question regarding CCP membership

[dnoblett]

its not a grey area, its a blue slip, easily overcome. Hiding it though could well turn it into a white for "misrepresentation" not worth the risk.

 

JMHO

Correct. Hiding this fact is considered misrepresentation, it can haunt you for the rest of your life, and if DHS ever catches on, they can Revoke Green-card OR even citizenship and deport.

 

(D) Immigrant membership in totalitarian party.-

 

(i) In general.-Any immigrant who is or has been a member of or affiliated with the Communist or any other totalitarian party (or subdivision or affiliate thereof), domestic or foreign, is inadmissible.

 

(ii) Exception for involuntary membership.- Clause (i) shall not apply to an alien because of membership or affiliation if the alien establishes to the satisfaction of the consular officer when applying for a visa (or to the satisfaction of the Attorney General when applying for admission) that the membership or affiliation is or was involuntary, or is or was solely when under 16 years of age, by operation of law, or for purposes of obtaining employment, food rations, or other essentials of living and whether necessary for such purposes.

 

(iii) Exception for past membership.-Clause (i) shall not apply to an alien because of membership or affiliation if the alien establishes to the satisfaction of the consular officer when applying for a visa (or to the satisfaction of the Attorney General when applying for admission) that-

 

(I) the membership or affiliation terminated at least-

 

(a ) 2 years before the date of such application, or

 

(b ) 5 years before the date of such application, in the case of an alien whose membership or affiliation was with the party controlling the government of a foreign state that is a totalitarian dictatorship as of such date, and

 

(II) the alien is not a threat to the security of the United States.

 

(iv) Exception for close family members.-The Attorney General may, in the Attorney General's discretion, waive the application of clause (i) in the case of an immigrant who is the parent, spouse, son, daughter, brother, or sister of a citizen of the United States or a spouse, son, or daughter of an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence for humanitarian purposes, to assure family unity, or when it is otherwise in the public interest if the immigrant is not a threat to the security of the United States.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/ineligib...ities_1364.html

 

Again this is easily overcome through a waiver that is requested by the counselor officer.

 

THIS WILL COME UP AGAIN:

I-485 for adjustment of status from the K-Visa

Part 3. Processing Information. (Continued)

 

Please answer the following questions. (If your answer is "Yes" on any one of these questions, explain on a separate piece of paper and refer to "What Are the General Filing Instructions? Initial Evidence" to determine what documentation to include with your application. Answering "Yes"

does not necessarily mean that you are not entitled to adjust status or register for permanent residence.)

 

6. Have you ever been a member of, or in any way affiliated with, the Communist Party or any other totalitarian party? (YES) (NO)

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-485.pdf

 

If you lie to get visa, and then later are honest when adjusting status, this will probably result in a denied green-card. If you lie for both and later the truth comes to light with DHS they can revoke green-card OR Citizenship.

Edited July 21, 2008 by dnoblett (see edit history)

[bob&haiqing]

Hello dnoblett,

 

Thanks for your input and more importantly thanks for blowing holes in my logic. As I mentioned in a previous post I would rather be asked the hard questions now amongst friends than to be blindsided later!

 

If I am interpreting this correctly, according to US law, a past CCP member is still considered to be a member unless they quit the party at least 2 years, or as long as 5 years depending on membership status, prior to filing for a visa.

 

Therefore, this being the case, any questions asked on the forms about being a current member of the CCP would have to be answered "YES" unless one quit at least 2 years, or 5 years depending on membership status, prior to being asked about it.

 

Given this fact it's just a shame that the waiver process can't be put into motion when one files the P3 package instead of having to go through the additional expense and time by having to wait for the interview and basically show up to say "hi, I'm here to get a blue slip and ask for a waiver.".

 

I think it would be pretty obvious that if you are listing CCP membership on your forms and/or answering "YES" on the questions that GUZ is not going to simply overlook it and give you a pink, sounds like it should be an automatic blue to me so why not allow people to fess up and start the waiver process early? Seems like it would save everyone a lot of time and frustration dealing with this issue.

 

I'm seriously considering attending an ACH meeting so I can tell them about our situation, ask if we've addressed it properly so we can avoid all future problems and ask why the waiver process can't be started earlier.

 

Thanks again for your input dnoblett, I really appreciate it!

 

Have a terrific day!

Bob

[Bill & Angel]

 

Thanks for your input and more importantly thanks for blowing holes in my logic. As I mentioned in a previous post I would rather be asked the hard questions now amongst friends than to be blindsided later!

 

If I am interpreting this correctly, according to US law, a past CCP member is still considered to be a member unless they quit the party at least 2 years, or as long as 5 years depending on membership status, prior to filing for a visa.

 

Therefore, this being the case, any questions asked on the forms about being a current member of the CCP would have to be answered "YES" unless one quit at least 2 years, or 5 years depending on membership status, prior to being asked about it.

 

Given this fact it's just a shame that the waiver process can't be put into motion when one files the P3 package instead of having to go through the additional expense and time by having to wait for the interview and basically show up to say "hi, I'm here to get a blue slip and ask for a waiver.".

 

I think it would be pretty obvious that if you are listing CCP membership on your forms and/or answering "YES" on the questions that GUZ is not going to simply overlook it and give you a pink, sounds like it should be an automatic blue to me so why not allow people to fess up and start the waiver process early? Seems like it would save everyone a lot of time and frustration dealing with this issue.

 

I'm seriously considering attending an ACH meeting so I can tell them about our situation, ask if we've addressed it properly so we can avoid all future problems and ask why the waiver process can't be started earlier.

 

 

I don't think it blows holes in your logic. Just because there is the stipulation that you must have quit 2 years prior to filing for the visa to clear this requirement, this does not change the accuracy of your answers. If they ask you "Are you a member of the CCP?" the answer is still "No". If they ask you "Were you ever a member?" the answer would be "Yes". It would be up to them to ask "When did your membership end?"

[bob&haiqing]

Hello Bill,

 

Good valid point! I was looking at it as a black or white issue but again we're treading into that infamous "gray" ... ? ... or is it "grey" ... ? ... well ... uh ... dah??? ... yes?, no?, both???

 

What I was concerned about is whether or not, in the eyes of GUZ, my sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing is still considered to be a CCP member under US law even though she quit by becoming a non dues payer over six months ago. If I'm interpreting this 2 year time frame accurately then I am assuming they would still consider her a CCP member in which case she would have to answer "YES" in order to be honest and truthful about it which is exactly what we are trying to do.

 

We're not trying to misrepresent our case, we're not trying to lie to get a visa, we're not looking for any magic "short cut", we're just trying to determine how to answer everything honestly without causing any unnecessary delays in our visa process.

 

It's a shame there are no guidelines from GUZ on how to accurately deal with this. If anyone knows a phone number where I can call and get a straight answer to this I'd appreciate having it ... on second thought an email address would be better that way I can have it in writing!

 

Until then I'll just continue to feel my way through the "gray" one step at a time.

 

Thanks for your input Bill, enjoy your evening,

Bob

Edited July 21, 2008 by bob&haiqing (see edit history)

[Randy W]

Hello Bill,

 

Good valid point! I was looking at it as a black or white issue but again we're treading into that infamous "gray" ... ? ... or is it "grey" ... ? ... well ... uh ... dah??? ... yes?, no?, both???

 

What I was concerned about is whether or not, in the eyes of GUZ, my sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing is still considered to be a CCP member under US law even though she quit by becoming a non dues payer over six months ago. If I'm interpreting this 2 year time frame accurately then I am assuming they would still consider her a CCP member in which case she would have to answer "YES" in order to be honest and truthful about it which is exactly what we are trying to do.

 

We're not trying to misrepresent our case, we're not trying to lie to get a visa, we're not looking for any magic "short cut", we're just trying to determine how to answer everything honestly without causing any unnecessary delays in our visa process.

 

It's a shame there are no guidelines from GUZ on how to accurately deal with this. If anyone knows a phone number where I can call and get a straight answer to this I'd appreciate having it ... on second thought an email address would be better that way I can have it in writing!

 

Until then I'll just continue to feel my way through the "gray" one step at a time.

 

Thanks for your input Bill, enjoy your evening,

Bob

 

 

No - that law does NOT define CCP membership - it tells how any present or former CCP member will be handled. Present - answer "No". Former - answer "Yes".

 

In general.-Any immigrant who is or has been a member of or affiliated with the Communist or any other totalitarian party (or subdivision or affiliate thereof), domestic or foreign, is inadmissible.

 

- UNLESS -

 

The only choices are is or has been. If yes to the second, how long ago?

Edited July 21, 2008 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Bill & Angel]

 

What I was concerned about is whether or not, in the eyes of GUZ, my sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing is still considered to be a CCP member under US law even though she quit by becoming a non dues payer over six months ago. If I'm interpreting this 2 year time frame accurately then I am assuming they would still consider her a CCP member in which case she would have to answer "YES" in order to be honest and truthful about it which is exactly what we are trying to do.

 

 

I would say that you are interpreting the US rule incorrectly. The US would prefer that you are not a CCP member, and that you haven't been for 2 years (I guess to give you time to forget all the propaganda). This does not mean that if it has been less than 2 years since you've quit that you're still considered to be a member.

 

If she's not a member, and you answer "YES" to the question when they ask if she is a member, you are doing yourselves a disservice. In essence, you're not telling the truth, and in the direction of self-sabotage.

[Randy W]

 

What I was concerned about is whether or not, in the eyes of GUZ, my sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing is still considered to be a CCP member under US law even though she quit by becoming a non dues payer over six months ago. If I'm interpreting this 2 year time frame accurately then I am assuming they would still consider her a CCP member in which case she would have to answer "YES" in order to be honest and truthful about it which is exactly what we are trying to do.

 

 

I would say that you are interpreting the US rule incorrectly. The US would prefer that you are not a CCP member, and that you haven't been for 2 years (I guess to give you time to forget all the propaganda). This does not mean that if it has been less than 2 years since you've quit that you're still considered to be a member.

 

If she's not a member, and you answer "YES" to the question when they ask if she is a member, you are doing yourselves a disservice. In essence, you're not telling the truth, and in the direction of self-sabotage.

 

Exactly !

[bob&haiqing]

Hello Randy and Bill,

 

Ok, now I feel better.

 

I had read the information that dnoblett posted earlier today a week or so ago and originally interpreted it as you have stated. My original thought about it was "why would US law decide who is and isn't a CCP member? After all these are not US citizens" so my next logical thought was "since they are Chinese citizens what does the CCP feel their status as a member is based upon their laws?". That is why my sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing and I went through the trouble of obtaining the CCP Constitution so we could get their take on her status.

 

It makes the "YES" for past membership and "NO" for current membership clear now and leaves the responsibility for asking "when" with GUZ where is should be.

 

When dnoblett posted earlier I thought "maybe I didn't take a close enough look at this or maybe I interpreted it wrong" and second guessed myself. When you and Bill posted it reconfirmed my original thoughts.

 

This is definitely and issue that has it's "gray" areas and my "gray" matter is certainly getting a good work out trying to navigate it. I feel like the guy from the old Monty Python show who used to yell "MY BRAIN HURTS!!!"

 

Thanks Randy and Bill for your help, Haiqing and I sincerly appreciate it.

 

Enjoy your evening,

Bob

[david_dawei]

I think as some are saying... to GUZ... it ain't so gray... and too much thinking is going on here.

 

And it's 5 years as the applicable rule as far as I recall... which shouldn't change much in most cases anyways.

[bob&haiqing]

Hey David,

 

I'm sure you're right, to GUZ it's as clear as can be because it's their job and they've been doing it for a while. Just like my job or your job comes as second nature to us but others would perhaps be perplexed. Hence, for us in the position of needing this information because it is a new experience and something we have to deal with and want to deal with in the proper fashion, a lot of thinking is taking place and in my opinion this is a good thing.

 

When I teach Tae Kwon Do to a new white belt student they appear to me a Black Belt to be thinking too much also, but when I think about what it was like and remember being a white belt myself, I did the same exact thing ... it's natural and part of the process. I just hope I'm collecting enough thoughts and information here to help the other visa white belts who will have the same questions.

 

According to what dnoblett posted earlier it's either 2 or 5 years depending on ones situation regarding party involvement ... if I'm interpreting it correctly.

 

Enjoy your day!

Bob

[Guest WenDylan]

Hey David,

 

I'm sure you're right, to GUZ it's as clear as can be because it's their job and they've been doing it for a while. Just like my job or your job comes as second nature to us but others would perhaps be perplexed. Hence, for us in the position of needing this information because it is a new experience and something we have to deal with and want to deal with in the proper fashion, a lot of thinking is taking place and in my opinion this is a good thing.

 

When I teach Tae Kwon Do to a new white belt student they appear to me a Black Belt to be thinking too much also, but when I think about what it was like and remember being a white belt myself, I did the same exact thing ... it's natural and part of the process. I just hope I'm collecting enough thoughts and information here to help the other visa white belts who will have the same questions.

 

According to what dnoblett posted earlier it's either 2 or 5 years depending on ones situation regarding party involvement ... if I'm interpreting it correctly.

 

Enjoy your day!

Bob

I don't really like this question. I understand that purpose of it, however it really burns me because I actually feel safer with a communist party member Chinese fiance (or wife) of an American who comes here with the knowledge and understanding of our economic system.

 

As opposed to these nice little white extremist movements which are otherwise so popular in this country. I will let you decide who is safer to live among. I watch these videos about all the illegal aliens wanting to sue American businesses for the right to work. And then I meet all the people here who struggle to do everything the legal way even through ever little detail, which burns into their minds "what should I do" and "what do I need to prepare to do". It really just peeves me off I guess you could say and I thought I would rest my night on those words.

 

Kinda off topic, but more in topic. I am looking forward to you both overcoming this! I think with the right heart and mind set, anything is possible. I don't see how something so wonderful could be destroyed, even by our great system. Best of luck and my prayers are always with you. I hope that my dreams of peace can be shared with as many people as I can wish my blessings upon.

 

I really enjoy hearing from you, and I am excited for my case to finish with pink, and I am even more excited to hear about the great triumphs of all the great friends I have met on here as well!

[david_dawei]

According to what dnoblett posted earlier it's either 2 or 5 years depending on ones situation regarding party involvement ... if I'm interpreting it correctly.

I haven't looked at this stuff for a long time... but based on the reading of the second one: "... in the case of..." that is china.. .ergo, 5 years. Just a logical read.

 

Consult an immigration attorney and not CFL for truly legal distinctions.

[number1poophead]

I was also wondering about those whose fiancee or spouse straight up quit the party without waiting for the six months. Was it an easy process? What were the reprecussions?

My fiancee has told me how difficult it is to just walk in and say "I quit". She says that the party would make things very difficult for her and/or her family in the future. For example, they would prevent her from getting some jobs in the future if we decided to move back to China. Any idea if this kind of stuff is true?

[dnoblett]

I don't think it blows holes in your logic. Just because there is the stipulation that you must have quit 2 years prior to filing for the visa to clear this requirement, this does not change the accuracy of your answers. If they ask you "Are you a member of the CCP?" the answer is still "No". If they ask you "Were you ever a member?" the answer would be "Yes". It would be up to them to ask "When did your membership end?"

Correct, this happened to Paula, and Mama Bear.

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...c=18469&hl=

 

18. Are you a CCP member? ¨Cyes.

Surprised. Are you a current CCP member?¡ªyes. I have statements for it from me and my husband.

Show me¡ªshe read it very carefully and thanked me for the statements.

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...c=21187&hl=

 

Mama Bear was prepared before interview for a blue slip.

[dnoblett]

I think as some are saying... to GUZ... it ain't so gray... and too much thinking is going on here.

 

And it's 5 years as the applicable rule as far as I recall... which shouldn't change much in most cases anyways.

That is my take on it, 5 years due to the fact that China essentially only has one party ruling the country, it would be 2 years if the person was from a country that has fair elections and the communist party was just one of many parties that is in the elections, sort of like a person being a democrat or republican here in the USA.