K3 Denied

[Pete Shaolan]

The key for him would be to demonstrate that he actually has assets that he can draw from. I think the income thing may be a lost cause, since it's negative.

 

 

My accountant drew up a list of properties and the net value to no avail.

[Randy W]

The key for him would be to demonstrate that he actually has assets that he can draw from. I think the income thing may be a lost cause, since it's negative.

 

My accountant drew up a list of properties and the net value to no avail.

 

 

I assume you had a figure on the I-134 where it says "I own real estate values at ________", and "with mortgages and other encumbrances thereon amounting to __________" that would have greatly exceeded 125% of the poverty line?

 

If so, perhaps another VO would be more receptive to your situation, but that may be an attempt you can't afford to make. A co-sponsor would seem to be prudent here.

Edited August 6, 2007 by Randy W (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

I believe the original VO reviews overcome, unless their 'tour' is over with.

 

I think your not going to convince this VO of Account 101 easily.. so a co-sponsor would simply DO IT... it's only the I-134, so no big deal... later, just do AOS and try again with your income.

[Pete Shaolan]

I believe the original VO reviews overcome, unless their 'tour' is over with.

 

I think your not going to convince this VO of Account 101 easily.. so a co-sponsor would simply DO IT... it's only the I-134, so no big deal... later, just do AOS and try again with your income.

 

 

So David, do you think I should bother with another more simplified explanation from my accountant. I assume your answer would be no.

[david_dawei]

I believe the original VO reviews overcome, unless their 'tour' is over with.

 

I think your not going to convince this VO of Account 101 easily.. so a co-sponsor would simply DO IT... it's only the I-134, so no big deal... later, just do AOS and try again with your income.

 

 

So David, do you think I should bother with another more simplified explanation from my accountant. I assume your answer would be no.

Like Lee said.. your objective is to get her here... I wouldn't count on a profit/loss light bulb going on in the VOs head... You get a more simpilified explanation, but I personally would still submit a co-sponsor with it... cover all bases.

[jim_julian]

pb, I would include the simplified explanation just to get it on the record, but I'd also include the co-sponsor to, as others have said, keep it in simple terms that any VO can understand.

 

The VO's are just trying to do their job which is, inter alia, to catch the sham marriages and keep the welfare cases out of the US. It seems that VOs vary widely in their expertise. The two we dealt with were outstanding and very helpful ... you may have drawn one with a different orientation.

 

Hang in there ... you'll make it!

[david_dawei]

pb, I would include the simplified explanation just to get it on the record,

I was just going to post this comment... since everything shows up at AOS.. might as well show you took an extra step to provide clearer financial documentation.. but still do co-sponsor.. good luck.

[SirLancelot]

Now a little more explanation of the denial. The interviewer did not accept my financial documents as showing enough income. My brother and I started buying rental housing 3 years ago and have put all profits back into the business as we fixed up or made new purchases. Therefore I had my accountant write up a finacial statement showing plenty of cash flow. The interviewer did not understand that cash flow is mostly profit and can be taken as income or as we did, reinvest. Neither did she understand how I can show an ability to support SO if tax return shows a loss. Very simply, depreciation from the houses and reinvestment as expenses. The cash is there anytime I want to take it and have recently begun taking some in anticipation of my SO's arrival. Should I send copies of these checks? Now she wants my 2004 and 2005 returns which will be the same as the 2006. I can have my accountant re-explain in simpler terms along with the returns or just have my father co-sponser and not chance that the VO has tunnel vision and can only see the actual bottom line income. Can I send in the co-sponser info with the requested info and should the co-sponser tax returns be IRS certified or just notorized?

 

pb115, did you document using the income method or the assets method? Throughout this whole thread, it is still not clear to me if you used the assets method. If your tax returns show a net loss each year, then you better be properly documenting with the assets method, as your income is indeed negative.

 

Or, alternatively, you can submit a co-sponsor at overcome as many have advised.

 

The burden really is on you to show/prove to the VO that you're capable financially. It's not the VO's job to be a forensic accountant or tax attorney and dig very deep into your tax filings to understand your financial picture.

 

Good luck on the overcome.

[Pete Shaolan]

Now a little more explanation of the denial. The interviewer did not accept my financial documents as showing enough income. My brother and I started buying rental housing 3 years ago and have put all profits back into the business as we fixed up or made new purchases. Therefore I had my accountant write up a finacial statement showing plenty of cash flow. The interviewer did not understand that cash flow is mostly profit and can be taken as income or as we did, reinvest. Neither did she understand how I can show an ability to support SO if tax return shows a loss. Very simply, depreciation from the houses and reinvestment as expenses. The cash is there anytime I want to take it and have recently begun taking some in anticipation of my SO's arrival. Should I send copies of these checks? Now she wants my 2004 and 2005 returns which will be the same as the 2006. I can have my accountant re-explain in simpler terms along with the returns or just have my father co-sponser and not chance that the VO has tunnel vision and can only see the actual bottom line income. Can I send in the co-sponser info with the requested info and should the co-sponser tax returns be IRS certified or just notorized?

 

pb115, did you document using the income method or the assets method? Throughout this whole thread, it is still not clear to me if you used the assets method. If your tax returns show a net loss each year, then you better be properly documenting with the assets method, as your income is indeed negative.

 

Or, alternatively, you can submit a co-sponsor at overcome as many have advised.

 

The burden really is on you to show/prove to the VO that you're capable financially. It's not the VO's job to be a forensic accountant or tax attorney and dig very deep into your tax filings to understand your financial picture.

 

Good luck on the overcome.

 

Yes I showed both income and assets. I thank everyone for your sound advice.

[LeeFisher3]

The VO's are not tax accountants and complex tax returns can cause problems. They are instructed to look for numbers on a tax return at a specific place and if it's not there they request more info.

 

Your objective here is to get the visa as easily as possible. So I'd suggest ordering tax transcripts and submitting them instead of a tax return and using a co-sponsor.

 

You can obtain a transcript by calling (800)¨C829¨C1040 and they usually arrive in less than 10 days.

 

You want this to be a simple overcome. Avoid listing assets or real estate, they can cause requests for appraisals.

 

When you submit, provide your I-134 with 3 years tax transcripts as well as an I-134 from your co-sponsor. I'd recommend 3 years tax transcripts from your co-sponsor as well.

 

A tax transcript would be simpler but it would still show the same apparent lack of income to the casual observer as the return I submitted. I say apparent because the numbers are there if one knows what to look for. Its probably futile so I will definitely include the co-sponser this time. Is a tax script certified by the IRS?

I understand about showing the lack of income and as you have a co-sponsor lined up this is probably your easiest route to get the visa completed.

 

Tax transcripts from the IRS do not need to be notarized and are accepted at face value without certification.

 

My advice for quick and easy overcome concerning income is to show the tax transcripts only and have a co-sponsor. You want them to look at you and say "too poor" and look at the co-sponsor and say "this is good" and give the pink slip for a visa.

 

Submitting the real estate at this time could trigger them asking for a certified appraisal of all properties which would cost you both time and money, time being the critical item here.

 

When you file for AOS and submit the I-864 you can try the listing of assets and all, but she will be in the US at that time and you will have more time to help them understand your financial situation.

 

You need to verify there are no other items listed on the blue slip, many times the VO will check off more than one item and our darlings will often fixate on what they believe to be the most important or sometimes the first item. You want to be sure to address each item requested.

 

As for the phone call to schedule the submission of overcome documents, it would probably be best to have your wife call for this. They have very few English speakers at the call center and with her calling you have better opportunities at getting someone on the phone to schedule the appointment.

[Pete Shaolan]

The VO's are not tax accountants and complex tax returns can cause problems. They are instructed to look for numbers on a tax return at a specific place and if it's not there they request more info.

 

Your objective here is to get the visa as easily as possible. So I'd suggest ordering tax transcripts and submitting them instead of a tax return and using a co-sponsor.

 

You can obtain a transcript by calling (800)¨C829¨C1040 and they usually arrive in less than 10 days.

 

You want this to be a simple overcome. Avoid listing assets or real estate, they can cause requests for appraisals.

 

When you submit, provide your I-134 with 3 years tax transcripts as well as an I-134 from your co-sponsor. I'd recommend 3 years tax transcripts from your co-sponsor as well.

 

A tax transcript would be simpler but it would still show the same apparent lack of income to the casual observer as the return I submitted. I say apparent because the numbers are there if one knows what to look for. Its probably futile so I will definitely include the co-sponser this time. Is a tax script certified by the IRS?

I understand about showing the lack of income and as you have a co-sponsor lined up this is probably your easiest route to get the visa completed.

 

Tax transcripts from the IRS do not need to be notarized and are accepted at face value without certification.

 

My advice for quick and easy overcome concerning income is to show the tax transcripts only and have a co-sponsor. You want them to look at you and say "too poor" and look at the co-sponsor and say "this is good" and give the pink slip for a visa.

 

Submitting the real estate at this time could trigger them asking for a certified appraisal of all properties which would cost you both time and money, time being the critical item here.

 

When you file for AOS and submit the I-864 you can try the listing of assets and all, but she will be in the US at that time and you will have more time to help them understand your financial situation.

 

You need to verify there are no other items listed on the blue slip, many times the VO will check off more than one item and our darlings will often fixate on what they believe to be the most important or sometimes the first item. You want to be sure to address each item requested.

 

As for the phone call to schedule the submission of overcome documents, it would probably be best to have your wife call for this. They have very few English speakers at the call center and with her calling you have better opportunities at getting someone on the phone to schedule the appointment.

 

Too late. I already called. 3X. Each time I got someone who spoke good English. The new date is Sept. 4 . The first time I paid online my computer showed an error from the windows pop-up blocker so I paid again for 8 minutes. But when checking emails it went through so if anyone who needs 8 free minutes I'll give you the pin number. First come, first served. PM me.

[warpedbored]

Income is one area where there are no shades of gray. You either make 125% of the poverty guidelines or you don't. If you don't you must either show sufficient assets or get a co-sponsor. As Lee has alluded many people submit more than they need which can confuse the situation. I recall a couple of years ago someone who was borderline income also submitted the equity in his home as assets. He probably would have been fine without it but they made him get a certified appraisal.

Edited August 6, 2007 by warpedbored (see edit history)

[SirLancelot]

Income is one area where there are no shades of gray. You either make 125% of the poverty guidelines or you don't. If you don't you must either show sufficient assets or get a co-sponsor. As Lee has alluded many people submit more than they need which can confuse the situation. I recall a couple of years ago someone who was borderline income also submitted the equity in his home as assets. He probably would have been fine without it but they made him get a certified appraisal.

 

Not to get too sidetracked, but I'd like to ask a related question.

 

I've heard it suggested in some posts that when documenting with assets--especially real estate property--that one may need to have an appraisal, but doesn't the annual property tax assessment suffice?

 

I don't know how it's done in other states, but in CA, the county assessor's office sends you an annual property tax bill for the property tax of your property. Each year, the value of your property is listed on the tax bill. Wouldn't this suffice as an official appraisal?

[david_dawei]

Since the I-134 is often silent on useful details, the I-864 should be the guide.. so I'll include here the instruction comments.. may not answer Lance's question but provides something about assets:

 

Evidence for Assets:

If you want to use your assets, the assets of your household members or dependents, and/or the assets of the immigrant you are sponsoring to meet the minimum income requirement, you must provide evidence of assets with a cash value that equals at least five times the difference between your total household income and the minimum income requirement. For the assets of a household member, other than the immigrant(s) you are sponsoring, to be considered, the household member must complete and sign Form I-864A, Contract Between Sponsor and Household Member.

 

All assets must be supported with evidence to verify location, ownership, and value of each asset. Any liens and liabilities relating to the assets must be documented. List only assets that can be readily converted into cash within one year. Evidence of assets includes, but is not limited to the following:

- Bank statements covering the last 12 months, or a statement from an officer of the bank or other financial institution in which you have deposits, including deposit/withdrawal history for the last 12 months, and

current balance;

- Evidence of ownership and value of stocks, bonds, and certificates of deposit, and date(s) acquired;

- Evidence of ownership and value of other personal property, and date(s) acquired; and

- Evidence of ownership and value of any real estate, and date(s) acquired.

[Randy W]

I think rumors get started when we take one person's experience as gospel, when the truth may be that that particular case was simply slated for closer scrutiny by the powers that be at GUZ.

 

In reality, the VO has leeway as to what he will accept as evidence.