Hit With CR1 Denial... CIS This can't be good!

[khim]

My wife and I have been married for over a year and a half. We have been working on the visa process for almost as long. She had her CR1 interview in Guangzhou, China on January 23, 2008. Her entire interview lasted about 10 minutes and it was determined by the VO that all the documented records of phones call, msn chat, yahoo chat, yahoo voice, my cell phone records, and personal letters between us that we put together could have easily been forged. Even more surprisingly ,he was not interested in taking a look at those documents and it seem like he had already made his determination even before she talked with him. I have read a lot about GZ... and now i am not so surprised by the reaction of the VO.

My wife left the interview with a blue paper and a pink paper. The blue paper stated that Consulate was unable to issue a visa based on Title 221(g) of the INA. The pink paper was the check sheet of information needed.

The checked boxes were:

Correspondences… Provide as much information to document the development of our relationship.
Statement… Provide a detailed handwritten statement by the petitioner describing the evolution of our relationship.
Statement… A handwritten statement documenting every trip taken I had taken to China to visit my wife and how we spent our time together.

I put together all the information that they required, assembly it into a 1" binder with folder tabs to make it very convent, and mailed the completed 1” binder full of pages and pages of information on our relationship to my wife in China. She added the original blue and pink sheets to the binder and as instructed mailed it to the Embassy.

On Friday she received this letter in the mail:

THE CONSULATE GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

Name of Applicant:
Date:


Dear Immigrant Visa Applicant:

The Consulate is unable to issue you an immigrant visa because, according to the section of the Immigration and Nationality Act, section 5a, you do not fulfill the eligibility requirements for the partitioned visa. The Consulate has determined, based on your testimony, documents and any other evidence, that you do not has a bona fide relationship with your petitioner. The Consulate will now return your case to the Home Land Security, Citizenship and Immigration Services of the U.S. Department (CIS) for review and possible revocation. You will be informed by mail when the Consulate transfers the case back to CIS. Once your case has been transferred, please contact the CIS for information on your application. Processing your for return to CIS may take several months. Additional specific information regarding the reasons for decision can only be acquired during the CIS appeal process. If you or your petitioner contact the Consulate by email, fax, letter, or in person, no specific information will be provided nor additional documents will be accepted.

Now I do not understand why she was so coldly denied a visa. This has emotional devastated us. Cases that are sent back to CIS for revocation are based on clear evidence that will hold up in a court of law, supposedly (The more I read about this the more it seams like a big fat ugly joke on us!).

I know we did not do anything wrong. We both worked very hard with preparing and documenting our visa information.
Has anyone been here before?
What can we do from here? I know that GZ is dead. Do we appeal? Do we terminate our CR1 and begin all over again? Do I stow her away and take our chances... I say this jokingly but now realise that she might have better chances on a ship vs GZ!

I have read Title 221(g) of the INA… just a lot of words and really not any thing related, (After reading and reading... I am no longer surprised by this!) but where is section 5a? I cannot find any information on this. I would really like to know what the Consulate found to be detrimental to my wife’s visa ( I also now understand... after reading and reading that this will never find an answer.).

My wife and I talk 2 to 3 times a day and on weekends we video chat. This was OK while going through the visa process but now we want to be together as a husband and wife should be.

Please all advice and information is greatly appreciated.

Khim and Bizhen

[griz326]

Sorry to read this..........

 

This part just frosts my a$$:

 

>>>The Consulate has determined ... that you do not has a bona fide

relationship with your petitioner.

 

[dnoblett]

This one is a pain, but you need to appeal the decision at USCIS once they receive it back from the consulate. I would recommend getting a lawyer involved in handling the appeal.

 

You cannot just reapply for another visa, you need to deal with the revocation, there will be a mark of misrepresentation on her file that will just cause another denial.

 

You need to find out exactly what caused the Counselor Officer to deny the visa and deal with it.

 

GUZ did weigh in on the 5A refusal last summer.

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26031

[Randy W]

The USCIS will generally NOT make a decision to revoke - they have already approved the petition, and are rarely given anything beyond the "Not a Valid Relationship", as determined by the VO. The VO will pretty much stick to his guns there, and cannot be over-ruled. This does NOT meet "heavy burden a consular officer must meet before he or she can recommend an DHS-approved petition be revoked".

 

So, they have been known to simply let the petition expire, or disappear with no action taken. Read Denials Of Family-Based Immigrant Visas At Consulates And DHS Petition Revocations.

 

If it is "returned to USCIS for review with the recommendation that it be revoked because it¡¯s the officer¡¯s view that a reasonable person would believe the relationship exists solely or primarily to convey an immigration benefit", then you are facing administrative review. You will be notified of this and given 30 days notice to be able to defend yourself against the VO's assertions before a finding is entered against either her or you.

 

From the DOS "Guidance on Petition Revocations"

Providing solid evidence of fraud or misrepresentation in a petition relationship may not be achievable in many cases, particularly those involving marriage or relationship fraud. The FAM guidance on revocations makes this point on several occasions -- posts seeking revocations must show the "factual and concrete reasons for revocation." USCIS has asked us to remind consular officers that revocation requests must provide solid, factual evidence of fraud or misrepresentation, evidence that is likely to stand up in a court of law. In the case of sham marriages, for example, 9 FAM 42.43 N2.2 notes that USCIS requires at the least either documentary evidence that money changed hands between the petitioner and beneficiary or factual evidence that would convince "a reasonable person" that the marriage was entered into solely to evade immigration laws. Without such evidence, USCIS will be unlikely to obtain a petition''s revocation if a petitioner chooses to contest a notice of intent to revoke.

The VO rarely makes any claim beyond "Not a Valid Relationship", creating a stalemate which sometimes is resolved by the petioner (you) filing another petition.

Edited March 9, 2008 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Guest Rob & Jin]

sorry to hear this

 

How many visits to china did you make through the visa process ?

 

There are some members here with very specific knowledge on this, that I'm sure will be able to help you very much.

 

Good luck.

[khim]

sorry to hear this

 

How many visits to china did you make through the visa process ?

 

There are some members here with very specific knowledge on this, that I'm sure will be able to help you very much.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

I was only able to make two trips to China because of my fathers death and family affairs here in the US. Once that was taken care of my wife had her interview and I was hoping to take my trip to bring her back. Unfortunitly it did not work out that way.

[khim]

The USCIS will generally NOT make a decision to revoke - they have already approved the petition, and are rarely given anything beyond the "Not a Valid Relationship", as determined by the VO. The VO will pretty much stick to his guns there, and cannot be over-ruled. This does NOT meet "heavy burden a consular officer must meet before he or she can recommend an DHS-approved petition be revoked".

 

The GUIDANCE ON PETITION REVOCATIONS section 9 states ¡°As a rule of thumb, posts should not allow petitions earmarked for return to USCIS to languish more than a week or two.¡±

The white slip my wife received in the mail stated that it could take up to 3 months for GZ to prepare the files for return to CIS.

 

There is a BIG discrepancy between weeks and months here. Any thoughts on this?

[Randy W]

The USCIS will generally NOT make a decision to revoke - they have already approved the petition, and are rarely given anything beyond the "Not a Valid Relationship", as determined by the VO. The VO will pretty much stick to his guns there, and cannot be over-ruled. This does NOT meet "heavy burden a consular officer must meet before he or she can recommend an DHS-approved petition be revoked".

 

The GUIDANCE ON PETITION REVOCATIONS section 9 states ¡°As a rule of thumb, posts should not allow petitions earmarked for return to USCIS to languish more than a week or two.¡±

The white slip my wife received in the mail stated that it could take up to 3 months for GZ to prepare the files for return to CIS.

 

There is a BIG discrepancy between weeks and months here. Any thoughts on this?

 

 

 

Yes - the consulate at Guangzhou is effectively not answerable to any legal recourse. We've had several members who got the white slip, but the petitions were not returned to the USCIS anywhere from a few months to over a year.

 

Perhaps one of them will be able to help out here.

[dnoblett]

Chilton747 has been dealing with similar problems, it took GUZ many months to return the white slip.

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...c=27072&hl=

[david_dawei]

that's the difference between guidance [to all US consulates around the world] and practice [of a particular US consulate known to be bogged down with additional internal processes].

 

Your best course of action would of been to immediately hire a lawyer in GUZ to try and deal with it; they are able to get a hold put on it and attempt to interact with the consulate and rebutt the findings. At this point, it may be too late.

 

You can always hire a lawyer to find out if it is still in GUZ or not; If yes, then have them continue to deal with the case; If not, then your out some money but you know you tried something.. but this decision depends on whether you want to spend money on doing this...

 

I tend to agree with Randy: USCIS is not apt to revoke it [unless there is clearly some damaging info showing the original petition can be shown to have been falsified on some level--USCIS doesn't want to go to court to fight you over this, so they might be more inclined to let it die].

 

At some point, you can get the VOs comments through the FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) but not sure at what point... Once the file gets to the US, then you need an attorney in the US to deal with any issues (or at least consultation)...

[tsap seui]

Khim, this breaks my heart to read yet another letter like this. Yours is the 6th letter I have seen like this since January.

 

According to GUZ insiders this is part of a change that is ongoing.

 

Give a blue slip, wait 7 or 8 months...sometimes less, then send the denial letter. It is happening over and over and over and over.

 

Khim, I truly wish I could give you words of encouragement but I can't really help you buddy, my fiancee and I will most likely be getting the same letter as you posted within a couple of weeks. Your fight will take over a year or much more. At least you haven't lost the almost 8 months, and much more, of waiting that we and other have lost.

 

Telling you and all the others that you "have not proved a bona fide relationship" is just another catch-all phrase that they use. It means nothing and does not explain what they "think" they see. It's simply the "phrase of the day' they are using...yet, they have the "law" behind them and the "law" only means, they can deny anyone they want to and no one has any means of appealing it in Guangzhou anymore.

 

Hence the CHANGE to sending the women a letter saying that the case is denied. You won't even be able to e-mail and get a responce from them now.

 

Your response will say....the case has been sent to your USCIS service center. Please contact them. We will no longer be answering any e-mails about this particular case. Real cute, huh?

 

You need to contact an attorney named Marc Ellis. Marc isn't overly expensive, he understands the total mess that is the american consulate in Guangzhou, and he's gonna tell you it ain't gonna be quick. I would post his e-mail address to you here but I think it would get deleted so I'll PM it to you.

 

Good luck buddy, there is an awful lot of people in your shoes and many more to join you.

 

I'm truly sorry to see this happen to others. I have accepted it as my fate as has my fiancee now.

 

tsap seui

[david_dawei]

I think that Marc is able to help, even though I think he works out of vietnam(?)... he knows GUZ and has helped another member (who can PM you if he wants).

[khim]

Khim, this breaks my heart to read yet another letter like this. Yours is the 6th letter I have seen like this since January.

 

According to GUZ insiders this is part of a change that is ongoing.

 

Give a blue slip, wait 7 or 8 months...sometimes less, then send the denial letter. It is happening over and over and over and over.

 

Khim, I truly wish I could give you words of encouragement but I can't really help you buddy, my fiancee and I will most likely be getting the same letter as you posted within a couple of weeks. Your fight will take over a year or much more. At least you haven't lost the almost 8 months, and much more, of waiting that we and other have lost.

 

Telling you and all the others that you "have not proved a bona fide relationship" is just another catch-all phrase that they use. It means nothing and does not explain what they "think" they see. It's simply the "phrase of the day' they are using...yet, they have the "law" behind them and the "law" only means, they can deny anyone they want to and no one has any means of appealing it in Guangzhou anymore.

 

Hence the CHANGE to sending the women a letter saying that the case is denied. You won't even be able to e-mail and get a responce from them now.

 

Your response will say....the case has been sent to your USCIS service center. Please contact them. We will no longer be answering any e-mails about this particular case. Real cute, huh?

 

You need to contact an attorney named Marc Ellis. Marc isn't overly expensive, he understands the total mess that is the american consulate in Guangzhou, and he's gonna tell you it ain't gonna be quick. I would post his e-mail address to you here but I think it would get deleted so I'll PM it to you.

 

Good luck buddy, there is an awful lot of people in your shoes and many more to join you.

 

I'm truly sorry to see this happen to others. I have accepted it as my fate as has my fiancee now.

 

tsap seui

 

 

 

Thanks Tsap Seui!!

 

 

Question: If there is in increase of CIS/denials recently, is there a crack down on Frad cases going on and if so when the VO, in his eyes see strong evidents of fraud, why would these cases like mine not end up in a court? Or... is there something else going on here between the US and China that I havn't read about?

[Randy W]

I think that Marc is able to help, even though I think he works out of vietnam(?)... he knows GUZ and has helped another member (who can PM you if he wants).

 

 

 

Check the "About the Author" section at the bottom of the link to ilw.com that I posted.

[chilton747]

Khim, Marc is very good. As far as my denial being sent back to the states, I just got word Friday that it was sent back on February 21, 2008. The denial was issued to my then fiancee on her interview date of August 28, 2006. This gives you an idea of how long it can REALLY take!

Our cases are not taken to any court. The VO has the last word. I strongly feel that the political unrest between the US and China plays a role in all of this madness although others might disagree with me.

There is a very high rate if visa fraud coming from China and the innocent are caught up in all of this.