purchasing a home in China

[Guest Rob & Jin]

Well my wife is back from Zhongshan now. Looks like a no go on the house she went to look at. There was a tour of the place with approx 30 other people. She told me "house no good" so I will wait and find others to look at when I go the end of this month. If anyone knows of any other places in Zhongshan to look then please let me know.

 

I don't know Zhongshan. You should not waste your time looking at houses that aren't built by the top 10 national builders. Ordinarily I'd only consider the top 5, but in Zhongshan you might have to lower that a bit.

 

Hopson seems to be everywhere in China and they are #3. Unfortunately I don't know their Chinese name, but I'll ask my secretary once the vacation is over.

 

Thanks Bill and I will try and get the name of the builder she was dealing with. Perhaps someway I can find this top ten list. Thanks again buddy.

 

I'll get you the list in Chinese after the holidays. There are certain national builders that are reputable and you'll definitely stand a better chance with them than with others.

 

Charles PM me if you want a really nice new house, just ouside of Lijiang, good prices fantastic location

[chilton747]

Well my wife is back from Zhongshan now. Looks like a no go on the house she went to look at. There was a tour of the place with approx 30 other people. She told me "house no good" so I will wait and find others to look at when I go the end of this month. If anyone knows of any other places in Zhongshan to look then please let me know.

 

I don't know Zhongshan. You should not waste your time looking at houses that aren't built by the top 10 national builders. Ordinarily I'd only consider the top 5, but in Zhongshan you might have to lower that a bit.

 

Hopson seems to be everywhere in China and they are #3. Unfortunately I don't know their Chinese name, but I'll ask my secretary once the vacation is over.

 

Thanks Bill and I will try and get the name of the builder she was dealing with. Perhaps someway I can find this top ten list. Thanks again buddy.

 

I'll get you the list in Chinese after the holidays. There are certain national builders that are reputable and you'll definitely stand a better chance with them than with others.

 

Charles PM me if you want a really nice new house, just ouside of Lijiang, good prices fantastic location

 

Lijiang is very nice. PM in place Thanks Rob

[rogerluli]

"a bubble on top of a bubble"...

 

or

 

"The greatest chapters of American urban development just pale in comparison to what is happeneing today in China."...

 

 

 

Real estate in China drives an IPO boom

By David Barboza

 

Monday, October 8, 2007

SHANGHAI: Shares of Soho China, a Beijing property developer, soared 15 percent Monday on their first day of trading in Hong Kong - the latest hot public stock offering that is creating a new class of Chinese real estate tycoons.

 

The spectacular debut of Soho, which values the company at $6 billion, comes at a time when stock prices in China are skyrocketing and some of the country's biggest cities are being radically transformed by a huge building boom.

 

Despite government efforts to curb real estate speculation in China, housing prices continue to rise, fueling even more construction, and also a frenzy of initial public stock offerings by big real estate companies.

 

Indeed, over the past few years, the IPO boom has already made some individuals worth billions of dollars.

 

While the United States is in the grips of a subprime mortgage crisis, investors in Chinese real estate are celebrating and pushing the value of housing and housing shares to spectacular heights.

 

The public offering Monday raised nearly $1.7 billion for Soho China, or as much as Google raised in its 2004 initial stock offering in the United States.

 

The founders of Soho, Pan Shiyi and Zhang Xin, a husband-and-wife team known for their stylish Beijing developments, are now worth close to $4 billion on paper, based on the closing price Monday.

 

A Chinese real estate developer named Country Garden raised $1.9 billion in a Hong Kong stock offering this year.

 

The largest shareholder in Country Garden is the founder's 26-year-old daughter, Yang Huiyan. She is now believed to be the richest person in China, with shares valued at about $16 billion.

 

Last year, the richest individual in China, according to Forbes, was Wong Kwong Yu, a retailing entrepreneur who was said to be worth $2.3 billion.

 

"This is sort of the best play in this market," said Michael Pettis, an associate professor of finance at Beijing University and a former investment banker. "In real estate you're getting overinflated profits from borrowing money to get cheap land and then selling at inflated prices; and then you've got a stock market that is valuing a dollar of earnings at about 40 or 50 times. So you've got a bubble on top of a bubble."

 

The rise of Soho China and its real estate peers is emblematic of this country's feverish economic growth, its hulking ambitions and its unprecedented construction boom, which is helping drive up the prices of commodities around the world.

 

With China rapidly urbanizing, millions of people are being relocated, sometimes against their will, to make way for sprawling new housing developments and so-called CBDs, or central business districts.

 

Many big projects, however, are veritable urban Levittowns, erected in helter-skelter fashion, sometimes with as many as 50 look-alike high-rises crowded onto a single plot of land.

 

"The scale of what's happening there is unimaginable," said Thomas Campanella, an assistant professor of city and regional planning at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, and the author of the forthcoming book, "The Concrete Dragon," a portrait of China's spectacular rise.

 

"The greatest chapters of American urban development just pale in comparison to what is happening today in China," he said.

 

Property developers who were lucky enough to get hold of valuable land near major urban centers are now sitting on enormous fortunes.

 

When observers compile lists of the wealthiest individuals in China, the ranks are often well stocked with developers of real estate, like Xu Rongmao of Shimao, who is worth an estimated $6.7 billion, and Chen Zhuolin of Agile Properties, who is worth about $4.7 billion.

 

There have been warnings, of course, about a real estate downturn and the threats of a recent jump in inflation, which some analysts fear could slow the economy, particularly after Beijing holds the 2008 Olympics.

 

But in spite of the talk of housing bubbles, illegal land grabs and even corrupt developers, China remains in the throes of the real estate bonanza.

 

Global investment banks are among those cashing in.

 

Goldman Sachs and HSBC took Soho public. Merrill Lynch, UBS and Credit Suisse have played a role in big real estate offerings.

 

And Morgan Stanley has done more than most, helping raise $6 billion over the past three years by taking eight Chinese real estate companies public, including Shimao, Agile and Country Garden.

 

Most of the developers have seen their shares climb even higher after listing.

 

Shares of Shimao, for instance, are up 288 percent in just over a year; and Agile's stock has climbed nearly 400 percent in less than two years.

 

For Soho China, the latest red-hot offering, going public means paying down debt and refilling the coffers of a company that already has prime land in Beijing's central business district, where a crush of luxury residences and office towers are going up, seemingly all at once.

 

Zhang, a former Goldman Sachs investment banker, and her husband, Pan, a pioneering real estate developer who also has a popular blog, have used a blend of marketing wizardry, savvy land deals and international architects to create a fortune in the span of just over a decade.

 

The company's projects, like Soho Jianwei in central Beijing, are populated by entrepreneurs, movie stars, Western executives and even Starbuck's coffee shops.

 

"I'm really amazed at what I've been seeing in China," Campanella said. "It's as if home improvement and decoration are the No. 1 avocations there."

[chilton747]

Home Depot should do very well in China! I see the cost of housing rising greatly there. I hope to find something soon before it gets out of range for me. Zhongshan is still my number one choice but anywhere in Guangdong will be good.

[chilton747]

Hey GZBILL, did you ever find the names of a couple good and reputable builders' names and possibly a way to contact them? Thanks good buddy for all of your help.

[tsap seui]

In one area just outside Shenyang the same houses that were under construction in August have now jumped over 50% per m2 as of mid September.

 

tsap seui

[chilton747]

In one area just outside Shenyang the same houses that were under construction in August have now jumped over 50% per m2 as of mid September.

 

tsap seui

 

My wife has been reporting the same things to me I hope I find something soon or it will be out of reach for us

[rogerluli]

One little known city that I thought was very nice in Guangdong is Zhaoqing. It's on the main tollway west of Guangzhou about an hour or two. It has a big park with the same kind of karst topography that is around Yangshuo and it's on a major river also. Seemed clean, it is also on the rail line into GZ. Sorry I know nothing about houses there.

[chilton747]

One little known city that I thought was very nice in Guangdong is Zhaoqing. It's on the main tollway west of Guangzhou about an hour or two. It has a big park with the same kind of karst topography that is around Yangshuo and it's on a major river also. Seemed clean, it is also on the rail line into GZ. Sorry I know nothing about houses there.

Thanks buddy I will put that on my list I plan on doing a lot of looking around Guangdong the end of this month. I also want to spend a night on Hainan just for fun that is if I have enough time. Finding a house is top priority.

[rogerluli]

In one area just outside Shenyang the same houses that were under construction in August have now jumped over 50% per m2 as of mid September.

 

tsap seui

 

My wife has been reporting the same things to me I hope I find something soon or it will be out of reach for us

 

Prices in most mid to smaller size Chinese cities have not increased anything like this. It's mostly only prices in the largest cities that have gone up so high, so fast... "a bubble on a bubble"

[GZBILL]

One little known city that I thought was very nice in Guangdong is Zhaoqing. It's on the main tollway west of Guangzhou about an hour or two. It has a big park with the same kind of karst topography that is around Yangshuo and it's on a major river also. Seemed clean, it is also on the rail line into GZ. Sorry I know nothing about houses there.

 

I would stay away from not only Zhaoqing, but also a nearby city called Lianzhou. The problem is transportation. Rail service is limited and the so-called highways that link these cities with the rest of Guangdong province are garbage. They all look like they have been repeatedly bombed by B-52s and there are no real plans to repair them. A normally 45 minute drive from, say, Qingyuan to either Zhaoqing or Lianzhou will take upwards of 3 hours and virtually destroy your kidneys no matter how much foam padding you are sitting on.

 

On the other hand, Qingyuan is a nice place and easily accessible. Property prices are something like 2,000 RMb per m2 for better units.

[chilton747]

One little known city that I thought was very nice in Guangdong is Zhaoqing. It's on the main tollway west of Guangzhou about an hour or two. It has a big park with the same kind of karst topography that is around Yangshuo and it's on a major river also. Seemed clean, it is also on the rail line into GZ. Sorry I know nothing about houses there.

 

I would stay away from not only Zhaoqing, but also a nearby city called Lianzhou. The problem is transportation. Rail service is limited and the so-called highways that link these cities with the rest of Guangdong province are garbage. They all look like they have been repeatedly bombed by B-52s and there are no real plans to repair them. A normally 45 minute drive from, say, Qingyuan to either Zhaoqing or Lianzhou will take upwards of 3 hours and virtually destroy your kidneys no matter how much foam padding you are sitting on.

 

On the other hand, Qingyuan is a nice place and easily accessible. Property prices are something like 2,000 RMb per m2 for better units.

 

I just spoke with my wife about Qingyuan. She likes this city very much. One of her requirements is good transportation and from what I can see it is really good like you say. We will go there definitely!!! It looks like Qingyuan is only approx 28 km from the GZ airport. Thanks for the good tip my friend. Hopefully you will have time and we can say hello and thanks to you in person.

[rogerluli]

One little known city that I thought was very nice in Guangdong is Zhaoqing. It's on the main tollway west of Guangzhou about an hour or two. It has a big park with the same kind of karst topography that is around Yangshuo and it's on a major river also. Seemed clean, it is also on the rail line into GZ. Sorry I know nothing about houses there.

 

I would stay away from not only Zhaoqing, but also a nearby city called Lianzhou. The problem is transportation. Rail service is limited and the so-called highways that link these cities with the rest of Guangdong province are garbage. They all look like they have been repeatedly bombed by B-52s and there are no real plans to repair them. A normally 45 minute drive from, say, Qingyuan to either Zhaoqing or Lianzhou will take upwards of 3 hours and virtually destroy your kidneys no matter how much foam padding you are sitting on.

 

On the other hand, Qingyuan is a nice place and easily accessible. Property prices are something like 2,000 RMb per m2 for better units.

 

I just spoke with my wife about Qingyuan. She likes this city very much. One of her requirements is good transportation and from what I can see it is really good like you say. We will go there definitely!!! It looks like Qingyuan is only approx 28 km from the GZ airport. Thanks for the good tip my friend. Hopefully you will have time and we can say hello and thanks to you in person.

 

I'm sure someone's SO was from Qingyuan...might have been mercator but he doesn't seem to be around anymore...

 

What about Doumen??? Right next to Zhuhai...I think it will be on the high-speed urban rail line connecting into GZ...easy access to Macao for you gamblers...I know it's cheap compared to Zhuhai...

[chilton747]

One little known city that I thought was very nice in Guangdong is Zhaoqing. It's on the main tollway west of Guangzhou about an hour or two. It has a big park with the same kind of karst topography that is around Yangshuo and it's on a major river also. Seemed clean, it is also on the rail line into GZ. Sorry I know nothing about houses there.

 

I would stay away from not only Zhaoqing, but also a nearby city called Lianzhou. The problem is transportation. Rail service is limited and the so-called highways that link these cities with the rest of Guangdong province are garbage. They all look like they have been repeatedly bombed by B-52s and there are no real plans to repair them. A normally 45 minute drive from, say, Qingyuan to either Zhaoqing or Lianzhou will take upwards of 3 hours and virtually destroy your kidneys no matter how much foam padding you are sitting on.

 

On the other hand, Qingyuan is a nice place and easily accessible. Property prices are something like 2,000 RMb per m2 for better units.

 

I just spoke with my wife about Qingyuan. She likes this city very much. One of her requirements is good transportation and from what I can see it is really good like you say. We will go there definitely!!! It looks like Qingyuan is only approx 28 km from the GZ airport. Thanks for the good tip my friend. Hopefully you will have time and we can say hello and thanks to you in person.

 

I'm sure someone's SO was from Qingyuan...might have been mercator but he doesn't seem to be around anymore...

 

What about Doumen??? Right next to Zhuhai...I think it will be on the high-speed urban rail line connecting into GZ...easy access to Macao for you gamblers...I know it's cheap compared to Zhuhai...

 

You guys are gonna keep me very busy when I come to china the end of this month Keep 'em coming guys And thank y'all sooooooooo much

[chilton747]

Looks like I might have a break here. Century21 has offices in China with one of them being in GZ. I have spoken with a rep here and she has Qingyuan and Zhongshan in their system. She is working on patching me through to an agent in GZ that speaks english.