Sa Jiao

[A Mafan]

"Sa Jiao" (Èö½¿) doesn't have a corresponding English word.

If you look it up in the dictionary, it probably says something like: "to act like a pampered child."

 

It took some time for me to understand my wife's sa jiao methods. It usually isn't complaining with a cute pout (the typical Sa Jiao), it usually is complaining almost nonsensically about something she said she wanted. It's putting me in a no-win situation, almost like she's looking to cause trouble, making something of nothing.

 

It caused many of our fights, as I didn't understand what she wanted/needed.

 

I really can't tell you what the breakthrough was, except just being convinced that she DOES love me and want to be happy with me forever, and then still doing this sort of angry complaining. Well, if she loves me as much as she says she does, maybe I'm misinterpreting her words and tone of voice?

 

So instead of making an issue of what she originally said she wanted, when she pulled out her angry complaint, I just reversed course and went with her complaint. She dropped the anger and we had a good time.

 

Thus, it finally started to sink in: what she wants is to know that I care; that I put her first; that I seek her happiness, even if it might be inconsistent with what she just said 5 minutes ago. I started to notice that what she says she wants first is when she is trying to be reasonable, logicial, and self-sacrificing...but her Sa Jiao is a cry for me to show my love for her.

 

So I talked to her about it last night in the hot tub. She not only agreed that what I originally thought was small-minded, angry complaining *WAS* her "Sa Jiao". She asked what "sa jiao" was in English, and I told her "to act like a child", and that when a US woman tries it, the typical US reaction is an impatient, "Oh grow up!" She said that Sa Jiao is very womanly in Chinese society; a woman who doesn't use Sa Jiao isn't really very feminine, as far as she understands it.

 

So if your wife is a little bit bitchy, it might be her way of Sa Jiao. It is child-like in how it is acting out to cry for attention/love. It might be soft (like the semi-coquettish pouting) or it might be hard, like my wife's. But it shouldn't be taken as a personal affront. If you respond by giving the love/attention/consideration she is looking for, you'll avoid a fight and grow closer to your wife.

 

And you Chinese wives (if you are reading this), if you often end up in a fight when you try to Sa Jiao, you can try to make your Sa Jiao more clear; be sure to explain to your husband what you are doing and what you want him to do about it at some point when you aren't fighting.

[IllinoisDave]

Very helpful info. I'll keep it in mind in the future.

I'm very glad to hear things are smoother for you two. You've shown great patience under trying circumstances.

I hope I can do the same when the time comes.

Continued peaceful times to you.

[sweattrl1]

the way i found to solve the problem with my wife is to tell her to pack her bags , and i will book her a ticket back to china the first thing in the morning , works every time , always the night gets better

[David&Wendy]

the way i found to solve the problem with my wife is to tell her to pack her bags , and i will book her a ticket back to china the first thing in the morning , works every time , always the night gets better

 

I'm thinking that would be the opposite response A Mafan was mentioning.

 

her Sa Jiao is a cry for me to show my love for her.

[SirLancelot]

A Mafan, as always, I love your posts. Extremely insightful, analytical and very useful.

 

The only thing I would add is that "Èö½¿" probably would be used more often from more pampered Chinese women vs. the land-toiling rural working kind of Chinese women. That is not to say that every women from the countryside wouldn't utilized "Èö½¿" at one point or another, but they'd utilize it much less than more pampered city girls.

 

That is my opinion anyway. Others are free to disagree.

 

Again, great post A Mafan!

 

edit: I think "Èö½¿" also implies a more "to act in a very affectionate way" but in a childlike/childish playful manner vs. a more sexually/sensually affectionate manner.

 

"Sa Jiao" (Èö½¿) doesn't have a corresponding English word.

If you look it up in the dictionary, it probably says something like: "to act like a pampered child."

 

It took some time for me to understand my wife's sa jiao methods. It usually isn't complaining with a cute pout (the typical Sa Jiao), it usually is complaining almost nonsensically about something she said she wanted. It's putting me in a no-win situation, almost like she's looking to cause trouble, making something of nothing.

 

It caused many of our fights, as I didn't understand what she wanted/needed.

 

I really can't tell you what the breakthrough was, except just being convinced that she DOES love me and want to be happy with me forever, and then still doing this sort of angry complaining. Well, if she loves me as much as she says she does, maybe I'm misinterpreting her words and tone of voice?

 

So instead of making an issue of what she originally said she wanted, when she pulled out her angry complaint, I just reversed course and went with her complaint. She dropped the anger and we had a good time.

 

Thus, it finally started to sink in: what she wants is to know that I care; that I put her first; that I seek her happiness, even if it might be inconsistent with what she just said 5 minutes ago. I started to notice that what she says she wants first is when she is trying to be reasonable, logicial, and self-sacrificing...but her Sa Jiao is a cry for me to show my love for her.

 

So I talked to her about it last night in the hot tub. She not only agreed that what I originally thought was small-minded, angry complaining *WAS* her "Sa Jiao". She asked what "sa jiao" was in English, and I told her "to act like a child", and that when a US woman tries it, the typical US reaction is an impatient, "Oh grow up!" She said that Sa Jiao is very womanly in Chinese society; a woman who doesn't use Sa Jiao isn't really very feminine, as far as she understands it.

 

So if your wife is a little bit bitchy, it might be her way of Sa Jiao. It is child-like in how it is acting out to cry for attention/love. It might be soft (like the semi-coquettish pouting) or it might be hard, like my wife's. But it shouldn't be taken as a personal affront. If you respond by giving the love/attention/consideration she is looking for, you'll avoid a fight and grow closer to your wife.

 

And you Chinese wives (if you are reading this), if you often end up in a fight when you try to Sa Jiao, you can try to make your Sa Jiao more clear; be sure to explain to your husband what you are doing and what you want him to do about it at some point when you aren't fighting.

Edited September 5, 2007 by SirLancelot (see edit history)

[NewDay2006]

Good to hear good news A-mafan. I must applaud you, you have been the most patience in the face of problems with your wife, I'm glad things are working out for the better.

[David&Wendy]

edit: I think "Èö½¿" also implies a more "to act in a very affectionate way" but in a childlike/childish playful manner vs. a more sexually/sensually affectionate manner.

 

 

childlike/childish playful manner in public

and

a more sexually/sensually affectionate manner in private

 

 

So is this a Chinese version of a English idiom "A lady in public and a freak in the bed." What are your thoughts?

[A Mafan]

A Mafan, as always, I love your posts. Extremely insightful, analytical and very useful.

 

The only thing I would add is that "Èö½¿" probably would be used more often from more pampered Chinese women vs. the land-toiling rural working kind of Chinese women. That is not to say that every women from the countryside wouldn't utilized "Èö½¿" at one point or another, but they'd utilize it much less than more pampered city girls.

 

That is my opinion anyway. Others are free to disagree.

 

Again, great post A Mafan!

 

edit: I think "Èö½¿" also implies a more "to act in a very affectionate way" but in a childlike/childish playful manner vs. a more sexually/sensually affectionate manner.

Yeah. I *almost* thought that "coquettish" was the closest to "sajiao", but sajiao really isn't so much Mae West as Shirley Temple. Apologies for how sick that sounds...

...but the point is that Chinese women (subject to all the exceptions and caveats, of course) want their man to indulge them in emotional matters. She pointed me to an article on the Sina.com boards that was getting lots of approving comments from women that talked about women wanting their man to be a tall, mature tree. Able to flex in high winds, but sturdy enough to never falter.

 

Looking back, it now seems like American relationships are so obsessed with equality that it's like the contrast has been turned way down: the main point of a happy marriage is to not fight, not cheat, and collect stuff. But the main point of a happy Chinese marriage (at least as I understand what my wife wants) is more giving, but more receiving. She gives to an extent that an American woman would consider exploitation by a chauvinistic pig...but then she expects to get just as much, to an extent that I haven't been able to match until now (and still fall short at times).

 

That's an oversimplification, of course.

 

The other thing I'm finding out is that although I understood Chinese society well enough to fit in quite well as friends, co-workers, acquaintances, and not be an "ugly american" as a tourist, my understanding was still woefully inadequate for a loving relationship.

 

I'm almost hesitant to say this (because every time I do, we have another big fight), but this time I think I've got it figured out and we've turned a corner.

 

We are being very careful to increase our communication. And several of the things I've been working on with my own personality/maturity/understanding are finally starting to bear fruit all at once.

 

Those of you who are praying types, though, keep praying for us. Still, I think we may finally have the worst behind us.

[credzba]

You guys are scaring me !!

 

I am married to a woman who I would do anything I can to make her happy.

Yet, when I read what you guys are saying, you may as well be talking rubbish.. I don't understand a thing your saying.

 

So, it scares me. What is it I need to know to make my wife happy?

I know you have tried to explain, and I read your words, but I dont understand at all

 

If someone can explain to me in really simple words, maybe I can get it?

[SirLancelot]

A Mafan, as always, I love your posts. Extremely insightful, analytical and very useful.

 

The only thing I would add is that "撒娇" probably would be used more often from more pampered Chinese women vs. the land-toiling rural working kind of Chinese women. That is not to say that every women from the countryside wouldn't utilized "撒娇" at one point or another, but they'd utilize it much less than more pampered city girls.

 

That is my opinion anyway. Others are free to disagree.

 

Again, great post A Mafan!

 

edit: I think "撒娇" also implies a more "to act in a very affectionate way" but in a childlike/childish playful manner vs. a more sexually/sensually affectionate manner.

Yeah. I *almost* thought that "coquettish" was the closest to "sajiao", but sajiao really isn't so much Mae West as Shirley Temple. Apologies for how sick that sounds...

...but the point is that Chinese women (subject to all the exceptions and caveats, of course) want their man to indulge them in emotional matters. She pointed me to an article on the Sina.com boards that was getting lots of approving comments from women that talked about women wanting their man to be a tall, mature tree. Able to flex in high winds, but sturdy enough to never falter.

 

Looking back, it now seems like American relationships are so obsessed with equality that it's like the contrast has been turned way down: the main point of a happy marriage is to not fight, not cheat, and collect stuff. But the main point of a happy Chinese marriage (at least as I understand what my wife wants) is more giving, but more receiving. She gives to an extent that an American woman would consider exploitation by a chauvinistic pig...but then she expects to get just as much, to an extent that I haven't been able to match until now (and still fall short at times).

 

That's an oversimplification, of course.

 

The other thing I'm finding out is that although I understood Chinese society well enough to fit in quite well as friends, co-workers, acquaintances, and not be an "ugly american" as a tourist, my understanding was still woefully inadequate for a loving relationship.

 

I'm almost hesitant to say this (because every time I do, we have another big fight), but this time I think I've got it figured out and we've turned a corner.

 

We are being very careful to increase our communication. And several of the things I've been working on with my own personality/maturity/understanding are finally starting to bear fruit all at once.

 

Those of you who are praying types, though, keep praying for us. Still, I think we may finally have the worst behind us.

 

The amazing thing to me is how you discover these concepts/beliefs/paradigms/characteristics about Chinese culture that you've posted about in your threads. It amazes me you're able to put your fingers on these qualities, let alone write about them in such analytical detail.

 

How do you go about this? Do simply observe and come to these conclusions on your own? Or are you reading about these concepts with lots of analysis in a book somewhere else? Or is your wife directly telling you all these things about Chinese culture? It's amazing to me how you find out about these things.

 

You really should write a book about all this. Chinese people intrinsically understand what you're referring to but for the Western man, I think it's almost impossible to understand without being completely immersed in the Chinese culture.

 

My sincerest wishes for a happy and long lasting marriage for you and your wife A Mafan!

Edited September 6, 2007 by SirLancelot (see edit history)

[A Mafan]

You guys are scaring me !!

 

I am married to a woman who I would do anything I can to make her happy.

Yet, when I read what you guys are saying, you may as well be talking rubbish.. I don't understand a thing your saying.

 

So, it scares me. What is it I need to know to make my wife happy?

I know you have tried to explain, and I read your words, but I dont understand at all

 

If someone can explain to me in really simple words, maybe I can get it?

No reason to be scared. I've had it tougher than most, I think...probably due to insecurities and immaturities on both our parts; I talk a good game in theory, but had big difficulty putting it into practice.

 

Every woman is different, so what you need to do is find out what she wants, and give it to her.

 

But temper is treated differently in China than here. Marry her and love her no matter what. And truly make that "no matter what". Never say, "I want a divorce", or "it's over". Talk forever about how unhappy you are, if you must, but never say those words.

 

Then talk. Ask. Check feedback. Make sure you create lots of good memories. Love her. Put her first.

 

That's exactly what you would/should do in any relationship, yes.

 

The thing is, you both want happiness, togetherness, respect. You need to take the time to find out what buttons you need to push to make her feel safe, secure, and loved, and you need to patiently teach her what buttons she needs to push to make you feel safe, secure, and loved.

 

You guys are going to be together for a reason. Don't let go of that reason. Any problems you have are 99% likely to be due to mis-communication or misunderstanding. She may expect you to be the one to resolve it. Be flexible, be ready.

 

If you can find it with the search functions, read Thomas Promise's story. It's not all in one place...but in my opinion (and maybe my opinion only), it's one of the saddest tales of missed opportunities and missed communications I've seen here. I was almost another one.

Edited September 6, 2007 by A Mafan (see edit history)

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

If you can find it with the search functions, read Thomas Promise's story. It's not all in one place...but in my opinion (and maybe my opinion only), it's one of the saddest tales of missed opportunities and missed communications I've seen here. I was almost another one.

 

All of us are vulnerable. A good friend of mine came to visit a short time after Lan and Sarah arrived. Several years ago, He, his wife, and four children moved to a small outback town in Australia, where he was to teach High School. Though it is an English speaking territory his wife and he related several stories where the cultural adjustment had many times been nearly unbearable.

 

He shared one of the harder times after his arrival when he said he found it difficult to discern whether the towns people and school staff were taunting him, and joking. To this day he says he isn't sure, but he believes they were testing him by being provocative about his American heritage, and taunting to a fight. He's a passive guy, so he didn't go there. Eventually, his wife and children rebelled, and he received an ultimatim; either we move back to the US now, or you stay here alone.

 

My friend Kevin and his wife talked to Lan and I a good long time, passing along a few articles about the various levels of cultural adjustment. Don't have them at my fingertips right now, but there was one in particular that hit home; it cited various stages of development, starting with:

 

1. Disorientation; feeling of being displaced;fish out of water

2. Insecurity, with difficulty and reluctance dealing with day to day issues.

3. Anger; expressions of anger towards those closest; blaming, etc.

4. Depression, withdrawl

 

The article went on discussing these stages and how both the individual and family has a choice to either adjust, or give up.

 

This is tough stuff. Though everyone may have slightly different experiences, all of us will share these stages to some degree. Because we're dealing with China, the cultural differences are magnified, and often more difficult.

Edited September 6, 2007 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[Joanne]

I am totally, absolutely, impressed, AM!

 

A man with such devotion and would spend this much brain power to analyze what his wife needs got to be an excellent husband. Your wife is lucky.

 

As for Sa Jiao, I agree, many of the Chinese women learned it natually from Childhood. It is great that you two learned to cope with it and made the best out of it.

 

In my case, I probably had never learned that, not given any chance when I was a child, not given any chance when I am a wife. So I just have to go on without it, the preveliged feminine trait. Now I remember that some of my male college classmates pointed out to me at various reunion occasions that I didn't give them any chance to help out. They said that a woman should show some weaknesses at times so to bring out the heroism of the male companions.

[SirLancelot]

This is tough stuff. Though everyone may have slightly different experiences, all of us will share these stages to some degree. Because we're dealing with China, the cultural differences are magnified, and often more difficult.

 

SQN, I'm glad you added your last part as prior to reading the very last caveat, I was thinking you're crazy to think an American moving to Australia is anything like a Chinese person moving to the USA. An American moving to a western country where the native language is English--such as the UK or Australia--has it so much easier--IMO--than even a Chinese person moving from GuangXi province China to Shanghai or Beijing, let alone from China to the US. There's absolutely no comparison, IMO. The difference between American culture and Chinese culture is much, much greater than between American culture and Australian culture. And of course the complete difference in language makes it yet more difficult.

 

So glad A Mafan tries to help everyone by offering to share his analysis and understanding.

Edited September 6, 2007 by SirLancelot (see edit history)

[Joanne]

 

So glad A Mafan tries to help everyone by offering to share his analysis and understanding.

 

I agree. He sees and expresses so clearly. I am amazed.