" (in 1994 for a simple summary offense, that was declared to the DHS in my petition and subsequently approved by them. There were no other arrests since then) followed by, "You know this and you still want to marry him?" and she answered "yes" to both questions. She was then asked a few other questions: where do you work and what do you do, where does your fiancee work and what does he do, how did you meet/when did you first meet?, how many times has your fiancee come to China? She was only asked to show my I-134 form and some pictures. I had hired an immigration lawyer at the beginning of our visa petition process and he had advised her to show them ONLY what they ask to see-if they don't ask for it, don't show it. She had a folder full of emails, phone bills, receipts for purchases we made together in Nanning, boarding passes from a few flights we took together to visit Beijing during my trip last summer, etc. but they didn't ask her for any additional evidence of our relationship. At the end of the interview they refused her a visa, telling her that under INA 221 (g) we didn't have a 'bona fide relationship, and that the file would be returned to USCIS in the States for review and possible revocation. There was no mention of any allowance on their part for her to provide additional evidence and as a matter of fact they stated on the refusal form that no additional evidence would be considered at Guangzhou, nor would they respond to any emails, phone calls or correspondence from either Lijuan or me. If we wanted any more details about the reasons for refusal we would have to wait until the file was received by USCIS in the States.

At this time, my lawyer is preparing a legal brief arguing the legality of what they have done and what they are now doing (returning the file to USCIS without allowance for submission of additional evidence at Guangzhou) and I have also contacted my Senator's office, who has sent 2 emails to Guangzhou asking them to hold the file until the attorney can respond with the brief.

It is disconcerting that the senator has no authority at all over the Consulate to get them to hold the file until a response can be provided. It is equally discouraging that the Consulate Officer is in violation of the INA and the FAM and there is nothing that can be done to check the Consulate's action which will result in additional months of delay until USCIS again approves the petition and the Consulate schedules my fiancee for another interview.

I firmly believe that the Interview Officer knew well before my fiancee attended her interview that she would be refused a visa, and I also believe that the 14 year-old minor summary conviction played a large part in the visa refusal, even though it had been declared in the original petition to the DHS and had been approved by them. The fact that they asked only a few questions and only to see my I-134 and some photos, without asking if there was any other evidence of our relationship tells me that they already had their minds made up and were just going through the motions by granting her an interview.

Since the refusal I have been doing a lot of research on the INA, the CFR and the FAM regulations and it is obvious they have violated the law AND their own procedural regulations by not allowing my fiancee a time period to respond to their concern of the lack of a 'bona fide' relationship with additional evidence and also returning the file to USCIS without a review. A visa refusal under INA 221(g) is nothing more than a generic reason for a refusal that masks another real reason that the ConOffs know they do not have the authority to use, so they give this BS reason that has the effect of adding more time (and possibly additional expense) to the process. They know in the end that they will have to grant the visa but for now it lets them off the hook. It is interesting to note that USCIS internal correspondence actually prohibits the refusal of a K-1 visa on the premise of the NATURE of a relationship between the Petitioner and the Beneficiary, unless the ConOff has discovered clear and compelling evidence of misrepresentation or fraud, or evidence of same that was not available to the DHS at the time the original petition was approved.

For those of you who have not retained the services of a good immigration attorney, if you have been 'victimized' by the State Department as I have been, you are facing additional delay and possibly even additional costs in overcoming this hurdle if you have been swept up in the INA 221(g) game. If you reach this point, you may want to consider hiring a lawyer to get past this hurdle as quickly as possible.

A last piece of information I would like to share with everyone is if you are or have already begun the process of a K-1 or K-3 visa application, an excellent resource that can answer all your "what if' questions is the book "Fiance and Marriage Visas" by Llona Bray, available on the NOLO website for about $24.00. It's worth the money. It has sample forms and instructions on which forms you will need and how to complete them, line item by line item.

I apologize to everyone for the length of this post but I think it is important to others involved in the visa process, especially those at the Consulate Interview stage or those shortly to go through it, to be as detailed and precise as I can be in order to provide you the benefits of those who have gone before you and discovered what lies in store.

To all of you I wish you the best of luck!!

 

Sincerely,

Warren

Splinterman@verizon.net

[Randy W]

Thr INA 221(g) "game" is the one that works. It WILL be sent back to the states with a recommendation for revocation that the USCIS may or may not act on.

 

In the meantime, your case is in 'lockdown'

 

Watch your mailbox for any communication from the USCIS. It MUST be acted upon.

 

Good luck

Edited September 15, 2008 by Randy W (see edit history)

[chilton747]

Thr INA 221(g) "game" is the one that works. It WILL be sent back to the states with a recommendation for revocation that the USCIS may or may not act on.

 

In the meantime, your case is in 'lockdown'

 

Watch your mailbox for any communication from the USCIS. It MUST be acted upon.

 

Good luck

 

And I'll add to Randy's post, if you filed through the California Service Center then you will never hear from them again.

 

Sorry to hear of your troubles Warren.

[georgeandli]

splinterman, You are correct[of couse you know that] what you are not considering is that GUZ[DOS] and USCIS are different branches. GUZ is above any oversight. They fly by their own rules.