purchasing a home in China

[rogerluli]

Hi,

 

We are proceeding with the purchase of the apartment in Jilin province. We are waiting for the owner to pay off a mortgage taken by his wife before she died. My question is, does the fact that this property was mortgaged by a bank for a loan imply that there is indeed a true and clear title?

 

-James

 

Well it certainly would in the US with title searches, etc. But in China??? I'll guess maybe yes, maybe no... Hope that helps James...

[chilton747]

GZBILL has stated that the only way to be certain you get a true and clear title is by using a bank to do a mortgage so I would think that indeed the title the current owner is good. But if you are not getting a mortgage then I wonder if the current title would be transferred accurately to you.

[GZBILL]

Hi,

 

We are proceeding with the purchase of the apartment in Jilin province. We are waiting for the owner to pay off a mortgage taken by his wife before she died. My question is, does the fact that this property was mortgaged by a bank for a loan imply that there is indeed a true and clear title?

 

-James

 

It would appear so, but you'd need to be sure that a) whatever mortgage documentation provided isn't fake and that you can actually verify everything. Maybe the person obtained a loan from the bank, but it wasn't a mortgage.

 

When a bank releases a mortgage there are two different ways this may be noticed. One way is if the lien was entered into the actual property deed book. If so, the bank will enter a notation and place their seal on it right inside the deed itself. The second way is if the bank never entered the lien into the deed, but kept the deed itself as security. Then when they release the lien they will return the deed to the owner.

 

The surest approach is to see the property has the red or green B5 book, verify it isn't fake and obtain your own mortgage. You don't have to get a mortgage for the entire purchase price. 10% is fine.

[GZBILL]

GZBILL has stated that the only way to be certain you get a true and clear title is by using a bank to do a mortgage so I would think that indeed the title the current owner is good. But if you are not getting a mortgage then I wonder if the current title would be transferred accurately to you.

 

Assuming there is true and clear title to begin with, the bank will use one of two ways to show there is a lien on the property -- aside from actually registering their lien in the appropriate government office.

 

Some banks simply keep the title / deed (the B5-sized green or red book) in their possession until you have paid off the mortgage. Once you pay off the mortgage, they give the book back to you along with separate documentation that the mortgage has been paid off.

 

Other banks record the lien in their favor inside the actual title book. If you look at the title images posted on this forum, you'll see such an example. Once the mortgage has been completely paid off, the bank will make an annotation in the title book and place their seal on it. Of course, the bank will also give you separate documentation and also notify the appropriate government office where the lien has been recorded.

[chilton747]

I will be visiting China soon. My wife has spoken with a builder's rep and they are wanting a 10000RMB deposit if we like what we see. Sounds reasonable to me given the info I have received at this point. She is going ahead of me to look at the house. Hopefully when I get to China I can close the deal. Any last minute advice?

[GZBILL]

I will be visiting China soon. My wife has spoken with a builder's rep and they are wanting a 10000RMB deposit if we like what we see. Sounds reasonable to me given the info I have received at this point. She is going ahead of me to look at the house. Hopefully when I get to China I can close the deal. Any last minute advice?

 

The 10k is just a deposit. Within a certain period of time, you'll have to give them the total amount which is up to 30% of the purchase price plus gas / water / electricity / intercom / ad nauseum connection fees.

 

READ THE PURCHASE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY!

 

Make sure if the mortgage falls through the money you paid is totally refundable. Deposits are generally non-refundable unless you can prove that the bank(s) refused your mortgage application.

[rogerluli]

I will be visiting China soon. My wife has spoken with a builder's rep and they are wanting a 10000RMB deposit if we like what we see. Sounds reasonable to me given the info I have received at this point. She is going ahead of me to look at the house. Hopefully when I get to China I can close the deal. Any last minute advice?

 

The 10k is just a deposit. Within a certain period of time, you'll have to give them the total amount which is up to 30% of the purchase price plus gas / water / electricity / intercom / ad nauseum connection fees.

 

READ THE PURCHASE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY!

 

Make sure if the mortgage falls through the money you paid is totally refundable. Deposits are generally non-refundable unless you can prove that the bank(s) refused your mortgage application.

 

When we bought our house on Hainan it had not even been started yet. The first 6 buildings were almost finished, the next 4 were partly done and we bought in building #13 which was "out there in the field"... The deposit was to have been 50,000 RMB. No problemo... or so I thought, we had a tidy sum in the BOC. The problem arose when we went to the local Qionghai branch of the BOC and were informed that although they could see that the money was in the account we had no access to it with the debit card we had because no funds had been transfered from the account to the card... Evidently in China you have to go through this extra step before you have funds on your debit card... Anywho to make a long story short we were able to come up with 20,000 RMB in cash and they accepted that because of the circumstances.

[chilton747]

I will be visiting China soon. My wife has spoken with a builder's rep and they are wanting a 10000RMB deposit if we like what we see. Sounds reasonable to me given the info I have received at this point. She is going ahead of me to look at the house. Hopefully when I get to China I can close the deal. Any last minute advice?

 

The 10k is just a deposit. Within a certain period of time, you'll have to give them the total amount which is up to 30% of the purchase price plus gas / water / electricity / intercom / ad nauseum connection fees.

 

READ THE PURCHASE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY!

 

Make sure if the mortgage falls through the money you paid is totally refundable. Deposits are generally non-refundable unless you can prove that the bank(s) refused your mortgage application.

 

When we bought our house on Hainan it had not even been started yet. The first 6 buildings were almost finished, the next 4 were partly done and we bought in building #13 which was "out there in the field"... The deposit was to have been 50,000 RMB. No problemo... or so I thought, we had a tidy sum in the BOC. The problem arose when we went to the local Qionghai branch of the BOC and were informed that although they could see that the money was in the account we had no access to it with the debit card we had because no funds had been transfered from the account to the card... Evidently in China you have to go through this extra step before you have funds on your debit card... Anywho to make a long story short we were able to come up with 20,000 RMB in cash and they accepted that because of the circumstances.

 

Thanks guys for the experience and opinions. I think I made a mistake. The 10000RMB apparently is not a deposit. The builder told my wife that if she comes to look at the place and if she likes it then the builder will discount the price by 10000 RMB. My wife will be on her way shortly to check it out. It is an 18 hour train ride for her with no seat and no bed I tried to get her to fly but she said "no way." She says this is a busy time of year for the rail system and she could only get a ticket without a seat designation. I told her that 10000RMB was not worth her discomfort. Of course she did not side with my feelings. How do they do this??????????????

[rogerluli]

I will be visiting China soon. My wife has spoken with a builder's rep and they are wanting a 10000RMB deposit if we like what we see. Sounds reasonable to me given the info I have received at this point. She is going ahead of me to look at the house. Hopefully when I get to China I can close the deal. Any last minute advice?

 

The 10k is just a deposit. Within a certain period of time, you'll have to give them the total amount which is up to 30% of the purchase price plus gas / water / electricity / intercom / ad nauseum connection fees.

 

READ THE PURCHASE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY!

 

Make sure if the mortgage falls through the money you paid is totally refundable. Deposits are generally non-refundable unless you can prove that the bank(s) refused your mortgage application.

 

When we bought our house on Hainan it had not even been started yet. The first 6 buildings were almost finished, the next 4 were partly done and we bought in building #13 which was "out there in the field"... The deposit was to have been 50,000 RMB. No problemo... or so I thought, we had a tidy sum in the BOC. The problem arose when we went to the local Qionghai branch of the BOC and were informed that although they could see that the money was in the account we had no access to it with the debit card we had because no funds had been transfered from the account to the card... Evidently in China you have to go through this extra step before you have funds on your debit card... Anywho to make a long story short we were able to come up with 20,000 RMB in cash and they accepted that because of the circumstances.

 

Thanks guys for the experience and opinions. I think I made a mistake. The 10000RMB apparently is not a deposit. The builder told my wife that if she comes to look at the place and if she likes it then the builder will discount the price by 10000 RMB. My wife will be on her way shortly to check it out. It is an 18 hour train ride for her with no seat and no bed I tried to get her to fly but she said "no way." She says this is a busy time of year for the rail system and she could only get a ticket without a seat designation. I told her that 10000RMB was not worth her discomfort. Of course she did not side with my feelings. How do they do this??????????????

 

I did think that 10,000 RMB would have been a very small deposit. As a discount who can say? Our experience was that only a fairly small "face-saving" dicount was available for the two houses we bought. As for our wives sacrificing their comfort to save money...there seems to be no practical limit...

[chilton747]

I will be visiting China soon. My wife has spoken with a builder's rep and they are wanting a 10000RMB deposit if we like what we see. Sounds reasonable to me given the info I have received at this point. She is going ahead of me to look at the house. Hopefully when I get to China I can close the deal. Any last minute advice?

 

The 10k is just a deposit. Within a certain period of time, you'll have to give them the total amount which is up to 30% of the purchase price plus gas / water / electricity / intercom / ad nauseum connection fees.

 

READ THE PURCHASE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY!

 

Make sure if the mortgage falls through the money you paid is totally refundable. Deposits are generally non-refundable unless you can prove that the bank(s) refused your mortgage application.

 

When we bought our house on Hainan it had not even been started yet. The first 6 buildings were almost finished, the next 4 were partly done and we bought in building #13 which was "out there in the field"... The deposit was to have been 50,000 RMB. No problemo... or so I thought, we had a tidy sum in the BOC. The problem arose when we went to the local Qionghai branch of the BOC and were informed that although they could see that the money was in the account we had no access to it with the debit card we had because no funds had been transfered from the account to the card... Evidently in China you have to go through this extra step before you have funds on your debit card... Anywho to make a long story short we were able to come up with 20,000 RMB in cash and they accepted that because of the circumstances.

 

Thanks guys for the experience and opinions. I think I made a mistake. The 10000RMB apparently is not a deposit. The builder told my wife that if she comes to look at the place and if she likes it then the builder will discount the price by 10000 RMB. My wife will be on her way shortly to check it out. It is an 18 hour train ride for her with no seat and no bed I tried to get her to fly but she said "no way." She says this is a busy time of year for the rail system and she could only get a ticket without a seat designation. I told her that 10000RMB was not worth her discomfort. Of course she did not side with my feelings. How do they do this??????????????

 

I did think that 10,000 RMB would have been a very small deposit. As a discount who can say? Our experience was that only a fairly small "face-saving" dicount was available for the two houses we bought. As for our wives sacrificing their comfort to save money...there seems to be no practical limit...

 

I tell you Roger I am blown away by this sacrifice. I just hope I am able to keep up with her

[rogerluli]

I will be visiting China soon. My wife has spoken with a builder's rep and they are wanting a 10000RMB deposit if we like what we see. Sounds reasonable to me given the info I have received at this point. She is going ahead of me to look at the house. Hopefully when I get to China I can close the deal. Any last minute advice?

 

The 10k is just a deposit. Within a certain period of time, you'll have to give them the total amount which is up to 30% of the purchase price plus gas / water / electricity / intercom / ad nauseum connection fees.

 

READ THE PURCHASE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY!

 

Make sure if the mortgage falls through the money you paid is totally refundable. Deposits are generally non-refundable unless you can prove that the bank(s) refused your mortgage application.

 

When we bought our house on Hainan it had not even been started yet. The first 6 buildings were almost finished, the next 4 were partly done and we bought in building #13 which was "out there in the field"... The deposit was to have been 50,000 RMB. No problemo... or so I thought, we had a tidy sum in the BOC. The problem arose when we went to the local Qionghai branch of the BOC and were informed that although they could see that the money was in the account we had no access to it with the debit card we had because no funds had been transfered from the account to the card... Evidently in China you have to go through this extra step before you have funds on your debit card... Anywho to make a long story short we were able to come up with 20,000 RMB in cash and they accepted that because of the circumstances.

 

Thanks guys for the experience and opinions. I think I made a mistake. The 10000RMB apparently is not a deposit. The builder told my wife that if she comes to look at the place and if she likes it then the builder will discount the price by 10000 RMB. My wife will be on her way shortly to check it out. It is an 18 hour train ride for her with no seat and no bed I tried to get her to fly but she said "no way." She says this is a busy time of year for the rail system and she could only get a ticket without a seat designation. I told her that 10000RMB was not worth her discomfort. Of course she did not side with my feelings. How do they do this??????????????

 

I did think that 10,000 RMB would have been a very small deposit. As a discount who can say? Our experience was that only a fairly small "face-saving" dicount was available for the two houses we bought. As for our wives sacrificing their comfort to save money...there seems to be no practical limit...

 

I tell you Roger I am blown away by this sacrifice. I just hope I am able to keep up with her

 

You can't...

[GZBILL]

I will be visiting China soon. My wife has spoken with a builder's rep and they are wanting a 10000RMB deposit if we like what we see. Sounds reasonable to me given the info I have received at this point. She is going ahead of me to look at the house. Hopefully when I get to China I can close the deal. Any last minute advice?

 

The 10k is just a deposit. Within a certain period of time, you'll have to give them the total amount which is up to 30% of the purchase price plus gas / water / electricity / intercom / ad nauseum connection fees.

 

READ THE PURCHASE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY!

 

Make sure if the mortgage falls through the money you paid is totally refundable. Deposits are generally non-refundable unless you can prove that the bank(s) refused your mortgage application.

 

The problem arose when we went to the local Qionghai branch of the BOC and were informed that although they could see that the money was in the account we had no access to it with the debit card we had because no funds had been transfered from the account to the card... Evidently in China you have to go through this extra step before you have funds on your debit card...

 

Doesn't happen like that now unless you are dealing with an account opened in a city different from that where you want to withdraw the money.

[chilton747]

I will be visiting China soon. My wife has spoken with a builder's rep and they are wanting a 10000RMB deposit if we like what we see. Sounds reasonable to me given the info I have received at this point. She is going ahead of me to look at the house. Hopefully when I get to China I can close the deal. Any last minute advice?

 

The 10k is just a deposit. Within a certain period of time, you'll have to give them the total amount which is up to 30% of the purchase price plus gas / water / electricity / intercom / ad nauseum connection fees.

 

READ THE PURCHASE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY!

 

Make sure if the mortgage falls through the money you paid is totally refundable. Deposits are generally non-refundable unless you can prove that the bank(s) refused your mortgage application.

 

The problem arose when we went to the local Qionghai branch of the BOC and were informed that although they could see that the money was in the account we had no access to it with the debit card we had because no funds had been transfered from the account to the card... Evidently in China you have to go through this extra step before you have funds on your debit card...

 

Doesn't happen like that now unless you are dealing with an account opened in a city different from that where you want to withdraw the money.

 

Bill I am glad you brought that up. My wife has an account at the ICBC in Shenzhen and Jiujiang. The house we want to buy is located in Zhongshan. Would it be a pain to have the funds wired from the US to the Shenzhen branch or would it be best to use a Zhongshan branch, assuming that they have one there. Isn't Shenzhen close enough??

[rogerluli]

I will be visiting China soon. My wife has spoken with a builder's rep and they are wanting a 10000RMB deposit if we like what we see. Sounds reasonable to me given the info I have received at this point. She is going ahead of me to look at the house. Hopefully when I get to China I can close the deal. Any last minute advice?

 

The 10k is just a deposit. Within a certain period of time, you'll have to give them the total amount which is up to 30% of the purchase price plus gas / water / electricity / intercom / ad nauseum connection fees.

 

READ THE PURCHASE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY!

 

Make sure if the mortgage falls through the money you paid is totally refundable. Deposits are generally non-refundable unless you can prove that the bank(s) refused your mortgage application.

 

The problem arose when we went to the local Qionghai branch of the BOC and were informed that although they could see that the money was in the account we had no access to it with the debit card we had because no funds had been transfered from the account to the card... Evidently in China you have to go through this extra step before you have funds on your debit card...

 

Doesn't happen like that now unless you are dealing with an account opened in a city different from that where you want to withdraw the money.

 

That was the case. The funds had been deposited in my wife's account in Hunan and her father there still had the bank book. If we had had the book and the card together we could have withdrawn funds at any BOC branch...

[GZBILL]

I will be visiting China soon. My wife has spoken with a builder's rep and they are wanting a 10000RMB deposit if we like what we see. Sounds reasonable to me given the info I have received at this point. She is going ahead of me to look at the house. Hopefully when I get to China I can close the deal. Any last minute advice?

 

The 10k is just a deposit. Within a certain period of time, you'll have to give them the total amount which is up to 30% of the purchase price plus gas / water / electricity / intercom / ad nauseum connection fees.

 

READ THE PURCHASE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY!

 

Make sure if the mortgage falls through the money you paid is totally refundable. Deposits are generally non-refundable unless you can prove that the bank(s) refused your mortgage application.

 

The problem arose when we went to the local Qionghai branch of the BOC and were informed that although they could see that the money was in the account we had no access to it with the debit card we had because no funds had been transfered from the account to the card... Evidently in China you have to go through this extra step before you have funds on your debit card...

 

Doesn't happen like that now unless you are dealing with an account opened in a city different from that where you want to withdraw the money.

 

Bill I am glad you brought that up. My wife has an account at the ICBC in Shenzhen and Jiujiang. The house we want to buy is located in Zhongshan. Would it be a pain to have the funds wired from the US to the Shenzhen branch or would it be best to use a Zhongshan branch, assuming that they have one there. Isn't Shenzhen close enough??

 

You won't have any problems as long as your wife has BOTH the bank book and her corresponding ATM card. Actually, she can use the ATM card anywhere in China and get up to 30k per day.