China and CANDLE

[rogerluli]

I'm kinda puzzled....again.

 

I do see all posts that are deleted since they end up in the mod's forum. There have been very few and those that were deserved to be deleted. Personal attacks, etc.

 

Nothing in the guidelines say you can only post 'feel good' items. Nor does it say bashing is allowed (welcomed); quite the contrary. Any strongly expressed opinion will have another member who disagrees just as strongly. As long as there is reasoned debate, no harm, no foul. Anyone can state their opinion, but be ready to hear an opposing opinion. As long as it doesn't become personal, it will remain.

 

Some seem to think that China is Utopia and the US is hell. Actually, both have a lot of pluses as well as negatives. Seems to me it's fair game to discuss both.

 

Personally, I really don't care for the thought of living in China. Others, like Rog, plan on retiring there. I do enjoy short visits and think China is truly a great country, but it ain't a place I want to call home.

 

My first China trip left me enamored. Each successive trip gave me different impressions and I finally ended up being quite satisfied as an infrequent tourist. So what you will hear from me on the topic of China is both praise and criticism.

 

Thanks Don...

Just what I said... It just took you longer...

 

OOps almost forgot I'll send you that key to our Hainan place posthaste...

Edited July 26, 2008 by rogerluli (see edit history)

[rogerluli]

One other point; on the number of guests in the online list. One time I saw roughly 140 guests using the very same IP address. It tracks back to a Chinese web crawler. In the interest of privacy, we don't display IP addresses but they are available to mods - except Roggie.

 

Don't assume that each guest is a unique individual.

 

Hold on a sec...

 

 

I mean if I am not a unique individual then who is???

 

But I sure am glad to get all this settled and go back to actually talking about China as opposed to talking about talking about China...

[Guest lilac6451]

All media are liars. They are only here to serve as a tool for the government to fool its people.

 

I have so many cases to prove it that I can only give you a few.

 

1.When the riot happened in Tibet this year, instead of reporting the event honestly and condemning the few monks who are killing the civilians and destroying the infrastructure, almost all the media here reprehended our government for human rights problems against most people's will..... until the Chinese people in America began to protest against the slanders from the American media and some brave ones even went to the court to sue the media for big compensation.... Then they shut up.... I figure that they cant finish their story on this one...

 

2. I used to think BBC is great until I heard they reported that in China people are killing people for organs..what a twisted squalid slander... I feel sick even to hear that...

 

 

I think the main reason to forbid the western media from reporting China objectively is because our government is socialism. Once we adopt capitalism, all will be fine, no negative reports, any more, like Japan, South Korean...

[Dennis143]

All media are liars. They are only here to serve as a tool for the government to fool its people.

 

I have so many cases to prove it that I can only give you a few.

 

1.When the riot happened in Tibet this year, instead of reporting the event honestly and condemning the few monks who are killing the civilians and destroying the infrastructure, almost all the media here reprehended our government for human rights problems against most people's will..... until the Chinese people in America began to protest against the slanders from the American media and some brave ones even went to the court to sue the media for big compensation.... Then they shut up.... I figure that they cant finish their story on this one...

 

2. I used to think BBC is great until I heard they reported that in China people are killing people for organs..what a twisted squalid slander... I feel sick even to hear that...

 

 

I think the main reason to forbid the western media from reporting China objectively is because our government is socialism. Once we adopt capitalism, all will be fine, no negative reports, any more, like Japan, South Korean...

hmmm, I met an American man who claims he's been traveling to China to purchase a liver for himself. He further claims that the organ pools come primarily from convicted felons serving life sentences...

 

His Chinese girlfriend assists him on his travels. I don't know what to believe. I can only tell you what they have told me.

 

There's no question that China's Communist government controls the media, (China is not Socialist. They have no free elections that vote for a leader socialist or other) .

 

There are plenty of media where one can read reports and commentary with 'alternative' points of view. We simply need to use our own head to sort out what is the truth. Much easier said than done, however. The differing opinions voiced here on this board attests to that.

Edited July 26, 2008 by Dennis143 (see edit history)

[Guest lilac6451]

I met an American man who claims he's been traveling to China to purchase a liver for himself. He further claims that the organ pools come primarily from convicted felons serving life sentences...

 

It is different if you get organs from a criminal who is going to be executed.....Couple of days ago, I was watching the news from Foxnews, they said one patient is going to get a lung from New England, but the first trip was a failure because when the doctors came back with it, it had died already, anyway, they finally got the organ from Puerto rico... that put me into curiosity: how and from who do they get the organs from?

 

But according to my experience living in China, most of the patients get the organs, if needed, from family memebers.

 

 

I met an American man who claims he's been traveling to China to purchase a liver for himself. He further claims that the organ pools come primarily from convicted felons serving life sentences...

 

Why did Americans go to China to buy organs?

Edited July 26, 2008 by lilac6451 (see edit history)

[Guest lilac6451]

There's no question that China's Communist government controls the media,

 

Yes, in a different way from American government, though

[IllinoisDave]

Just because someone posts a view,whether fact or opinion, that doesn't coincide with yours doesn't make it China bashing. Just because it's something that you don't particularly want to hear or believe doesn't make it China bashing.

 

Some people here want to hear nothing but the positive aspects of China. And there are MANY positive aspects to China. I don't think anyone could spend the amount of time there that most of us have and not come away with wonderful memories and positive impressions of our SO's homeland.

 

But that's not all there is to China. It does have it's warts like any other country. And if you think pointing out those warts from time to time to provide some perspective is bashing, then you're criticism threshold is WAY too low.

 

Just so we're clear. I LOVE China, and not just because it's the place where the woman I love happens to be from. I love it because of the experiences I've had on my visits there, the people I've met, the sights I've seen and the food I've eaten.

 

I don't have to prove my affection for China to ANYONE here, just as I don't have to prove my affection for this country. I've written far more positive things about China than things that someone may consider negative. And as there are plenty of positive aspects to China there are plenty of negatives ones as well. And until Don changes the policy or the rules, no one here is under any obligation to refrain from pointing them out, including me.

 

I'm a realist. I prefer to deal in facts and reality rather than fiction and fantasy. That goes for everything; religion, politics,sports and China. Despite what some here have claimed, I don't think I know everything. But I'll say this, when I point out what I consider to be a fact you can damn well believe that I've made every effort to make sure that it is a fact. You're more than welcome to prove me wrong. And if I state an opinion, you can be sure it's earnest and made with every effort to be based in fact. You're equally as free to disagree with any opinion I offer.

 

Some have complained they don't post anymore or post less because of what they consider to be "bashing." I'll bet there are many who do the same because of the wrath they've incurred by daring to point out the less-than-positive sides of China. Likewise, many claim to lose interest or become disenchanted with too much political talk from one side or the other.

 

Well I'm stickin around. If I feel like something positive about China needs to be said, I will. I'll also feel free to add some perspective from the negative side if I think it's warranted. And if I think a certain politically-charged thread needs some balance from the left to offset the predominantly right-leaning membership, I'll do that too.

 

I don't start political threads. I don't start China-bashing threads. But I intend to continue to add my perspective/opinion to any thread I feel I can add something to. One day I may decide that I"m tired of dealing with the China-can-do-no-wrong folks or the right wing noise machine. Or Don may decide for me. But that day ain't here yet.

[Guest Rob & Jin]

There's no question that China's Communist government controls the media,

 

Yes, in a different way from American government, though

 

 

just to correct you a little Lilac, the govt in the USA does not control the media. The big corporations do and they are amongst the folks who sponser and lobby the elected officials who make the laws.

[izus]

Just because someone posts a view,whether fact or opinion, that doesn't coincide with yours doesn't make it China bashing. Just because it's something that you don't particularly want to hear or believe doesn't make it China bashing.

 

thats why i wrote my the second post right after i posted the opening thread...

 

Different people have different perspectives on life and I suppose CANDLE works for us all.

[Randy W]

Just because someone posts a view,whether fact or opinion, that doesn't coincide with yours doesn't make it China bashing. Just because it's something that you don't particularly want to hear or believe doesn't make it China bashing.

 

thats why i wrote my the second post right after i posted the opening thread...

 

Different people have different perspectives on life and I suppose CANDLE works for us all.

 

 

The full quote:

 

maybe CANDLE is the outlet for them to complain about life and how miserable they are. Different people have different perspective on life and I suppose CANDLE works for us all.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

It should be pretty clear to most that different people have different perspectives on whatever they experience. I've been fortunate to have a good life in America. I have a great wife, whom I believe in my heart is the most beautiful woman in the world. I was able to bring Lan and Sarah to the US. We had a good home, Lan was able to get her drivers license and have her own car. Sarah was on top honors at her local High School.

 

Both of them had a good life in China before I came into the picture. But, there was something missing for both of us. We were then lucky enough to find each other. Lan, Sarah and I all LOVE China; and we also LOVE America. We had a good opportunity to improve our lives by moving here, and after thinking about it long and hard, decided to make the move.

 

Speaking of perspectives, I was never 100% positive about life in America. There are several things there I wish were different, but I found the best way to deal with that was to focus on what was good and live the happiest life I could. Maybe, just maybe some of that would be noticed by my family. It would be tough to be around me if I didn't at least make effort to find the good after something in life went awry.

 

Life is good for us here. Just as in America, after we complain and whine are capable of finding the good side. It's not too hard to do when in your heart you love the people and the country.

 

Edited July 26, 2008 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[IllinoisDave]

I'm gonna try this one more time and then I'm done explaining myself.

 

Pointing out what you consider to be negative aspects of China in the context of a discussion about China does not make you miserable about your life. I'm incredibly happy with my life due in large part to the woman I met in China who,as long as she'll have me, I plan on spending the rest of that life with.

 

Making the occasional point about the negatives associated with life in China or the US has no bearing on my relative happiness. OK? Anyone trying to gauge the level of someone else's happiness in life based on what they post here is making some pretty shallow assumptions IMHO.

 

And pointing out FACTUAL negative aspects of China or the US from time to time does not mean you're incapable of finding the good sides of China or the US. Some people prefer to focus only on the positive aspects of wherever they are. Good for them. I prefer to focus on neither the good nor the bad, but the one that's relevant at the time, whether it's in my life or in a discussion on Candle. I think that being open to both allows me to learn more and become a more well-rounded person.

 

That's just my personal outlook on life. I'm sorry if it's not rosy enough for you.

[rogerluli]

Just because someone posts a view,whether fact or opinion, that doesn't coincide with yours doesn't make it China bashing. Just because it's something that you don't particularly want to hear or believe doesn't make it China bashing.

 

thats why i wrote my the second post right after i posted the opening thread...

 

Different people have different perspectives on life and I suppose CANDLE works for us all.

 

 

The full quote:

 

maybe CANDLE is the outlet for them to complain about life and how miserable they are. Different people have different perspective on life and I suppose CANDLE works for us all.

 

Thanks Randy for reminding us what Bill actually wrote rather than what he now wishes he had written...

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

 

Thanks Randy for reminding us what Bill actually wrote rather than what he now wishes he had written...

 

Yes, it's ever so important to see what Bill wrote for his first post on this thread. It comes from a man who opened his heart.

 

At first I was not going to write this at all, then I thought I would like to say my piece but not instantly have it shot down, then i thought maybe I¡¯ll write it in Chinese....but what good would that do?

 

I really enjoy reading CANDLE and it just bothers me that some of the members here just ruin it for a lot of the others. I have actually been threatened for posts I¡¯ve made, but that¡¯s another thread.

For one, I would really like to see more Chinese opinions on this website, because that was the idea for me originally joining the forum, to learn more about the chinese culture. I love Eunice's and Joanne's posts.

 

One of the things I am constantly being bothered about CANDLE is the amount of negativity about life in general that is present here. It embarrasses me to think that a Chinese person with no western background or influence will think that this is our typical American attitude. I find myself constantly reading about people who seem to enjoy pointing out all the problems that China has and of course all the issues that circle this country of ours. On top of that somehow even when we begin other posts about things that have nothing to do with these topics they somehow find their way back to the same trash bin. Now I¡¯m not saying CANDLE as a whole, there are some very positive members and threads here and quite a few posters who you can always expect an interesting read. I think one of the comments I read that really drew me to this subject said something like ¡°you can¡¯t handle the truth¡± of course there is going to be negativity in our lives. Out of the 90% or so of the people on CANDLE claim to have found the love of their life from China, should not they see the light through all the darkness that is in today¡¯s word. I promise that you can focus on things a lot better in the light then you can in the dark. My wife and I just decide to focus on Jesus Christ which makes it much easier for us to see the positive things in our lives and what is around us, but that¡¯s another topic I¡¯ve learned to try to stay clear of on these boards. Of course to have only negative things in your mind all day not only clogs your heart from the light but wastes your energy and also is terrible for every vital organ in your body. It seems to me there is just a better way of living than to always be looking for some sort of fight.

You would think the people who have decided to marry and accept a Chinese spouse to have different thoughts and feelings about China. You would think they would try to stay open minded and learn as much as possible about his or her family and her customs. You would think they would try to learn the language, try to see life through her eyes the way it was for her and maybe still is. Not all bad, not all good. The main reason of why I love China so much and I say it every time I return is I love the people who make up Beijing. Every time I am there I am overwhelmed with the genuine ways of the average person. I have never run into a problem with someone in Beijing everyone is always extremely friendly to me and very excited to see I try to speak with them. There are too many people in world today who don¡¯t know all the good in China and like to speak lies about it. Call it jealousy or call it whatever you want. But we are the ones who should be sticking up for our spouse¡¯s country. We are the ones who should be explaining all the positive things about the people and about how beautiful China is. The perseverance and positive thinking is what makes the Chinese one of the most unique individuals on this planet. Since we love our wives so much as we say we do let¡¯s act like it and start telling everyone how special China and the Chinese people really are. I¡¯m sure there are plenty of good things we can say rather than talk bad about the Middle Country. Candle should be the perfect canvas for just that.

[Sebastian]

I think the one thing that we have in common is that we have a chinese SO, be it girlfriend or wife.

 

With that in mind, at some point, EVERYONE starts to learn about China, and how things are done in China, and your SO's take on it all.

 

As our relationships develop, we find (IMO) that the american learns more about china and chinese culture, and the chinese learns more about America, as these two people are thrown together by LOVE.

 

Strange things pop up, everyone finds anomolies, most try to seek some common ground and learn about each other, in the hope of building a solid foundation for an intercultural marriage.

 

Past all that? members spewing here on CFL? Hey - you've found an anomoly topic - it's good to talk about it, right? Share your experience, share your info to the other members here, perhaps someone can benefit by reading about these anomolies and the opposing views on same.

 

You've already made a decision to marry a chinese person - doesn't it make sense to learn about that culture, both it's good points and bad points, in some hope of easing the transition for your SO once she's landed in the USA ??? Somehow I think it makes sense to learn these things, and help your SO learn a bit about American culture as well, so that 'things' that will pop up between you, that might seem a personal damnable offense, won't wind up being so severe as to cause reason for divorce.

 

I'm guilty of China Bashing on a few fronts, but for me, personally and professionally, I've lived through things that dip into the realm of 'intellectual property theft' and usually will bend my lance in that direction. It's affected my income stream on a personal level, and whilst I try to stay OUT of a debate about it, sometimes I'll come unhinged here because of my personal experience with the theft of MY intellectual property in China.

 

Others will point at the medical facilities, but if you haven't lived through a terrible medical problem in China, similar to Orrin's medical stuff, then you won't have cause to be concerned. If you get sick in China, you can be treated and cured. It may not be what you've been used to, but you'll be cured. Sure, there are exceptions, and no, mostly, you won't be able to use your USA-based medical insurance carrier that you picked up at your place of employment, but hey ! you can be cured !!!!

 

There's lots of topics for China Bashing. I suggest you, the gentle reader of my mild spew, try to remember WHY you are here at CFL - and try to remember the LOVE you have for your SO, and your desire to have her at your side.

 

and please don't forget !!! There's lots of topics about USA bashing, that most foreign folk have access to. How you gonna act and react when it becomes personal?? I think your primary reaction to 'that', really, should be the metric by which you can measure things.

 

Be Well, and Well Rested !!

 

PS - my apologies to the American Ladies here, I was gender specific and excluded you - it wasn't on purpose.

Edited July 27, 2008 by Darnell (see edit history)