Near tragedy over lack of hukou

[Shenzhen K-1]

I don't think the article is more profound not because of the importance of the Hukou, but of the massive pressure that Chinese high school students are under. It's not like the USA, where you can go back and get your degree even if you drop out of high school or college. If you drop out or do poorly in high school there, there is no second chance. You will almost surely be condemned to a life of doing menial work.

 

My new daughter is going to Senior high school in Shenzhen until she comes here! It is more like going to college then high school here!! Only going to school from 8:30 a.m. to 2:45 p.m. here will be like nothing to her!! This poor girl!!

[markndannie]

From what my wife Danni has told me, the Hokou until recent time really controlled the population of China. If your Hokou was from a city then that is where you had to live and work. If your Hokou was from the country then you had to live and work there. If you had a govt job and they transferred you then you could move otherwise tough luck. I believe China recenty changed the Hokuo law due to worker shortages in the major cities. I had never before understood the control that the govt had but this explains it. I am glad they are changing the Hokou rules. For us Americans it is hard to understand as we can move anywhere we want. Ah the wonders of a free society. Now if they will change the forbidden restrictions in certain areas life will be much easier.

Mark

[Guest knloregon]

This is a tragic story, but there are a number of social forces which are making the hukou harder to enforce, and thus less relevant, and even counter to government policy. Here are two examples:

 

One problem has been the huge influx of migrant workers from the countryside to work as laborers in construction of the booming cities---sort of like "undocumented" workers in the US --technically, they shouldn't be employable without two things---hukou from the local county government in whatever rural province they were originally from, and secondly, permission to transfer the hukou into the province where they are seeking work. ---none of that is happening, and construction companies certainly arn't checking...so you have an underclass of illegals similar to the US.

 

Another fairly new social situation are the newborn infant girls which are abandoned. ---If they make it to the orphanage---they get a hukou.

 

Until recently, abandoned girl orphans often just died in the gutter--their crying ignored. In one sense, it is very good news that this isn't happening much anymore because of the shortage of girls in many areas, these babies now have monetary value, and are being sold and traded even between provinces. The girls survive, and are placed in households and extended families in subservient roles (mostly), but also to become an insurance policy for families with sons living in communities with very few girls---so these girls are being kept in reserve to serve in a fall-back role as wives, if the sons can't find wives on their own. Without the hukou the girls really have no options but to stay in this situation...

 

There was a thread on adoption about a month ago that really poed me, because the author suggested that China didn't require a strong central government to regulate adoptions---"Deng's" policy--- that Chinese "Villages" could (and did historically) do it just fine on their own. Well, this is "the old fashioned way" and while its a lot better than infantcide, its dangeriously close to a caste system---something the "Godless Communists" absolutely despised.

[LeeFisher3]

The hukou is a little different than our birth certificates and SSN because some hukou's are more valuable than others. For example, a Beijing hukou allows you to work or go to school here which is generally better than doing those things in a smaller more remote place. If you weren't born in Beijing you need a job or school that will get you a hukou which can be difficult.

You missed my point our birth certificates and SSN's are just like the hukou in the sense without them you do not exist in the US. I don't know anything about area to area value of hukou's and I will take your word on that.

There is a difference, in the US we have about 16 million examples of people able to work, go to school, collect welfare, buy a house with a government backed loan who have neither an SSN or US birth certificate.

 

There is a tremendous difference only because their culture demands you bring in your household book and ID card for so many things to be able to exist. Rent or buy a house, take the college exams, get a job, have a bank account or get government assistance. There is no Grey area for not having your household book or ID card in China.

[Corbin]

The hukou is a little different than our birth certificates and SSN because some hukou's are more valuable than others. For example, a Beijing hukou allows you to work or go to school here which is generally better than doing those things in a smaller more remote place. If you weren't born in Beijing you need a job or school that will get you a hukou which can be difficult.

You missed my point our birth certificates and SSN's are just like the hukou in the sense without them you do not exist in the US. I don't know anything about area to area value of hukou's and I will take your word on that.

There is a difference, in the US we have about 16 million examples of people able to work, go to school, collect welfare, buy a house with a government backed loan who have neither an SSN or US birth certificate.

 

There is a tremendous difference only because their culture demands you bring in your household book and ID card for so many things to be able to exist. Rent or buy a house, take the college exams, get a job, have a bank account or get government assistance. There is no Grey area for not having your household book or ID card in China.

I see this now and have to say that my statement was weak........

[GDBILL]

This is a tragic story, but there are a number of social forces which are making the hukou harder to enforce, and thus less relevant, and even counter to government policy. Here are two examples:

 

One problem has been the huge influx of migrant workers from the countryside to work as laborers in construction of the booming cities---sort of like "undocumented" workers in the US --technically, they shouldn't be employable without two things---hukou from the local county government in whatever rural province they were originally from, and secondly, permission to transfer the hukou into the province where they are seeking work. ---none of that is happening, and construction companies certainly arn't checking...so you have an underclass of illegals similar to the US.

 

Yes, hukou is similar in some ways to a birth certificate in the US, but without a birth certificate in the US there are still ways to prove your identity. In China, without a hukou book you cannot get an ID card and an ID card is the one fundamental document in China that allows you to open a bank account, get a job, register for university entrance exams and just about anything else.

 

Migrant workers have hukou and their lack of hukou in the city where they migrate to is starting to become less of an issue than it previously did. Hukou is playing less of a role in employment than before and that's one reason why there is an influx of migrant workers in most major Chinese cities. Where hukou continues to play a significant role is in obtaining social or public services such as education and any form of subsidized services.

 

There is talk of providing education to all regardless of where their hukou is from, but this is a long way off from reality. There is also talk of eliminating hukou, but this talk has been around for at least 10 years and at every step authorities state that they will not eliminate hukou. Nor should they.

 

It's absurd to equate migrant workers in China with illegal aliens in the US.

 

This girl's problem is unique in that she has NO hukou. Illegitimate children in China are often not given hukou -- party because of the one-child policy.

[Shenzhen K-1]

This is a tragic story, but there are a number of social forces which are making the hukou harder to enforce, and thus less relevant, and even counter to government policy. Here are two examples:

 

One problem has been the huge influx of migrant workers from the countryside to work as laborers in construction of the booming cities---sort of like "undocumented" workers in the US --technically, they shouldn't be employable without two things---hukou from the local county government in whatever rural province they were originally from, and secondly, permission to transfer the hukou into the province where they are seeking work. ---none of that is happening, and construction companies certainly arn't checking...so you have an underclass of illegals similar to the US.

 

Yes, hukou is similar in some ways to a birth certificate in the US, but without a birth certificate in the US there are still ways to prove your identity. In China, without a hukou book you cannot get an ID card and an ID card is the one fundamental document in China that allows you to open a bank account, get a job, register for university entrance exams and just about anything else.

 

Migrant workers have hukou and their lack of hukou in the city where they migrate to is starting to become less of an issue than it previously did. Hukou is playing less of a role in employment than before and that's one reason why there is an influx of migrant workers in most major Chinese cities. Where hukou continues to play a significant role is in obtaining social or public services such as education and any form of subsidized services.

 

There is talk of providing education to all regardless of where their hukou is from, but this is a long way off from reality. There is also talk of eliminating hukou, but this talk has been around for at least 10 years and at every step authorities state that they will not eliminate hukou. Nor should they.

 

It's absurd to equate migrant workers in China with illegal aliens in the US.

 

This girl's problem is unique in that she has NO hukou. Illegitimate children in China are often not given hukou -- party because of the one-child policy.

 

Not sure about the policy of the hukuo, but.........

 

I know when in Beijing there was a whole lot of men working on the Olympic stadiums and venues, so they can do things when they want! B)

[Corbin]

This is a tragic story, but there are a number of social forces which are making the hukou harder to enforce, and thus less relevant, and even counter to government policy. Here are two examples:

 

One problem has been the huge influx of migrant workers from the countryside to work as laborers in construction of the booming cities---sort of like "undocumented" workers in the US --technically, they shouldn't be employable without two things---hukou from the local county government in whatever rural province they were originally from, and secondly, permission to transfer the hukou into the province where they are seeking work. ---none of that is happening, and construction companies certainly arn't checking...so you have an underclass of illegals similar to the US.

 

Yes, hukou is similar in some ways to a birth certificate in the US, but without a birth certificate in the US there are still ways to prove your identity. In China, without a hukou book you cannot get an ID card and an ID card is the one fundamental document in China that allows you to open a bank account, get a job, register for university entrance exams and just about anything else.

 

Migrant workers have hukou and their lack of hukou in the city where they migrate to is starting to become less of an issue than it previously did. Hukou is playing less of a role in employment than before and that's one reason why there is an influx of migrant workers in most major Chinese cities. Where hukou continues to play a significant role is in obtaining social or public services such as education and any form of subsidized services.

 

There is talk of providing education to all regardless of where their hukou is from, but this is a long way off from reality. There is also talk of eliminating hukou, but this talk has been around for at least 10 years and at every step authorities state that they will not eliminate hukou. Nor should they.

 

It's absurd to equate migrant workers in China with illegal aliens in the US.

 

This girl's problem is unique in that she has NO hukou. Illegitimate children in China are often not given hukou -- party because of the one-child policy.

 

Not sure about the policy of the hukuo, but.........

 

I know when in Beijing there was a whole lot of men working on the Olympic stadiums and venues, so they can do things when they want! B)

That would sound like when workers are needed in mass they tend to look the other way somewhat. Somewhat like our migrant workers, not all of them are illegal aliens but most are. The way I understand it with no Hukou you are illegally working, but this is not enforced as much as it use to be.