Tax Return and filing a joint return

[Rick]

Hi to all CFL,

 

I just filed my 08 tax return with w-7 for my wife. My wife doesn't have a passport so I submitted her notarized birth certificate and notarized her China ID card along with w-7. Couple days ago I received a letter for IRS saying that we are missing some supporting documents. I haven't called IRS yet since they are off in the weekend, but I guess we have problems on our notarized documents. The letter states "foreign notaries are acceptable if they attach an Apostille to the notarized document as outlined by the Hague Convention." Have anyone been gone through this before so my wife could get an ITIN? Thank you very much

 

Ricky

[Randy W]

Hi to all CFL,

 

I just filed my 08 tax return with w-7 for my wife. My wife doesn't have a passport so I submitted her notarized birth certificate and notarized her China ID card along with w-7. Couple days ago I received a letter for IRS saying that we are missing some supporting documents. I haven't called IRS yet since they are off in the weekend, but I guess we have problems on our notarized documents. The letter states "foreign notaries are acceptable if they attach an Apostille to the notarized document as outlined by the Hague Convention." Have anyone been gone through this before so my wife could get an ITIN? Thank you very much

 

Ricky

 

I believe the problem is that she needs an American (non Chinese) notary - either at her consulate, or if she can send the documents to you in the US.

An Apostille is provided if the transaction involves a country that subscribes to the Hague Treaty.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Randy W (see edit history)

[samsong]

Hi to all CFL,

 

I just filed my 08 tax return with w-7 for my wife. My wife doesn't have a passport so I submitted her notarized birth certificate and notarized her China ID card along with w-7. Couple days ago I received a letter for IRS saying that we are missing some supporting documents. I haven't called IRS yet since they are off in the weekend, but I guess we have problems on our notarized documents. The letter states "foreign notaries are acceptable if they attach an Apostille to the notarized document as outlined by the Hague Convention." Have anyone been gone through this before so my wife could get an ITIN? Thank you very much

 

Ricky

Just for clarification, does her BC come from her local notarial office and is a 4- page document bounded in a white cover? This is the internationally accepted document used in transactions and conforms to the Hague Convention. The same with her ID. This is what's needed from her notarial office. Sorry I can't help you more.

BTW- have her get her passport.

 

Good Luck!

[Randy W]

Hi to all CFL,

 

I just filed my 08 tax return with w-7 for my wife. My wife doesn't have a passport so I submitted her notarized birth certificate and notarized her China ID card along with w-7. Couple days ago I received a letter for IRS saying that we are missing some supporting documents. I haven't called IRS yet since they are off in the weekend, but I guess we have problems on our notarized documents. The letter states "foreign notaries are acceptable if they attach an Apostille to the notarized document as outlined by the Hague Convention." Have anyone been gone through this before so my wife could get an ITIN? Thank you very much

 

Ricky

Just for clarification, does her BC come from her local notarial office and is a 4- page document bounded in a white cover? This is the internationally accepted document used in transactions and conforms to the Hague Convention. The same with her ID. This is what's needed from her notarial office. Sorry I can't help you more.

BTW- have her get her passport.

 

Good Luck!

 

 

For the visa, yes. For the IRS, see http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=268005

[samsong]

Hi to all CFL,

 

I just filed my 08 tax return with w-7 for my wife. My wife doesn't have a passport so I submitted her notarized birth certificate and notarized her China ID card along with w-7. Couple days ago I received a letter for IRS saying that we are missing some supporting documents. I haven't called IRS yet since they are off in the weekend, but I guess we have problems on our notarized documents. The letter states "foreign notaries are acceptable if they attach an Apostille to the notarized document as outlined by the Hague Convention." Have anyone been gone through this before so my wife could get an ITIN? Thank you very much

 

Ricky

Just for clarification, does her BC come from her local notarial office and is a 4- page document bounded in a white cover? This is the internationally accepted document used in transactions and conforms to the Hague Convention. The same with her ID. This is what's needed from her notarial office. Sorry I can't help you more.

BTW- have her get her passport.

 

Good Luck!

 

 

For the visa, yes. For the IRS, see http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=268005

For a passport- yes, which the poster said she hasn't one. The poster also said, The letter states "foreign notaries are acceptable if they attach an Apostille to the notarized document as outlined by the Hague Convention."

 

That's why I asked. What he submitted would've been accepted if it were to what the letter stated, the above statement. I'm curious to know. I'm curious to know what exactly was submitted. It has to conform to what the IRS said which a notarial office could prepare. The "white book" contains an apostille. That's what they want.

Of course, a passport would've been the easy, and best way to go.

[Randy W]

Hi to all CFL,

 

I just filed my 08 tax return with w-7 for my wife. My wife doesn't have a passport so I submitted her notarized birth certificate and notarized her China ID card along with w-7. Couple days ago I received a letter for IRS saying that we are missing some supporting documents. I haven't called IRS yet since they are off in the weekend, but I guess we have problems on our notarized documents. The letter states "foreign notaries are acceptable if they attach an Apostille to the notarized document as outlined by the Hague Convention." Have anyone been gone through this before so my wife could get an ITIN? Thank you very much

 

Ricky

Just for clarification, does her BC come from her local notarial office and is a 4- page document bounded in a white cover? This is the internationally accepted document used in transactions and conforms to the Hague Convention. The same with her ID. This is what's needed from her notarial office. Sorry I can't help you more.

BTW- have her get her passport.

 

Good Luck!

 

 

For the visa, yes. For the IRS, see http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=268005

For a passport- yes, which the poster said she hasn't one. The poster also said, The letter states "foreign notaries are acceptable if they attach an Apostille to the notarized document as outlined by the Hague Convention."

 

That's why I asked. What he submitted would've been accepted if it were to what the letter stated, the above statement. I'm curious to know. I'm curious to know what exactly was submitted. It has to conform to what the IRS said which a notarial office could prepare. The "white book" contains an apostille. That's what they want.

Of course, a passport would've been the easy, and best way to go.

 

China is not a party to the Hague Convention

 

http://www.apostille.biz/countries.asp

 

This has been discussed several times before

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=268005

[samsong]

Hi to all CFL,

 

I just filed my 08 tax return with w-7 for my wife. My wife doesn't have a passport so I submitted her notarized birth certificate and notarized her China ID card along with w-7. Couple days ago I received a letter for IRS saying that we are missing some supporting documents. I haven't called IRS yet since they are off in the weekend, but I guess we have problems on our notarized documents. The letter states "foreign notaries are acceptable if they attach an Apostille to the notarized document as outlined by the Hague Convention." Have anyone been gone through this before so my wife could get an ITIN? Thank you very much

 

Ricky

Just for clarification, does her BC come from her local notarial office and is a 4- page document bounded in a white cover? This is the internationally accepted document used in transactions and conforms to the Hague Convention. The same with her ID. This is what's needed from her notarial office. Sorry I can't help you more.

BTW- have her get her passport.

 

Good Luck!

 

 

For the visa, yes. For the IRS, see http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=268005

For a passport- yes, which the poster said she hasn't one. The poster also said, The letter states "foreign notaries are acceptable if they attach an Apostille to the notarized document as outlined by the Hague Convention."

 

That's why I asked. What he submitted would've been accepted if it were to what the letter stated, the above statement. I'm curious to know. I'm curious to know what exactly was submitted. It has to conform to what the IRS said which a notarial office could prepare. The "white book" contains an apostille. That's what they want.

Of course, a passport would've been the easy, and best way to go.

 

China is not a party to the Hague Convention

 

http://www.apostille.biz/countries.asp

 

This has been discussed several times before

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=268005

Well, let's don't rehash it up again. Peace!

[Rick]

Hi to all CFL,

 

I just filed my 08 tax return with w-7 for my wife. My wife doesn't have a passport so I submitted her notarized birth certificate and notarized her China ID card along with w-7. Couple days ago I received a letter for IRS saying that we are missing some supporting documents. I haven't called IRS yet since they are off in the weekend, but I guess we have problems on our notarized documents. The letter states "foreign notaries are acceptable if they attach an Apostille to the notarized document as outlined by the Hague Convention." Have anyone been gone through this before so my wife could get an ITIN? Thank you very much

 

Ricky

Just for clarification, does her BC come from her local notarial office and is a 4- page document bounded in a white cover? This is the internationally accepted document used in transactions and conforms to the Hague Convention. The same with her ID. This is what's needed from her notarial office. Sorry I can't help you more.

BTW- have her get her passport.

 

Good Luck!

 

 

For the visa, yes. For the IRS, see http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=268005

For a passport- yes, which the poster said she hasn't one. The poster also said, The letter states "foreign notaries are acceptable if they attach an Apostille to the notarized document as outlined by the Hague Convention."

 

That's why I asked. What he submitted would've been accepted if it were to what the letter stated, the above statement. I'm curious to know. I'm curious to know what exactly was submitted. It has to conform to what the IRS said which a notarial office could prepare. The "white book" contains an apostille. That's what they want.

Of course, a passport would've been the easy, and best way to go.

 

My wife's birth certificate (it's the white book) was obtained in the China notary and her ID card (also made to be the white book) was also notarized/certified copy in the China notary. Apparently, the irs would not accept those documents from China. Those documents were returned back to me...I am not sure if I could get those notarized (again) from US notary (but my wife is in China). So right now I don't really know what to do since she doesn't have a passport. Thank you

 

Ricky

[Randy W]

 

My wife's birth certificate (it's the white book) was obtained in the China notary and her ID card (also made to be the white book) was also notarized/certified copy in the China notary. Apparently, the irs would not accept those documents from China. Those documents were returned back to me...I am not sure if I could get those notarized (again) from US notary (but my wife is in China). So right now I don't really know what to do since she doesn't have a passport. Thank you

 

Ricky

 

 

As stated before, the ONLY options are to mail the documents to the US (so you can have a copy notarized),or for her to go to a Consulate in China

 

Otherwise, you will have to file (and pay interest on the difference) an amended return filing singly. You will then have three years to file another amended return with the needed notarization.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Randy W (see edit history)

[whome?]

 

My wife's birth certificate (it's the white book) was obtained in the China notary and her ID card (also made to be the white book) was also notarized/certified copy in the China notary. Apparently, the irs would not accept those documents from China. Those documents were returned back to me...I am not sure if I could get those notarized (again) from US notary (but my wife is in China). So right now I don't really know what to do since she doesn't have a passport. Thank you

 

Ricky

 

 

As stated before, the ONLY options are to mail the documents to the US (so you can have a copy notarized),or for her to go to a Consulate in China

 

Otherwise, you will have to file (and pay interest on the difference) an amended return filing singly. You will then have three years to file another amended return with the needed notarization.

 

You need to call the IRS and try to find out the reason for or tax to a tax lawyer familar with W7 and ITIN. The instructions on form W-7 state:

Have the copies notarized by a foreign notary. However, foreign

notaries are only acceptable as outlined by the Hague Convention.

The Hague Convention provides for the simplified certification of

public (including notarized) documents to be used in countries that

have joined the Convention. A certification will be issued in the form

of an "apostille," which will be attached to the copy of the

document. If the document originates in a country that is not party to

the Convention, applicants should have the document certified by

the foreign authority that issued it.Note. The apostille must stay attached to the copy of the document

when it is sent to the IRS.

 

If you sent them the original white booklet for the birth certificate and ID then you followed their requirement because the white booklet is the certification by the foreign authority with a certified english translation.

 

On a similar matter... when I looked up the W-7 I see the revision date is Mar 2009. Before I was using the FEb. 2008 date. The new one added the bolded statement above. Before they never told you what to do if the country was not part of this BS Hauge convention crap.

 

Also they added this:

 

Have the copies notarized by a U.S. notary public legally

authorized within his or her local jurisdiction to certify that the

document is a true copy of the original. To do this, the notary must

see the valid, unaltered original document and verify that the copy

conforms to the original. Consular offices at U.S. Embassies and

Consulates overseas may not certify true copies of foreign public

documents and will refer applicants to the foreign authority that

issued the document.

 

Holy Shit ... now I understand why GUZ would not just give me a notary copy of my wife's passport stating it was a true copy for IRS purposes. Beijing and Shanghai told me they would do it and did not know why GUZ didn't. So I got my wife's while in Beijing. I guess now I can expect to get the same letter back from IRS rejecting my W-7 form.

 

It would have been nice to GUZ to tell me the reason why they did not do it when I asked them why Beijing would and they would not. Of course I asked the IRS officer in Beijing the same question and he said he did not know nor did he tell me of this new requirement.

 

So if I bring a copy of my wife's passport to a US notary I can get it certified as true copy for the IRS but if I bring it to an overseas US embassy I cannot. What the hell sense does this make??????????

[Randy W]

 

Also they added this:

 

Have the copies notarized by a U.S. notary public legally

authorized within his or her local jurisdiction to certify that the

document is a true copy of the original. To do this, the notary must

see the valid, unaltered original document and verify that the copy

conforms to the original. Consular offices at U.S. Embassies and

Consulates overseas may not certify true copies of foreign public

documents and will refer applicants to the foreign authority that

issued the document.

 

 

 

This requirement, if your interpretation is correct, would mean that the copies must be notarized in the US, since China is not a Hague Convention country.

 

However, Hong Kong and Macau are, depending on how difficult it is to get there and whether you can find a willing notary.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Randy W (see edit history)

[whome?]

 

Also they added this:

 

Have the copies notarized by a U.S. notary public legally

authorized within his or her local jurisdiction to certify that the

document is a true copy of the original. To do this, the notary must

see the valid, unaltered original document and verify that the copy

conforms to the original. Consular offices at U.S. Embassies and

Consulates overseas may not certify true copies of foreign public

documents and will refer applicants to the foreign authority that

issued the document.

 

 

 

This requirement, if your interpretation is correct, would mean that the copies must be notarized in the US, since China is not a Hague Convention country.

 

However, Hong Kong and Macau are, depending on how difficult it is to get there and whether you can find a willing notary.

 

Not my interpretation ... this is from the revised W-7 form. It means you can no longer get a US consulate office to notarize a true copy of a foreign passport regardless of the country. This is a change in the insturctuon and this March 2009 revision did not appear until May 2009.

[Randy W]

 

Not my interpretation ... this is from the revised W-7 form. It means you can no longer get a US consulate office to notarize a true copy of a foreign passport regardless of the country. This is a change in the insturctuon and this March 2009 revision did not appear until May 2009.

 

 

That's what it sounds like. The last report, however, was that Beijing and Shanghai were still doing this.

 

I'll wait for confirmation. Most countries on VJ would be Hague Convention countries, so it would not apply

 

This involves a policy change by the DOS to NOT notarize these copies. Is there a law that changed? Or what happened?

 

We'll know for sure soon enough. In the meantime, someone may want to try.

[whome?]

 

Not my interpretation ... this is from the revised W-7 form. It means you can no longer get a US consulate office to notarize a true copy of a foreign passport regardless of the country. This is a change in the insturctuon and this March 2009 revision did not appear until May 2009.

 

 

That's what it sounds like. The last report, however, was that Beijing and Shanghai were still doing this.

 

I'll wait for confirmation. Most countries on VJ would be Hague Convention countries, so it would not apply

 

This involves a policy change by the DOS to NOT notarize these copies. Is there a law that changed? Or what happened?

 

We'll know for sure soon enough. In the meantime, someone may want to try.

Sorry.. I was not clear enough in my other posts. I have tried this.

 

GUZ told me in MAR 09 they do not notary true copies anymore even for the IRS.

 

Beijing said they can do it. I got a notarized copy of my wife's passport in May 09 and sent in the W-7 form with revision date Feb. 2008 along with my taxes. The Beijing counsulate officer said nothing about this.

 

Tonight when looking at the W-7 form online in regards to this topic I found the form was dated Mar 09 and has the new wording.

 

I will find out if the IRS accepts or not. My real question is how can you get so different information from two embassy on a fundamental tax issue/policy ?

[samsong]

 

Also they added this:

 

Have the copies notarized by a U.S. notary public legally

authorized within his or her local jurisdiction to certify that the

document is a true copy of the original. To do this, the notary must

see the valid, unaltered original document and verify that the copy

conforms to the original. Consular offices at U.S. Embassies and

Consulates overseas may not certify true copies of foreign public

documents and will refer applicants to the foreign authority that

issued the document.

 

 

 

This requirement, if your interpretation is correct, would mean that the copies must be notarized in the US, since China is not a Hague Convention country.

 

However, Hong Kong and Macau are, depending on how difficult it is to get there and whether you can find a willing notary.

 

Not my interpretation ... this is from the revised W-7 form. It means you can no longer get a US consulate office to notarize a true copy of a foreign passport regardless of the country. This is a change in the insturctuon and this March 2009 revision did not appear until May 2009.

Notarization is not the same as Certification. Notarization consist of simply signing a document in presence of a notary public, an official who serves the people. Certification implies the confirmation of the document, by a notarial office, in being authentic in which an apostille is asforementioned attached.

 

China, although not a Hague member "in force", like Hong Kong and Macau- they soon will be and have already been following certain articles of the convention for years, such as using apostilles to verify legitmacy of documents.