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Tax Return and filing a joint return

1040 Taxes

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#1 hankster

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 10:31 AM

With tax time coming, I was wondering how to file for '06. We were married in Feb '06 and are currently awaiting interview for K-3/K-4.

In this situation, with no Visa and no SSN, what to do?



#2 dnoblett

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 10:39 AM

You file married jointly, you will need to get her an ITIN using form W-7 from IRS.

http://www.irs.gov/i...d=96287,00.html

#3 Randy W

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 10:58 AM

One of our members filed a return filing singly. Then when his wife got here, filed an amended return. I don't remember what his reasoning was for not filing for the ITN while she was still in China.

You can also postpone filing until she is here. You will need to calculate and pay your taxes (married) by April 15, and file an extension. You can do this twice, to get the filing (but not the paying) deadline extended until Sept 15. The form to use is 4868.

Edited by Randy W, 30 December 2006 - 11:25 AM.


#4 ameriken

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 11:28 AM

One of our members filed a return filing singly. Then when his wife got here, filed an amended return. I don't remember what his reasoning was for not filing for the ITN while she was still in China.

You can also postpone filing until she is here. You will need to calculate and pay your taxes (married) by April 15, and file an extension. You can do this twice, to get the filing (but not the paying) deadline extended until Sept 15. The form to use is 4868.

Agree with Randy, except I believe Sept 15 is the corporate deadline, and Oct 15 is for personal returns. I never file by April 15, I always extend.....I dont know if this is true or not, but I have heard that if you extend, you are less likely to be subject to random audits.

Edited by ameriken, 30 December 2006 - 11:29 AM.


#5 david_dawei

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 11:30 AM

This is in the Interview FAQ:

Q.3.12 Can I get my SOs passport notarized in china for tax purposes (IRS ITIN, W-7)?

A.3.12.1
I just returned from China and brought with me my wife's Chinese passport. I immediately had her passport notarized here in the U.S. and mailed it back by U.S. Express Mail.

If you want the American Consulate to notarize it, then I read somewhere that she has to go the American Consulate in China. I am not sure whether the Consulate would let her in without you being there. She can call the Consulate and ask the question herself.

A.3.12.2
The consulate cannot Notarize her Chinese document, I just asked when I was there. She has to go home, get a notarized copy from her local gov. Then return to the consulate with the copy. I was trying to accomplish the same thing. The US consulate sent me down to the 4th floor of the Guz building to the Chinese public affairs office. They told us the above information

A.3.12.3
When I first inquired with the IRS, they told me that copy of your SO's passport needs to be notarized by a US notary. They did tell me that you could send the original with the W-7 and they would send it back, but I did not want to chance it. Just take the original and copy to the notary so they can see the two are the same. When I sent my 1040, the W-7 for my wife and the copy of her passport, I had no trouble getting my refund.

A.3.12.4
I had to get my SO's passport notarized for tax purposes last year and we went to the US consulate. They instead said that there was no need to actually get it notarized - instead they wanted to see her original passport, then they made a copy of it and put a consulate stamp on the copies which said something along the lines of 'original seen and returned' - then it was signed by the consular officer. It was sufficient for us to do the W-7. I asked several times if it needed to be notarized and they kept stressing that the consular stamp was sufficient - it also didn't cost us anything.

A.3.12.5
I just completed this whole process in the end of February and have already received the refund. Fortunately I was in Taiwan for Chinese New Years and knew I was going to have to get copies of my wife's passport notarized/certified so I had it done at AIT in Taipei and I had our marriage certificate and MY passport certified here at a local bank. I shipped all of the forms to the IRS office and they processed them, sent me my wife's new taxpayer ID number and I got the refund a few days later. Very painless except for the $30 I had to pay AIT which is the US State Department for a notary fee.

A.
More info:

To W-7 or not to W-7
http://candleforlove...showtopic=15992

Filing W-7 ITIN for federal taxes, Notarized copy of passport?
http://candleforlove...showtopic=17231

#6 Guest:Duke_*

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 11:52 AM

One of our members filed a return filing singly. Then when his wife got here, filed an amended return. I don't remember what his reasoning was for not filing for the ITN while she was still in China.

You can also postpone filing until she is here. You will need to calculate and pay your taxes (married) by April 15, and file an extension. You can do this twice, to get the filing (but not the paying) deadline extended until Sept 15. The form to use is 4868.


I filed single and then waited until she got here to file an amended return. The ITIN applications for the K3 and K4 were sent with the amended return. Because our daughter was in the USA less than half the year, the IRS has denied her ITIN application and disallowed the exemption.

The reasoning was that I got my refund months earlier and I didn't want them to send me their passports from China. Too risky.

If I was expecting to pay instead of receive a refund, I would have filed an extension.

#7 LeeFisher3

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 01:55 PM

If you want to file jointly I would suggest completing the form W-7 and sending it to her. She would then need to make a photocopy of her passport biographic pages and take her passport, photocopy and Form W-7 to the consulate in Guangzhou to have the photocopy notarized.

You might need to send her a photocopy of your passport and a cover letter asking the consulate to provide the notarization required by the IRS.

As she lives in Shenzhen, it is not a big deal for her to travel there to get this done.

You could also email the consulate asking for them to provide you with the procedure for her admittance to complete the documentation required for filing your taxes.

#8 hankster

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 04:54 PM

You can also postpone filing until she is here. You will need to calculate and pay your taxes (married) by April 15, and file an extension. You can do this twice, to get the filing (but not the paying) deadline extended until Sept 15. The form to use is 4868.


I like this. ^

If she passes interview she could be here in March.


Thanks guys for the replies.

#9 LeeFisher3

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 05:01 PM


You can also postpone filing until she is here. You will need to calculate and pay your taxes (married) by April 15, and file an extension. You can do this twice, to get the filing (but not the paying) deadline extended until Sept 15. The form to use is 4868.


I like this. ^

If she passes interview she could be here in March.


Thanks guys for the replies.

You will still need to do the W7 for her to get an ITIN as she will not be able to get an SSN until she has either EAD or her green card.

With this being your first year filing jointly you will probably want to take a look at Publication 519 and seriously look at the option of first year election to gain the maximum benefit. Many tax preparers are not familiar with this option and the benefits can be great.

#10 NUWORLD

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 01:18 AM

This is in the Interview FAQ:

Q.3.12 Can I get my SOs passport notarized in china for tax purposes (IRS ITIN, W-7)?

A.3.12.1
I just returned from China and brought with me my wife's Chinese passport. I immediately had her passport notarized here in the U.S. and mailed it back by U.S. Express Mail.

If you want the American Consulate to notarize it, then I read somewhere that she has to go the American Consulate in China. I am not sure whether the Consulate would let her in without you being there. She can call the Consulate and ask the question herself.

A.3.12.2
The consulate cannot Notarize her Chinese document, I just asked when I was there. She has to go home, get a notarized copy from her local gov. Then return to the consulate with the copy. I was trying to accomplish the same thing. The US consulate sent me down to the 4th floor of the Guz building to the Chinese public affairs office. They told us the above information

A.3.12.3
When I first inquired with the IRS, they told me that copy of your SO's passport needs to be notarized by a US notary. They did tell me that you could send the original with the W-7 and they would send it back, but I did not want to chance it. Just take the original and copy to the notary so they can see the two are the same. When I sent my 1040, the W-7 for my wife and the copy of her passport, I had no trouble getting my refund.

A.3.12.4
I had to get my SO's passport notarized for tax purposes last year and we went to the US consulate. They instead said that there was no need to actually get it notarized - instead they wanted to see her original passport, then they made a copy of it and put a consulate stamp on the copies which said something along the lines of 'original seen and returned' - then it was signed by the consular officer. It was sufficient for us to do the W-7. I asked several times if it needed to be notarized and they kept stressing that the consular stamp was sufficient - it also didn't cost us anything.

A.3.12.5
I just completed this whole process in the end of February and have already received the refund. Fortunately I was in Taiwan for Chinese New Years and knew I was going to have to get copies of my wife's passport notarized/certified so I had it done at AIT in Taipei and I had our marriage certificate and MY passport certified here at a local bank. I shipped all of the forms to the IRS office and they processed them, sent me my wife's new taxpayer ID number and I got the refund a few days later. Very painless except for the $30 I had to pay AIT which is the US State Department for a notary fee.

A.
More info:

To W-7 or not to W-7
http://candleforlove...showtopic=15992

Filing W-7 ITIN for federal taxes, Notarized copy of passport?
http://candleforlove...showtopic=17231



What would happen if someone filed Married-Separate??

#11 Yuanyang

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 01:26 AM

You file married jointly, you will need to get her an ITIN using form W-7 from IRS.

http://www.irs.gov/i...d=96287,00.html

Yup. I did exactly that for last year's return.

#12 LeeFisher3

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 08:39 AM

It's tax time again and as usual the IRS has not updated Publication 519 Tax Guide for Aliens, but there appear to be no changes since the 2005 publication. This information can be located on page 9 and 10 of Pub 519, before you file please verify this with the 2006 version of Publication 519(when released) just in case they modify one of the requirements. Many accountants and tax preparers are not familiar with this option, be sure to make them aware of this information.
DISCLAIMER: It is your responsibility to verify this information or point this out to your tax preparer. This is only a suggestion based on the tax code.

This applies to almost everyone who was married in 2006 regardless of visa category and can give you a significant difference in your tax return(refund).

If you file making the first year choice you surrender all options to handle your spouse's foreign income in any other manner because you will be claiming to have their worldwide income treated as US income and you MUST file a joint return.
Now if your spouse was not working in China, say only studying English in preparation to come to the US she would obviously not have any income to declare. You could also carefully explain to your spouse about taxes and taxable income and have them tell you how much money they made in China, as they don't issue W-2's there. :P

It is important to remember that if you make the first year choice you will NOT be able to e-file. This is a small price to pay for the tax benefit.

In all cases, if your spouse does not have a SSN you will need to complete the paperwork for an ITIN using form W7 and this will need to be submitted along with your tax return.

For K-1
Dual Status Alien

This applies if your spouse arrived early in the year and by the time you file has been in the US for 183 days. They are a Dual Status Alien for tax purposes.

This requires that they be present in the United States for at least 31 days in a row in 2006 and that you meet the Substantial Presence Test for 2007. For someone arriving on December 1, 2006 this would be met on or about May 1, 2007.

Dual-Status Aliens - First-Year Choice
Statement required to make the first-year choice. You must attach a statement to Form 1040 to make the first-year choice. The statement must contain your name and address and specify the following.

• That you are making the first-year choice.
• That you were not a resident in 2005.
• That you are a resident under the substantial presence test in 2007.
• The number of days of presence in the United States during 2007.
• The date or dates of your 31-day period of presence and the period of continuous presence in the United States during 2006.
• The date or dates of absence from the United States during 2006 that you are treating as days of presence.

You cannot file Form 1040 or the statement until you meet the substantial presence test for 2006. If you have not met the test for 2007 as of April 16, 2007, you can request an extension of time for filing your 2006 Form 1040 until a reasonable period after you have met that test.

If you do not follow the procedures discussed here for making the first-year choice, you will be treated as a nonresident alien for all of 2006. However, this does not apply if you can show by clear and convincing evidence that you took reasonable actions to become aware of the filing procedures and significant steps to comply with the procedures.


For K-3 and CR-1
Spouse does not meet the Substantial Presence Test and you were married by December 31.
Does not require your spouse to be in the US.

Nonresident Spouse Treated as a Resident
If, at the end of your tax year, you are married and one spouse is a U.S. citizen or a resident alien and the other spouse is a nonresident alien, you can choose to treat the nonresident spouse as a U.S. resident.

If you make this choice, you and your spouse are treated for income tax purposes as residents for your entire tax year. Neither you nor your spouse can claim under any tax treaty not to be U.S. resident. You are both taxed on worldwide income. You must file a joint income tax return for the year you make the choice, but you and your spouse can file joint or separate returns in later years.

Attach a statement, signed by both spouses, to your joint return for the first tax year for which the choice applies. It should contain the following information.

• A declaration that one spouse was a nonresident alien and the other spouse a U.S. citizen or resident alien on the last day of your tax year, and that you choose to be treated as U.S. residents for the entire tax year.
• The name, address, and identification number of each spouse. (If one spouse died, include the name and address of the person making the choice for the deceased spouse.)


Thanks to RandyW for arguing the point, we get to have our cake and eat it too. :blink:

Edited by LeeFisher3, 21 December 2007 - 07:00 AM.


#13 Randy W

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 10:12 AM

What would happen if someone filed Married-Separate??



I actually did that one year. With income averaging, our tax bill worked out to be lower using the Married filing separately than jointly.

#14 chilton747

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 10:35 AM

Thanks Lee!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Once again you have explained things that I can understand.........

#15 hankster

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 10:39 AM


You can also postpone filing until she is here. You will need to calculate and pay your taxes (married) by April 15, and file an extension. You can do this twice, to get the filing (but not the paying) deadline extended until Sept 15. The form to use is 4868.


I like this. ^

If she passes interview she could be here in March.


Thanks guys for the replies.

You will still need to do the W7 for her to get an ITIN as she will not be able to get an SSN until she has either EAD or her green card.

With this being your first year filing jointly you will probably want to take a look at Publication 519 and seriously look at the option of first year election to gain the maximum benefit. Many tax preparers are not familiar with this option and the benefits can be great.


Thanks, Lee. I understand about the W7 and ITIN after she is here. I just figure it'll be easier here to get her passport notarized.
My original thought was a copy of the tax return with her name on it would be good evidence at interview.

I'll check out Publication 519



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