China Bashing on Economics...Why it's Wrong...

[IllinoisDave]

Here's something else to consider. It's a quote from an article in the WSJ that was included in this blog http://washingtonbureau.typepad.com/china/

that Jim (SinoTexas) provided in another thread.

 

“In the more than two decades since international companies began turning to Chinese factories to churn out the cheap T-shirts, jeans and sneakers that people around the world wear daily, China's air, land and water have paid a heavy price. China has faced harsh criticism in recent months over the safety of exports ranging from tainted toothpaste to toxic toys. But environmental activists and the Chinese government are increasingly pointing to the flip side: the role multinational companies play in China's growing pollution by demanding ever-lower prices for Chinese products.

 

“Prices on fabric and clothing imported to the U.S. have fallen 25% since 1995, partly due to the downward pricing pressure brought by discount retail chains. One way China's factories have historically kept costs down is by dumping waste water directly into rivers. Treating contaminated water costs upwards of about 13 cents a metric ton, so large factories can save hundreds of thousands of dollars a year by sending waste water directly to rivers in violation of China's water-pollution laws.

 

"Prices in the U.S. are artificially low," says Andy Xie, former chief economist for Morgan Stanley Asia, who now works independently. "You're not paying the costs of pollution, and that is why China is an environmental catastrophe."

 

So it can be argued that we're not only partly to blame for poisoning our own kids and pets, but also for the poisoning of a large part of China's water supply.

[Robert S.]

It is difficult to begin to guess how China can be so patient and forgiving towards the US when our politicians bash them so much of the time. I have always thought that we who love China and her ladies (and others) like we do are helping to maintain a stable relationship between our two countries.

 

Also I would pay a lot more for Chinese products if it were necessary for China to do some colossal environmental cleanup.

[david_dawei]

doesn't our ravenous consumerism for cheap goods practicallly demand that if the trade balance changes with china, it simply shifts to another country (for cheap imports)?

 

Change the price of the big mac and you don't get weight loss, you simply get gluttons who will buy burgers from another cheap source...

 

To focus on 'trade' itself (which is a choice of who you trade with), and with one country, is too narrow minded in so many ways as is being mentioned here, IMO...

[rogerluli]

doesn't our ravenous consumerism for cheap goods practicallly demand that if the trade balance changes with china, it simply shifts to another country (for cheap imports)?

 

Change the price of the big mac and you don't get weight loss, you simply get gluttons who will buy burgers from another cheap source...

 

To focus on 'trade' itself (which is a choice of who you trade with), and with one country, is too narrow minded in so many ways as is being mentioned here, IMO...

 

2/3 of the US economy is consumer spending...If people here stopped buying all the CRAP they don't need our economy would sink slowly in the west... And that would hurt China too...

[rogerluli]

Watched part of a program last night on Chinese TV on this topic. One of the participants gave the example of Europe and trade in footwear. Now China makes a great deal of the shoes sold in the EU but it is not at all a one-sided arrangement. China has to buy most of the machinery for manufacturing footwear from European countries as well as the leather. All of the design, marketing, advertising and retail sales remain in Europe. So consumers get a good quality shoe for a lower price do to the magic of world trade and both sides of the equation benefit.

[TootTaLu]

China has probably cost more jobs in the Taiwan, Phillipines, Japan and Mexico than it has in the USA. So much of the things being imported here had been long ago made outside of the USA.

 

I don't get it Bob???

Everyone in China knows that Taiwan IS a province of China now...

There is only one Taiwan,and China is a part of that Taiwan,right?

[TootTaLu]

Im in YanTian ShenZhen right now.

Im really new to this part of China,so its very different than what Im used to seeing.

 

Its a very clean place,and Im staying near the "Minsk World",a big old Russian war ship used as a tourist museum.

 

There are many factories and a nice shopping area here.

About every hour or so,THOUSANDS of young women and men with blue shirts,factory workers,pour out on to the street and sidewalk,doing some kind of a shift change.

THOUSANDS of these blue shirts trailing all the way down the street,across the overpass,and down the other side of the street.

I have never seen such a mass of people walking on the street before anywhere.

They eat cheap fast food noodles and fried rice from styro boxes as they walk.

I walk past their "apartments" and can clearly see through the windows there are about 12+ people living in each bare room on bunks.

I wonder what kind of benefits these people get,or what happens to them if they become totally disabled for some reason and can no longer work,and I wonder what the living conditions are like for those factory workers from other "less visible" areas of the city.

 

There is something wrong with making money off the sweat of another mans brow.

[rogerluli]

 

There is something wrong with making money off the sweat of another mans brow.

 

umm...That is capitalism.

[rogerluli]

I wonder what kind of benefits these people get,or what happens to them if they become totally disabled for some reason and can no longer work,and I wonder what the living conditions are like for those factory workers from other "less visible" areas of the city.

 

 

I think you, me, and evryone else here knows the answers to those questions...

 

In reality...compared to China the US has gone about 30% over to socialism... And people here call China "COMMUNIST"

[david_dawei]

doesn't our ravenous consumerism for cheap goods practicallly demand that if the trade balance changes with china, it simply shifts to another country (for cheap imports)?

 

Change the price of the big mac and you don't get weight loss, you simply get gluttons who will buy burgers from another cheap source...

 

To focus on 'trade' itself (which is a choice of who you trade with), and with one country, is too narrow minded in so many ways as is being mentioned here, IMO...

 

2/3 of the US economy is consumer spending...If people here stopped buying all the CRAP they don't need our economy would sink slowly in the west... And that would hurt China too...

Based on that.. obese people should not cut down on their eating as that would hurt McDonald's business... and that's so much more important than good health.

 

It seems more a disease on some level... over-spending and over-indulgence is our middle name...

[Joshua + Wang Zhuo]

 

There is something wrong with making money off the sweat of another mans brow.

 

umm...That is capitalism.

 

Yes!!!! And it is wonderful!! It is no lie that sometimes people get pooped on in this capitalistic world. Is it fair that some people live a life of fancy hotels, travel and gourmet foods? Yet others live 12 people to a room, eat instant noodles and work sixty hours a work for little pay? Nope....Not one bit fair!! But......Those people have it bad, can you imagine what life would be like for them if we boycotted the goods that they produced? Suppose for one second that we gave a damn and we stopped purchasing goods that were made in these sweatshops. Where would this people live then? They would not have a roof over their heads. They would not have ANY food in their bellies.

 

Look at America in the 1920's and 1930's. We are a country that experienced an industrial revolution that was supported by cheap labor. Labor that was supplied by the immigrants that came to America for a better life. Did they get a better life? Read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle or Frank McCourt's Angela's Ashes and tell me if they had a better life. Are there changes that could be made? Absolutely!! But nothing happens overnight. And remember, as crappy as it is.......It actually can be worse. You know what makes it better? Trade.

 

I know I sound cold and harsh. Heck, I even feel a little cold and harsh sometimes. What I am saying is not a lie though. China is going through a lot of growing pains right now and they have more to come. 30 years ago they were a sleeping giant..... They sleep no more.

 

 

Joshua

Edited September 9, 2007 by Joshua + Wang Zhuo (see edit history)

[DMikeS4321]

Based on that.. obese people should not cut down on their eating as that would hurt McDonald's business... and that's so much more important than good health.

 

This is psuedo communist clap-trap. I don't think anyone is advocating that we all get fat and die from obesity, but what is your alternative to free choice? If people can't be trusted to decide for themselves, who is going to decide for them?

 

McDonald's provides products that people WANT and will PAY FOR. If people quit eating there, McD would either provide the next thing people want or they would go out of business. What's the alternative, diet police? Who should decide what we can spend our money on?

 

It seems more a disease on some level... over-spending and over-indulgence is our middle name...

 

I think our economic system has done a pretty good job of providing for us, generally moreso than any State directed system.

 

I'm really tired of reading about how messed up our country and our economic system is. David, are you are mod? I thought we weren't supposed to be engaging in politics. I'M trying to be good, but there is enough political garbage in some of these threads to choke a horse.

 

P.S. If public education worked, maybe we wouldn't have so many people over-indulging and spending on things they don't need, but we probably won't hear about that.

Edited September 9, 2007 by DMikeS4321 (see edit history)

[DMikeS4321]

There is something wrong with making money off the sweat of another mans brow.

 

Hmmmmmmm.......

 

Everytime YOU purchase something, YOU are empowering "The Man" and enabling him to keep his foot on the neck of the little guy.

 

This would be funny if it weren't so sad......

[DMikeS4321]

doesn't our ravenous consumerism for cheap goods practicallly demand that if the trade balance changes with china, it simply shifts to another country (for cheap imports)?

 

Yup, then the cycle repeats itself with 1.3 billion Chinese paying to satisfy THEIR hunger for cheap imports from other, less developed countries, thus raising that country's standard of living.

 

Adam Smith was right. Too bad more people haven't read his work....

Edited September 9, 2007 by DMikeS4321 (see edit history)

[IllinoisDave]

I don't know which is worse. People who refuse to believe that this country can do ANYTHING wrong or people who say how tired they are of hearing others point out what IS wrong.

 

It's not about politics, it's about culture! The minute someone even suggests that something Americans do could possibly be wrong, certain people jump down their throats like they just whizzed on the Washington Monument.

 

Jeez!