China Bashing on Economics...Why it's Wrong...

[Joanne]

I wonder what kind of benefits these people get,or what happens to them if they become totally disabled for some reason and can no longer work,and I wonder what the living conditions are like for those factory workers from other "less visible" areas of the city.

 

 

I think you, me, and evryone else here knows the answers to those questions...

 

In reality...compared to China the US has gone about 30% over to socialism... And people here call China "COMMUNIST"

 

That's it.

[Joanne]

 

There is something wrong with making money off the sweat of another mans brow.

 

umm...That is capitalism.

 

Yes!!!! And it is wonderful!! It is no lie that sometimes people get pooped on in this capitalistic world. Is it fair that some people live a life of fancy hotels, travel and gourmet foods? Yet others live 12 people to a room, eat instant noodles and work sixty hours a work for little pay? Nope....Not one bit fair!! But......Those people have it bad, can you imagine what life would be like for them if we boycotted the goods that they produced? Suppose for one second that we gave a damn and we stopped purchasing goods that were made in these sweatshops. Where would this people live then? They would not have a roof over their heads. They would not have ANY food in their bellies.

 

Look at America in the 1920's and 1930's. We are a country that experienced an industrial revolution that was supported by cheap labor. Labor that was supplied by the immigrants that came to America for a better life. Did they get a better life? Read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle or Frank McCourt's Angela's Ashes and tell me if they had a better life. Are there changes that could be made? Absolutely!! But nothing happens overnight. And remember, as crappy as it is.......It actually can be worse. You know what makes it better? Trade.

 

I know I sound cold and harsh. Heck, I even feel a little cold and harsh sometimes. What I am saying is not a lie though. China is going through a lot of growing pains right now and they have more to come. 30 years ago they were a sleeping giant..... They sleep no more.

 

 

Joshua

[DMikeS4321]

I don't know which is worse. People who refuse to believe that this country can do ANYTHING wrong or people who say how tired they are of hearing others point out what IS wrong.

 

It's not about politics, it's about culture! The minute someone even suggests that something Americans do could possibly be wrong, certain people jump down their throats like they just whizzed on the Washington Monument.

 

Jeez!

 

I don't mean it that way, Dave. It's just like this; we're not supposed to be doing the political thing now, and I've really tried to give it up, but to see it continue makes it difficult. Know what I mean?

 

This thread is about bashing China over economics; why does it end up with a criticism of OUR way of life? From what I see when I go over there, about 1.299 billion Chinese want to be more like us. Is it the best thing for them? I don't know; maybe maybe not, but there are SOME people in this world who see some value to our way of life. To top it, mods will slap us down if we get too political. What kind of example do we have here? If I'm out of line, so be it...

 

Lao Po talked to her friend from Philadelphia last week. (Lao Po can pronounce "Philadelphia". I think that makes her bi-lingual!??!!). Her friend told her that she doesn't want to return to China for anything more than a short visit. She is AMERICAN now and wouldn't have it any other way. I'm impressed. She loves it in Philly???? Now THAT is the acid test.

 

Best Regards

[DMikeS4321]

 

There is something wrong with making money off the sweat of another mans brow.

 

umm...That is capitalism.

 

Yes!!!! And it is wonderful!! It is no lie that sometimes people get pooped on in this capitalistic world. Is it fair that some people live a life of fancy hotels, travel and gourmet foods? Yet others live 12 people to a room, eat instant noodles and work sixty hours a work for little pay? Nope....Not one bit fair!! But......Those people have it bad, can you imagine what life would be like for them if we boycotted the goods that they produced? Suppose for one second that we gave a damn and we stopped purchasing goods that were made in these sweatshops. Where would this people live then? They would not have a roof over their heads. They would not have ANY food in their bellies.

 

Look at America in the 1920's and 1930's. We are a country that experienced an industrial revolution that was supported by cheap labor. Labor that was supplied by the immigrants that came to America for a better life. Did they get a better life? Read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle or Frank McCourt's Angela's Ashes and tell me if they had a better life. Are there changes that could be made? Absolutely!! But nothing happens overnight. And remember, as crappy as it is.......It actually can be worse. You know what makes it better? Trade.

 

I know I sound cold and harsh. Heck, I even feel a little cold and harsh sometimes. What I am saying is not a lie though. China is going through a lot of growing pains right now and they have more to come. 30 years ago they were a sleeping giant..... They sleep no more.

 

 

Joshua

 

You've nailed it Joshua, but in a much more polite way than I. Thanks....

 

It's quite remarkable to see China progressing at such a rapid pace. That country sees the value of free markets and free trade, and the people know what they want. This may anger jaded Americans, but China hasn't had the luxury of our perspective, so they strive for more. More power to them, I say. Who are we to benefit from our lifestyle, complaining the whole time, and then try to discourage others who want even a piece of what we have. That's cultural arrogance of the highest order...

[IllinoisDave]

I don't know which is worse. People who refuse to believe that this country can do ANYTHING wrong or people who say how tired they are of hearing others point out what IS wrong.

 

It's not about politics, it's about culture! The minute someone even suggests that something Americans do could possibly be wrong, certain people jump down their throats like they just whizzed on the Washington Monument.

 

Jeez!

 

I don't mean it that way, Dave. It's just like this; we're not supposed to be doing the political thing now, and I've really tried to give it up, but to see it continue makes it difficult. Know what I mean?

 

This thread is about bashing China over economics; why does it end up with a criticism of OUR way of life? From what I see when I go over there, about 1.299 billion Chinese want to be more like us. Is it the best thing for them? I don't know; maybe maybe not, but there are SOME people in this world who see some value to our way of life. To top it, mods will slap us down if we get too political. What kind of example do we have here? If I'm out of line, so be it...

 

Lao Po talked to her friend from Philadelphia last week. (Lao Po can pronounce "Philadelphia". I think that makes her bi-lingual!??!!). Her friend told her that she doesn't want to return to China for anything more than a short visit. She is AMERICAN now and wouldn't have it any other way. I'm impressed. She loves it in Philly???? Now THAT is the acid test.

 

Best Regards

 

I guess my point is that not ALL people see ALL aspects of our way of life to be more valuable. And I don't think it's out of bounds for someone to criticize something like our obvious over-indulgence in fast food when making a point about what China is bashed for. I don't see that as American bashing and I certainly don't see it as "political".

 

Not all criticism of things in this country is about politics. It just seems like whenever anything negative is said about anything to do with the US, you get defensive and take it as a personal affront or a political attack.

 

The fact is that SOME Americans are arrogant and SOME Americans have a dangerous addiction to fast-food and SOME Americans do all sorts of other bad things. Pointing out facts like these in this thread or others you've taken exception to doesn't make it political.

[DMikeS4321]

I don't know which is worse. People who refuse to believe that this country can do ANYTHING wrong or people who say how tired they are of hearing others point out what IS wrong.

 

It's not about politics, it's about culture! The minute someone even suggests that something Americans do could possibly be wrong, certain people jump down their throats like they just whizzed on the Washington Monument.

 

Jeez!

 

I don't mean it that way, Dave. It's just like this; we're not supposed to be doing the political thing now, and I've really tried to give it up, but to see it continue makes it difficult. Know what I mean?

 

This thread is about bashing China over economics; why does it end up with a criticism of OUR way of life? From what I see when I go over there, about 1.299 billion Chinese want to be more like us. Is it the best thing for them? I don't know; maybe maybe not, but there are SOME people in this world who see some value to our way of life. To top it, mods will slap us down if we get too political. What kind of example do we have here? If I'm out of line, so be it...

 

Lao Po talked to her friend from Philadelphia last week. (Lao Po can pronounce "Philadelphia". I think that makes her bi-lingual!??!!). Her friend told her that she doesn't want to return to China for anything more than a short visit. She is AMERICAN now and wouldn't have it any other way. I'm impressed. She loves it in Philly???? Now THAT is the acid test.

 

Best Regards

 

I guess my point is that not ALL people see ALL aspects of our way of life to be more valuable. And I don't think it's out of bounds for someone to criticize something like our obvious over-indulgence in fast food when making a point about what China is bashed for. I don't see that as American bashing and I certainly don't see it as "political".

 

Not all criticism of things in this country is about politics. It just seems like whenever anything negative is said about anything to do with the US, you get defensive and take it as a personal affront or a political attack.

 

The fact is that SOME Americans are arrogant and SOME Americans have a dangerous addiction to fast-food and SOME Americans do all sorts of other bad things. Pointing out facts like these in this thread or others you've taken exception to doesn't make it political.

 

O.K.

[DMikeS4321]

Based on that.. obese people should not cut down on their eating as that would hurt McDonald's business... and that's so much more important than good health.

 

Sorry, David. I thought you were being sarcastic.

 

It seems more a disease on some level... over-spending and over-indulgence is our middle name...

 

I didn't know that was your middle name. I thought you were generalizaing about ALL Americans.

[Tony_onrock]

I don't know which is worse. People who refuse to believe that this country can do ANYTHING wrong or people who say how tired they are of hearing others point out what IS wrong.

 

It's not about politics, it's about culture! The minute someone even suggests that something Americans do could possibly be wrong, certain people jump down their throats like they just whizzed on the Washington Monument.

 

Jeez!

 

I don't mean it that way, Dave. It's just like this; we're not supposed to be doing the political thing now, and I've really tried to give it up, but to see it continue makes it difficult. Know what I mean?

 

This thread is about bashing China over economics; why does it end up with a criticism of OUR way of life? From what I see when I go over there, about 1.299 billion Chinese want to be more like us. Is it the best thing for them? I don't know; maybe maybe not, but there are SOME people in this world who see some value to our way of life. To top it, mods will slap us down if we get too political. What kind of example do we have here? If I'm out of line, so be it...

 

Lao Po talked to her friend from Philadelphia last week. (Lao Po can pronounce "Philadelphia". I think that makes her bi-lingual!??!!). Her friend told her that she doesn't want to return to China for anything more than a short visit. She is AMERICAN now and wouldn't have it any other way. I'm impressed. She loves it in Philly???? Now THAT is the acid test.

 

Best Regards

 

When I left China in 1989 I wowed not to return even for a short visit, not even have my remains return to China.

 

Well, I did not visit for over a decade, no contacts, no phone calls, no emails or letters.

But when the prospect of earning three times more than working in a U.S. law firm appears, the way of life aspect suddenly seems less important. There are tons of social and economical problems. The thing is, either you can complain about it or take advantage of it.

People keep on complaining about the social/income gap every where, in the US, in China. But why not try climb on to the top?

[DMikeS4321]

When I left China in 1989 I wowed not to return even for a short visit, not even have my remains return to China.

 

Well, I did not visit for over a decade, no contacts, no phone calls, no emails or letters.

But when the prospect of earning three times more than working in a U.S. law firm appears, the way of life aspect suddenly seems less important. There are tons of social and economical problems. The thing is, either you can complain about it or take advantage of it.

People keep on complaining about the social/income gap every where, in the US, in China. But why not try climb on to the top?

 

Interesting take on this thread. I agree wholeheartedly, Tony.

[TootTaLu]

I don't know which is worse. People who refuse to believe that this country can do ANYTHING wrong or people who say how tired they are of hearing others point out what IS wrong.

 

It's not about politics, it's about culture! The minute someone even suggests that something Americans do could possibly be wrong, certain people jump down their throats like they just whizzed on the Washington Monument.

 

Jeez!

 

I don't mean it that way, Dave. It's just like this; we're not supposed to be doing the political thing now, and I've really tried to give it up, but to see it continue makes it difficult. Know what I mean?

 

This thread is about bashing China over economics; why does it end up with a criticism of OUR way of life? From what I see when I go over there, about 1.299 billion Chinese want to be more like us. Is it the best thing for them? I don't know; maybe maybe not, but there are SOME people in this world who see some value to our way of life. To top it, mods will slap us down if we get too political. What kind of example do we have here? If I'm out of line, so be it...

 

Lao Po talked to her friend from Philadelphia last week. (Lao Po can pronounce "Philadelphia". I think that makes her bi-lingual!??!!). Her friend told her that she doesn't want to return to China for anything more than a short visit. She is AMERICAN now and wouldn't have it any other way. I'm impressed. She loves it in Philly???? Now THAT is the acid test.

 

Best Regards

 

When I left China in 1989 I wowed not to return even for a short visit, not even have my remains return to China.

 

Well, I did not visit for over a decade, no contacts, no phone calls, no emails or letters.

But when the prospect of earning three times more than working in a U.S. law firm appears, the way of life aspect suddenly seems less important. There are tons of social and economical problems. The thing is, either you can complain about it or take advantage of it.

People keep on complaining about the social/income gap every where, in the US, in China. But why not try climb on to the top?

When I see the rapid development in China,I cant help but believe that there is going to be a burn out.

Lots of the stuff they are building,like buildings and roads,seem to be falling apart already from lack of maintenence.

I mean that if they build too quickly,they are going to have too much "stuff" on their hands and not be able to maintain it.

 

I think lots of the building and beautification projects in China are for making a fast profit and not really needed.

 

I had a teenaged friend who was given a Porche car,but it was TOO EXPENSIVE to maintain and fell in to disrepair and had to be sold in exchange for a more practical car.

[DMikeS4321]

I don't know which is worse. People who refuse to believe that this country can do ANYTHING wrong or people who say how tired they are of hearing others point out what IS wrong.

 

It's not about politics, it's about culture! The minute someone even suggests that something Americans do could possibly be wrong, certain people jump down their throats like they just whizzed on the Washington Monument.

 

Jeez!

 

I don't mean it that way, Dave. It's just like this; we're not supposed to be doing the political thing now, and I've really tried to give it up, but to see it continue makes it difficult. Know what I mean?

 

This thread is about bashing China over economics; why does it end up with a criticism of OUR way of life? From what I see when I go over there, about 1.299 billion Chinese want to be more like us. Is it the best thing for them? I don't know; maybe maybe not, but there are SOME people in this world who see some value to our way of life. To top it, mods will slap us down if we get too political. What kind of example do we have here? If I'm out of line, so be it...

 

Lao Po talked to her friend from Philadelphia last week. (Lao Po can pronounce "Philadelphia". I think that makes her bi-lingual!??!!). Her friend told her that she doesn't want to return to China for anything more than a short visit. She is AMERICAN now and wouldn't have it any other way. I'm impressed. She loves it in Philly???? Now THAT is the acid test.

 

Best Regards

 

When I left China in 1989 I wowed not to return even for a short visit, not even have my remains return to China.

 

Well, I did not visit for over a decade, no contacts, no phone calls, no emails or letters.

But when the prospect of earning three times more than working in a U.S. law firm appears, the way of life aspect suddenly seems less important. There are tons of social and economical problems. The thing is, either you can complain about it or take advantage of it.

People keep on complaining about the social/income gap every where, in the US, in China. But why not try climb on to the top?

When I see the rapid development in China,I cant help but believe that there is going to be a burn out.

Lots of the stuff they are building,like buildings and roads,seem to be falling apart already from lack of maintenence.

I mean that if they build too quickly,they are going to have too much "stuff" on their hands and not be able to maintain it.

 

I think lots of the building and beautification projects in China are for making a fast profit and not really needed.

 

I had a teenaged friend who was given a Porche car,but it was TOO EXPENSIVE to maintain and fell in to disrepair and had to be sold in exchange for a more practical car.

 

I don't know what else to expect from a large country, rapidly emerging from Third World status to one of the top 3 or 4 economic powers in the world in a span of about 3 decades.

 

Corruption? Sure. Wasteful? No doubt. What else to expect from a country that has accumulated about $3,000,000,000,000 in foreign reserves in the last 30 years?

[Joshua + Wang Zhuo]

I guess my overall outlook on China and their economic policies is about the same as my outlook on American Economic policies. Are they perfect? Nope! Are there things I would change? In both cases, Yep! But, in the grand scheme of things I think both countries seem to be doing good.

 

China has a growing middle class that has increased consumer spending drastically over the last few decades. They need to be careful or their economy will overheat and inflation will get out of hand. I believe that they are fully aware of this problem though and they are working on fixing it. There is no quick fix though. Policies implemented today may take years to have an effect. Economies can be very delicate and too much outside intervention can have very dramatic results.

 

Joshua

[david_dawei]

This thread is about bashing China over economics; why does it end up with a criticism of OUR way of life?

only roger can explain why his title ends, "why it's wrong".. is it china's economic ways which are wrong or our bashing of their economics as wrong.. I took it as the latter... ergo, it's wrong cuz we are equally to blame for some things....

[Guest Rob & Jin]

I don't know which is worse. People who refuse to believe that this country can do ANYTHING wrong or people who say how tired they are of hearing others point out what IS wrong.

 

It's not about politics, it's about culture! The minute someone even suggests that something Americans do could possibly be wrong, certain people jump down their throats like they just whizzed on the Washington Monument.

 

Jeez!

 

I don't mean it that way, Dave. It's just like this; we're not supposed to be doing the political thing now, and I've really tried to give it up, but to see it continue makes it difficult. Know what I mean?

 

This thread is about bashing China over economics; why does it end up with a criticism of OUR way of life? From what I see when I go over there, about 1.299 billion Chinese want to be more like us. Is it the best thing for them? I don't know; maybe maybe not, but there are SOME people in this world who see some value to our way of life. To top it, mods will slap us down if we get too political. What kind of example do we have here? If I'm out of line, so be it...

 

Lao Po talked to her friend from Philadelphia last week. (Lao Po can pronounce "Philadelphia". I think that makes her bi-lingual!??!!). Her friend told her that she doesn't want to return to China for anything more than a short visit. She is AMERICAN now and wouldn't have it any other way. I'm impressed. She loves it in Philly???? Now THAT is the acid test.

 

Best Regards

 

When I left China in 1989 I wowed not to return even for a short visit, not even have my remains return to China.

 

Well, I did not visit for over a decade, no contacts, no phone calls, no emails or letters.

But when the prospect of earning three times more than working in a U.S. law firm appears, the way of life aspect suddenly seems less important. There are tons of social and economical problems. The thing is, either you can complain about it or take advantage of it.

People keep on complaining about the social/income gap every where, in the US, in China. But why not try climb on to the top?

 

You really believe that ?

[Tony_onrock]

I really do believe that through individual efforts each one of us can make a better living in the U.S. or in China.

I left China in 1989 with $200 for the U.S. and left the U.S. after 12 years of being a lawyer, from a poorly paid prosecutor, to an ambulance chasing trial lawyer, criminal defense and family law, to working with one of the top firms in Tax and mergers and acqisitions. When I return to Hong Kong, the Chinese law has changed so much that I have to start all over. Within 3 months, I took over a team in real estate with no prior experience and after two deals was recruited as the chief legal counsel of a growing and now large investment fund.

One thing that I had was a mat when I first came back to Asia to use in the office when I have to work over night. In the two deals that I did, one negotiation went on for three days and nights. But I got the deal done ( at 20k per sq meter of a historical building on Nanjing East road, now land price alone is 66k).

In the past, when I was working in NY, there are always these people complaining about the social inequality, esp. those clients that were facing jail time. They keep on saying" You would never understand". Well , each time I have to tell them, yes I do understand, growing up an orphane in China from age of 8.

I have ran into so many here in China that are from the countryside or with little education but with drive and determination and made it.

 

Complaining never gets people anywhere, in China or in the U.S.