HOUSE PRICES PLUNGING...

[GZBILL]

But, I am certain that receiving 3500RMB isn't much different than us receiving $3500 in the mail.

 

 

That would be an extremely tough claim to substantiate. 3,500 RMB in China is nowhere near the US purchasing power of $3,500

[Shenzhen K-1]

But, I am certain that receiving 3500RMB isn't much different than us receiving $3500 in the mail.

 

 

That would be an extremely tough claim to substantiate. 3,500 RMB in China is nowhere near the US purchasing power of $3,500

 

I talked to my feng today who is a manager for a large reat estate company in Shenzhen! She told me that housing prices are down 10-15% in the last two months!

 

Yes I also sent $$ this month, ouch!!!!!!!!!

[Dennis143]

But, I am certain that receiving 3500RMB isn't much different than us receiving $3500 in the mail.

 

 

That would be an extremely tough claim to substantiate. 3,500 RMB in China is nowhere near the US purchasing power of $3,500

Seems to me that what I could purchase with one RMB in China is what I might also purchase with one dollar here in America. Nothing scientific. Simple empirical evidence.

 

The point was metaphorical, Bill. You have no argument from me, but I'd bet that my Chinese family might voice one.

[rogerluli]

Saw an interview with a Chinese real estate guru with lots of facts, figures and charts... on Chinese TV. His opinion was that the big money has already been made in the major Chinese cities and they were now experiencing either drops or very small increases. The second tier cities are now seeing the fastest increases - places like Guilin, Weihai and Haikou, which incidentally has had the fastest rise in values lately...

[Shenzhen K-1]

Saw an interview with a Chinese real estate guru with lots of facts, figures and charts... on Chinese TV. His opinion was that the big money has already been made in the major Chinese cities and they were now experiencing either drops or very small increases. The second tier cities are now seeing the fastest increases - places like Guilin, Weihai and Haikou, which incidentally has had the fastest rise in values lately...

 

The company my feng works for has branches in most major cities in China and every market has taken a hit in the last month or so!!

[rogerluli]

Saw an interview with a Chinese real estate guru with lots of facts, figures and charts... on Chinese TV. His opinion was that the big money has already been made in the major Chinese cities and they were now experiencing either drops or very small increases. The second tier cities are now seeing the fastest increases - places like Guilin, Weihai and Haikou, which incidentally has had the fastest rise in values lately...

 

The company my feng works for has branches in most major cities in China and every market has taken a hit in the last month or so!!

 

At the risk of repeating myself...Second tier cities like Guilin, Weihai and Haikou have seen increases in the past months...

[GZBILL]

But, I am certain that receiving 3500RMB isn't much different than us receiving $3500 in the mail.

 

 

That would be an extremely tough claim to substantiate. 3,500 RMB in China is nowhere near the US purchasing power of $3,500

Seems to me that what I could purchase with one RMB in China is what I might also purchase with one dollar here in America. Nothing scientific. Simple empirical evidence.

 

The point was metaphorical, Bill. You have no argument from me, but I'd bet that my Chinese family might voice one.

 

Depends on what you are looking at.

 

150k RMB for a decent Toyota. 2 RMB for a can of Coke. I sure hope Toyotas aren't going for $150k back home nor Coke for $2 a can.

[GZBILL]

Saw an interview with a Chinese real estate guru with lots of facts, figures and charts... on Chinese TV. His opinion was that the big money has already been made in the major Chinese cities and they were now experiencing either drops or very small increases. The second tier cities are now seeing the fastest increases - places like Guilin, Weihai and Haikou, which incidentally has had the fastest rise in values lately...

 

The company my feng works for has branches in most major cities in China and every market has taken a hit in the last month or so!!

 

At the risk of repeating myself...Second tier cities like Guilin, Weihai and Haikou have seen increases in the past months...

 

Guilin and Haikou have been increasing for the past 15 years. :roll:

 

Your cities are not at all representative. These are cities where you either get the snowbirds seeking warm weather (Haikou) or the nut cases seeking relatively unspoiled and unpolluted natural beauty (Guilin) flocking like sheep.

 

Try a real second tier city like Chongqing, Wuhan or Changsha. Not fourth tier tourist attractions.

[rogerluli]

Saw an interview with a Chinese real estate guru with lots of facts, figures and charts... on Chinese TV. His opinion was that the big money has already been made in the major Chinese cities and they were now experiencing either drops or very small increases. The second tier cities are now seeing the fastest increases - places like Guilin, Weihai and Haikou, which incidentally has had the fastest rise in values lately... B)

 

The company my feng works for has branches in most major cities in China and every market has taken a hit in the last month or so!!

 

At the risk of repeating myself...Second tier cities like Guilin, Weihai and Haikou have seen increases in the past months...

 

Guilin and Haikou have been increasing for the past 15 years. :roll:

 

Your cities are not at all representative. These are cities where you either get the snowbirds seeking warm weather (Haikou) or the nut cases seeking relatively unspoiled and unpolluted natural beauty (Guilin) flocking like sheep.

 

Try a real second tier city like Chongqing, Wuhan or Changsha. Not fourth tier tourist attractions.

 

And just why would a person deciding to live in Guilin be a "nut case"??? And haven't there been many, many more sheepes flocking to a city like Guangzhou??? Do you think a person who does not enjoy living in a very polluted environment is mentally defective???

[GZBILL]

Saw an interview with a Chinese real estate guru with lots of facts, figures and charts... on Chinese TV. His opinion was that the big money has already been made in the major Chinese cities and they were now experiencing either drops or very small increases. The second tier cities are now seeing the fastest increases - places like Guilin, Weihai and Haikou, which incidentally has had the fastest rise in values lately... B)

 

The company my feng works for has branches in most major cities in China and every market has taken a hit in the last month or so!!

 

At the risk of repeating myself...Second tier cities like Guilin, Weihai and Haikou have seen increases in the past months...

 

Guilin and Haikou have been increasing for the past 15 years. :roll:

 

Your cities are not at all representative. These are cities where you either get the snowbirds seeking warm weather (Haikou) or the nut cases seeking relatively unspoiled and unpolluted natural beauty (Guilin) flocking like sheep.

 

Try a real second tier city like Chongqing, Wuhan or Changsha. Not fourth tier tourist attractions.

 

And just why would a person deciding to live in Guilin be a "nut case"??? And haven't there been many, many more sheepes flocking to a city like Guangzhou??? Do you think a person who does not enjoy living in a very polluted environment is mentally defective???

 

Have you ever been to Guilin?

 

The vast majority of expats there as tourists are backpacking pot heads. They end up staying in Guilin as long as they can -- which is now getting harder because of shorter visa durations -- teaching English for 35 RMB per hour so they can afford the cheap rent, food, booze and pot.

 

Just go into any of the myriad of bars and restaurants on Xi Lu. If you look like you're Chinese and wear any kind of uniform, they scatter like the wind.

[rogerluli]

Saw an interview with a Chinese real estate guru with lots of facts, figures and charts... on Chinese TV. His opinion was that the big money has already been made in the major Chinese cities and they were now experiencing either drops or very small increases. The second tier cities are now seeing the fastest increases - places like Guilin, Weihai and Haikou, which incidentally has had the fastest rise in values lately...

 

The company my feng works for has branches in most major cities in China and every market has taken a hit in the last month or so!! B)

 

At the risk of repeating myself...Second tier cities like Guilin, Weihai and Haikou have seen increases in the past months...

 

Guilin and Haikou have been increasing for the past 15 years. :roll:

 

Your cities are not at all representative. These are cities where you either get the snowbirds seeking warm weather (Haikou) or the nut cases seeking relatively unspoiled and unpolluted natural beauty (Guilin) flocking like sheep.

 

Try a real second tier city like Chongqing, Wuhan or Changsha. Not fourth tier tourist attractions.

 

And just why would a person deciding to live in Guilin be a "nut case"??? And haven't there been many, many more sheepes flocking to a city like Guangzhou??? Do you think a person who does not enjoy living in a very polluted environment is mentally defective???

 

Have you ever been to Guilin?

 

The vast majority of expats there as tourists are backpacking pot heads. They end up staying in Guilin as long as they can -- which is now getting harder because of shorter visa durations -- teaching English for 35 RMB per hour so they can afford the cheap rent, food, booze and pot.

 

Just go into any of the myriad of bars and restaurants on Xi Lu. If you look like you're Chinese and wear any kind of uniform, they scatter like the wind.

 

Of course I've been to Guilin... I don't make judgements about places I've never been to. Laopo has a friend who is a hotel manager. We stayed at the hotel with the waterfall for next to nothing. We got in to all the attractions for free. We paid for the Chinese boat on the Li River cruise but went on the foreigner boat. We spent about a week in Guilin and Yangshuo. We enjoyed it very much, the scenery is spectacular... B) I wouldn't mind retiring there but I decided that any tourist city was not the best alternative...Oh and we spend zero time anywhere sitting around in bars so I have no comment on that scene...

[Don]

Saw an interview with a Chinese real estate guru with lots of facts, figures and charts... on Chinese TV. His opinion was that the big money has already been made in the major Chinese cities and they were now experiencing either drops or very small increases. The second tier cities are now seeing the fastest increases - places like Guilin, Weihai and Haikou, which incidentally has had the fastest rise in values lately... B)

 

The company my feng works for has branches in most major cities in China and every market has taken a hit in the last month or so!!

 

At the risk of repeating myself...Second tier cities like Guilin, Weihai and Haikou have seen increases in the past months...

 

Guilin and Haikou have been increasing for the past 15 years. :roll:

 

Your cities are not at all representative. These are cities where you either get the snowbirds seeking warm weather (Haikou) or the nut cases seeking relatively unspoiled and unpolluted natural beauty (Guilin) flocking like sheep.

 

Try a real second tier city like Chongqing, Wuhan or Changsha. Not fourth tier tourist attractions.

 

And just why would a person deciding to live in Guilin be a "nut case"??? And haven't there been many, many more sheepes flocking to a city like Guangzhou??? Do you think a person who does not enjoy living in a very polluted environment is mentally defective???

 

Have you ever been to Guilin?

 

The vast majority of expats there as tourists are backpacking pot heads. They end up staying in Guilin as long as they can -- which is now getting harder because of shorter visa durations -- teaching English for 35 RMB per hour so they can afford the cheap rent, food, booze and pot.

 

Just go into any of the myriad of bars and restaurants on Xi Lu. If you look like you're Chinese and wear any kind of uniform, they scatter like the wind.

 

Of course I've been to Guilin... I don't make judgements about places I've never been to. Laopo has a friend who is a hotel manager. We stayed at the hotel with the waterfall for next to nothing. We got in to all the attractions for free. We paid for the Chinese boat on the Li River cruise but went on the foreigner boat. We spent about a week in Guilin and Yangshuo. We enjoyed it very much, the scenery is spectacular... I wouldn't mind retiring there but I decided that any tourist city was not the best alternative...Oh and we spend zero time anywhere sitting around in bars so I have no comment on that scene... B)

 

Our house in Deeyang and I hear the prices in Chengdu are also still increasing. Our house in Jinghong is also increasing. The speculation in the hot markets might be the cause of the big drops in Guangdong, Shanghai and Beijing.

[rogerluli]

Saw an interview with a Chinese real estate guru with lots of facts, figures and charts... B) on Chinese TV. His opinion was that the big money has already been made in the major Chinese cities and they were now experiencing either drops or very small increases. The second tier cities are now seeing the fastest increases - places like Guilin, Weihai and Haikou, which incidentally has had the fastest rise in values lately... B)

 

The company my feng works for has branches in most major cities in China and every market has taken a hit in the last month or so!!

 

At the risk of repeating myself...Second tier cities like Guilin, Weihai and Haikou have seen increases in the past months...

 

Guilin and Haikou have been increasing for the past 15 years. :roll:

 

Your cities are not at all representative. These are cities where you either get the snowbirds seeking warm weather (Haikou) or the nut cases seeking relatively unspoiled and unpolluted natural beauty (Guilin) flocking like sheep.

 

Try a real second tier city like Chongqing, Wuhan or Changsha. Not fourth tier tourist attractions.

 

And just why would a person deciding to live in Guilin be a "nut case"??? And haven't there been many, many more sheepes flocking to a city like Guangzhou??? Do you think a person who does not enjoy living in a very polluted environment is mentally defective???

 

Have you ever been to Guilin?

 

The vast majority of expats there as tourists are backpacking pot heads. They end up staying in Guilin as long as they can -- which is now getting harder because of shorter visa durations -- teaching English for 35 RMB per hour so they can afford the cheap rent, food, booze and pot.

 

Just go into any of the myriad of bars and restaurants on Xi Lu. If you look like you're Chinese and wear any kind of uniform, they scatter like the wind.

 

Of course I've been to Guilin... I don't make judgements about places I've never been to. Laopo has a friend who is a hotel manager. We stayed at the hotel with the waterfall for next to nothing. We got in to all the attractions for free. We paid for the Chinese boat on the Li River cruise but went on the foreigner boat. We spent about a week in Guilin and Yangshuo. We enjoyed it very much, the scenery is spectacular... B) I wouldn't mind retiring there but I decided that any tourist city was not the best alternative...Oh and we spend zero time anywhere sitting around in bars so I have no comment on that scene...

 

Our house in Deeyang and I hear the prices in Chengdu are also still increasing. Our house in Jinghong is also increasing. The speculation in the hot markets might be the cause of the big drops in Guangdong, Shanghai and Beijing.

 

Same with the 14th tier... B) cities (per GZ Bill) in Yunnan and Hainan that I follow...Prices were low 2 years ago and continue to slowly and steadily climb... B)

[tsap seui]

Thanks, and good luck to you Kim and young Roger.

 

The more I think, and talk about teachin' with Chawls, the more I think I will like it. And the money will be okay, if your plan is to live in China.

 

How do you figure that what expat English teachers make in China is ok?

 

 

Bill, living in China, how much do you think I would need to make in China for it to be okay?

 

If I own a house with the lil' rabbit, have a VA service connected disability check each month, have some money in the bank, ain't worried about owning a car, and our sons private school is paid for by his father and his parents.

 

This is a tough question because it depends on lifestyles.

 

Let's start by assuming that you have no mortgage payments and that your house is the average 80 m2 and situated in southern China where the weather is relatively mild. I will quote amounts in RMB per month unless otherwise indicated in $ -- today's exchange rate is slightly south of 7.3.

 

Monthly utility payments (phone, ADSL, electricity, gas and management fees) will set you back on average 1,300.

 

Transportation expenses per active adult would be about 200 per month assuming you only use bus. An occasional use of taxi would double that amount and frequent use of taxi would probably put you at about 800 or higher.

 

200 per month per adult would be a fair amount to budget for medical expenses -- the occassional cold, flu or dental visit -- but only if you use the government hospitals and not private hospitals. If using private hospitals or clinics, you'd be better with a budget of about $200 per month.

 

Food is cheap. If you're eating all your meals at home and buying your raw materials in the local wet market, you could expect a family of three to need about 1,500 per month. Add another 1,000 or so if you eat out only once or twice per week.

 

Owning your own home saves you from paying rent, but not normal and / or unexpected maintenance. There's always the 300 per month that goes to having to fix or replace some thing or another.

 

Clothing is cheap, but it depends on your size. You'd do well to budget about 200 per month for clothing if you can wear what you find in the street markets. If you can't, make it 500. If you are an XL or above, make it 1,000 -- at least.

 

Chinese families (i.e. two breadwinners) in bigger cities typically struggle on a total household income of 6,000 a month. In smaller, third-tier, cities, 5,000 might be enough to get buy on if you have a lifestyle similar to the average Chinese family -- which can be quite frugal.

 

Needless to say, family vacations or trips will add considerably to your budget as will any Western-style amenities to which you are accustomed.

 

Depending on what type of city you live in, expats working as English teachers can earn, on average, between 2,000 to 7,000 per month in a full-time position. It's probably easy to find more lucrative sporadic part-time work, but that would usually not get you a work visa without which your stay in China will probably be very, very short once the authorities find you working. Make sure you find an employer who is authorized to hire expats and can obtain all the proper documentation for you to obtain work authorization.

 

Keep in mind that many provinces will not allow an expat to teach English unless they can show a valid 4-year degree. Also, schools tend not to employ the same expat for more than a year or two no matter how good they are because of the new labor law. Some also have an age limit.

 

Working, though, will add to your expenses not only in transportation, but also expenses for the occassional meal out when you can't go home for lunch to additional incidental expenses. Add another 700 for those expenses plus about 300 for income tax.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi GZBill,

 

I totally missed your reply. Just read it and want to say thanks for the information and breakdown. We will see what GUZ does with our case and pretty much go from there. Had a 2 hour conversation last night with the lil' rabbitand started laying out some plans for our future...in China.

 

We're still being twisted in the wind by GUZ but are finally in the review stage instead of administrative processing, so we're very hopeful they will let her come to America, maybe later this month. Then she can have her look-see of America, I'll help her with her painting caligraphy on fingernails, teaching Chinese, selling teas, roots, herbal medicines, gifts, etc., and see how she likes life in America.

 

The past 6 months have been hell and she wouldn't entertain a word about my going to China, even if she were totally banned by GUZ, but the seed was planted in her head, and now that she sees she may soon get the visa, the ol' gal is bringing up the discussion of us heading back after she has her belly full of the states, and I take her to Australia and New Zealand. At first mention of me going to China she was intimidated that I was giving up on her dream to see America, now she sees that was never the case and we can talk in a relaxed way about the future.

 

Very interesting to see that once the possibility of an actual visa finally raises it's head again, now the lil' rabbit is relaxed and I see the whells spinning as we plan out our REAL future.

 

It's a damn shame I couldn't just get her a 2 year tourist visa and she and our "son" didn't have to be treated like criminals at the interview. That put some pretty deep cuts in both of us, and it pretty much was the last straw for me.

 

Thanks again Bill. I'm sure I'll have more questions from a wizened traveler like yourself and others with time in China. I don't like having to re-invent the wheel, and I like options, advice from people who have been there, done that in an area of my interest, and I appreciate your input.

 

tsap seui

 

tsap seui