Retiring in China...Why?

[rogerluli]

The communism in China thread brought out a little of this so if some is good, more is better...

 

For me the decision to retire in China is largely financial.

 

I had always hoped to be able to afford 2 homes when I retired and move with the seasons. In the US it would just be impossible to have 2 nice places in choice areas with my retirement income. In China it is very affordable. Even after finishing and furnishing costs for our two apartments in China the cost will still be well under what one comparably sized condo would cost in the US.

Property taxes are currently ZERO in China and even though that may change with larger houses some day I am certain it will be far less than real estate taxes in the US.

Services are very cheap in China compared to the US. The cost of food in both markets and restaurants is MUCH lower in China. Condo fees are much lower. Getting your hair styled/cut, getting your shoes shined, getting a massage, getting your car washed...you name it and the cost in China is far less than here. Laopo's Yuxi, Yunnan friend has her large (200 sq m) house cleaned every week. The cost for a full day of cleaning, laundry, etc. is $5.

 

Laopo is well aware of the financial advantage but her main interest is...FOOD... She loves Chinese food and the availabilty of very fresh and inexpensive food in markets and restaurants is the biggest draw for her. Also her son is in China and other family members and many friends throughout China make it attractive to be there rather than here.

 

We both plan to travel extensively both within China and SE Asia and costs for train travel, hotels, tours, food, etc. are very low compared to US travel.

 

My reasons here are kind of the nuts and bolts kinds of explanations. I have others of course that would be more in the cultural/philosophical realm of thought. For those contemplating this move...

Whada you think???

[crs]

The only problem is that the medical bill can be very high too in China without health insurance

[Randy W]

The only problem is that the medical bill can be very high too in China without health insurance

 

 

It can also be less than what you would pay for a copayment here in the states. I paid about $11 combined for a doctor visit and drugs (antibiotics) last time I was there.

[rogerluli]

The only problem is that the medical bill can be very high too in China without health insurance

 

Currently my employer pays $1385/mo for our health insurance. At my age of 65 it would be $855 for me to continue that full coverage even though I would be on Medicare. I think for that I could purchase very good health insurance in China. If that is not an option I would buy a high deductible plan to cover my wife in the US and then return here for any major medical issues. I also will receive a medical account from my employer of about half a years wages when I retire to use anywhere, anyhow I wish.

[Stone]

What if the dollar drops to $1 = 5 yuans or even less some time after you retire? With inflation built up in China, your dollar does not go that further.

 

I have the fear that if foreign central banks are selling U.S. treasury notes in large quantities, it will cause collapse of U.S assets including the stock market.

[rogerluli]

What if the dollar drops to $1 = 5 yuans or even less some time after you retire? With inflation built up in China, your dollar does not go that further.

 

I have the fear that if foreign central banks are selling U.S. treasury notes in large quantities, it will cause collapse of U.S assets including the stock market.

 

I do not think the dollar will continue to fall against the Yuan forever but I still think my retirement income would be fine at even 3-1.

 

If the world goes to hell in a handbasket, if the worldwide value of stocks goes to ZERO... are we ALL in trouble??? Yes...Would living in the US protect you from a worlwide cataclysmic fall in asset values??? I don't think so...Would you still expect to collect full retirement benefits from our own bankrupt government??? Of course...All the $$$$ we've all put into Social Security would be there in the vault waiting for us...LOL

Edited March 15, 2007 by rogerluli (see edit history)

[SinoTexas]

Good thoughts Roger and I do respect your views on this. You stated that your decision is primarily financial and that is certainly a valid reason to move there. If the Yuan and dollar were at par, in other words one to one, would you still go? If what you buy in Yuan would cost you equally in US dollars, would you still move to China?

 

As I have said, I teach a few university classes in China and here in Texas dealing with heritage tourism. It deals with the development of tourism opportunities in rural areas in attempts to bring some " green" economic development. On occasion, the topic turns to the impact of foreigners moving to a Chinese community. In some cases it comes to the moral issue of exploitation of the cheap Chinese labor force by foreigners. In this case, several of my Chinese students have said the main reason foreigners come to live in China is because they take advantage of the Chinese people. The foreigners can afford to buy nice places to live because it was built by cheap labor and the vast majority of Chinese would never be able to afford such a place. The overall cheap cost of living in China, by a foreigner, is built on the backs of poorly paid people who themselves, could not afford most of the things and services a foreigner has to maintain a standard of living as they had in their previous country. None of my students have ever seen a foreigner living for any length of time, like most of the Chinese population does. Many can only afford a couple of rooms, with few luxuries to live in, much less multiple homes.

 

Over course this nothing new. Corporations from all around the world do this until the costs to them becomes too expensive and they move on elsewhere.

 

There are many other factors to consider in moving including the environmental and social issues that are changing. But those are topics for another class and another time.

 

None of this is new for those of us that have spent anytime in China and especially for those married to Chinese spouses.

 

Just my thoughts, as well as those expressed by my students, on the subject. Good luck.

 

As aye,

 

Jim

[ameriken]

I can certainly ditto the financial reasons, but our desire to retire in China are more than financial. I love China....the culture, the people, the language, and more. We just returned from Shanghai, and I commented to my wife that the more I visit, the more comfortable I feel there. Obviously, that can change because visiting and living are two different things....but at least I dont feel uncomfortable.

 

If I have any concerns about moving there, perhaps it is health care. It is far from the best care. However, it is not enough to stop me and I do believe that medical care will improve in China.

 

Another reason to move there is Lao Po. It is her home. One of us has to sacrifice living in their home country. She has made the sacrifice and is willing to stay here, if that is what we need to do. However, there is no reason why I cannot do the same. She too has family and friends, and of course she misses them. As Roger stated, she also misses the food. So, those are factors too.

 

We are likely to have a child, which brings up other issues, such as, what kind education, what kind of culture/morals/influences to raise him/her in, etc. I am not impressed with our public school system. I dont feel it is producing like it should, and I feel it is riddled with too many negative influences.

 

So financial is a reason, and a big one, but is not the only reason. All in all, we are both willing to stay here in America if need be, but our goal is to move back to China in the next 8 years.

[markndannie]

Dannie and I will be retiring to China in a few years. We both love and miss China. It is partly financially driven but also it is the food, people, culture and the country. We have not decided quite yet which city but we do know it will be on the ocean. Maybe Yan Tai or Qingdao. I agree with earlier posts about the food. Dannie hates the food here in the US, we seldom go out to eat, instead we cook at home. I think it is very important to select a city that has other Lao Wei and the creature comforts of some western conveniencies (sat tv with western channels, cheese and sour bread and english conversation).

With the price of housing here and the cost of living it is difficult to live the "good life" here on a small retirement. Why are so many americans becoming expats in mexico or costa rica or panama? We live in an over 55 apartment complex and see many senior citizens living a basic existence. I want to live the good life before I retire to a wheel chair!

I really liked Dailian but it does get cold there. Medical is a very big consideration, but I have found that the cost and quality for day to day health problems is very good, the cost of medicine is low and we are lucky to have several doctors and a surgeon in the family. I think if it comes time for something major then a trip back will be required. As it goes we will spend 4 months every two years in the states and that cost will be about what the cost of living in China for 20 months is. There is no way that I could afford all of the services (foot massage, body massage, shampoo and maid etc) and travel here in the US on my retirement income. For you young families here start saving now for those golden years.

mark

[DMikeS4321]

The only problem is that the medical bill can be very high too in China without health insurance

 

Currently my employer pays $1385/mo for our health insurance. At my age of 65 it would be $855 for me to continue that full coverage even though I would be on Medicare. I think for that I could purchase very good health insurance in China. If that is not an option I would buy a high deductible plan to cover my wife in the US and then return here for any major medical issues. I also will receive a medical account from my employer of about half a years wages when I retire to use anywhere, anyhow I wish.

 

Roger,

 

$855 per month? You are getting screwed... My 82 year old mother pays $252 per month for a Mutual of Omaha Medicare Supplement Insurance plan that she picked up when she was 78. She's had carpal tunnel surgery, a hip replacement surgery and surgery to remove her gall bladder for a total cost of $0. I guess some of her meds aren't covered, but she had the sense to opt out of the MediCare presecription drug plan.

 

That said, I agree 110% with your retirement strategy. My only concern would be having enough saved so I could return to the U.S. for disability/death. Lao Po will live either place so it's up to me. I'll go first, God willing. I just can't see dying anywhere but in the U.S.

 

Best Regards

[A Mafan]

All good thoughts.

 

I'd like to add a few points:

 

People talked about the exchange rate changing, people mentioned inflation. Someone mentioned there may be property taxes in the future.

 

...to tell the truth, the Chinese legislature is debating allowing people to actually own their homes for the first time in PRC history. Yep, even though people say they "purchased" a home in China, the govt can take it away at any time. Of course, that's kind of the case in the US, too, with that recent case in Connecticut, but that's off-topic.

 

No one knows what the future will bring. As China's economy continues to grow, what will it be like to live in China? Even just 10 years brings huge changes to cost of living and expenses. No one had computers or cars in China just 10 years ago. Telephones were just starting to become possible for in the home, but most people still used the phone down the block at the phone stand. This was in Beijing, their capital. Just 5 years before that, around 1992, there wasn't a single building in Beijing taller than 5 stories.

 

Nothing is ever easy, and if you aren't pushing forward, you're falling behind.

 

These aren't reasons to not move to or retire in China, but they should be considered. We plan to move to China after I retire, too. She came here only because I can support her here better than we could have earned with two of us there. Plus, I'll have a great retirement at a very early age, and can still work in China if necessary or advisable.

 

But the wild card is: will China let you live there? Most of the people who live there long-term are working, and providing something to society that the government values.

 

Just saying: don't count chickens before they hatch. Have a backup plan. Never really retire, just find a hobby you can make some money with (like teaching English in China, or something). And be ready to change plans, if necessary.

 

Good luck.

[DMikeS4321]

I do not think the dollar will continue to fall against the Yuan forever but I still think my retirement income would be fine at even 3-1.

 

If the world goes to hell in a handbasket, if the worldwide value of stocks goes to ZERO... are we ALL in trouble??? Yes...Would living in the US protect you from a worlwide cataclysmic fall in asset values???

 

The only advantage to living in the States in this situation would be to have enough guns to go out in a "blaze of glory". The corrupt *&%$*@ who were responsible for this would be in a lot of trouble from many many unhappy USC's...

 

Best Regards

[AmericanRooster]

Currently my employer pays $1385/mo for our health insurance. At my age of 65 it would be $855 for me to continue that full coverage even though I would be on Medicare. I think for that I could purchase very good health insurance in China. If that is not an option I would buy a high deductible plan to cover my wife in the US and then return here for any major medical issues. I also will receive a medical account from my employer of about half a years wages when I retire to use anywhere, anyhow I wish.

Please let us know how medical insurance in China shakes out... I talked to my insurance agent about it a few months ago, and he left me with the impression that long-term individual medical insurance coverage in China was quite challenging... he said most insurance companies will only cover an individual for short periods of time (i.e. vacations)... he also said that he has seen cases where the USC had to be flown back to the US for treatment. If you have a group plan, this may be very different.

 

I'm young and have a lot of time to consider the options, but so far I'm not thrilled about being subject to the Chinese medical system... I have blood issues now, and who knows what by the time I'm retirement age.

Edited March 16, 2007 by AmericanRooster (see edit history)

[A Mafan]

Different people fit better in different places. My ex- never wanted to go back to China, but she didn't have many connections there. Yatou loves China, has a huge happy family there, and saw nothing in the US that made her want to come here except me. 8 months in Hawaii has done nothing to change her mind about that.

 

She loves the scenery and the warmth...but family is life to her.

[tywy_99]

Threads like this has always been intriguing, but so is China with all its beauty and mistique. I can see how one would want to settle in China but one also needs to understand the risk.

I'm not pro or con to the topic. I am more middle; caustiously middle.

To each his (or her) own.

 

Here's a cool website I came across; http://chinadigitaltimes.net/