Evolution of relationship letter/story

[naogong]

When I first met with my chinese-american lawyer to file the I-130 for my wife's visa application, among the things she told me to do was to write a "story" of how we met, fell in love, and married. I started it shortly after my return from my first visit to my wife in Chengdu, but never finished and am trying to complete it now. Those of you who have read my past posts may have noticed I'm prone to long winded questions, and tend to go overboard in providing details. What I've written so far is more like a novel than a short story, and I've been told many times that the interview is short, so not to get bogged down in excessive details, or evidence. If anyone has advice on what to include in the "evolution of relationship" or as I've titled it "The story of Keke's and my Love" I'd really appreciate it. Also would be interested if GUZ would really like to have a written description of how we met, married, and some of the details of my visit's (3 month long visit's in the last two years-including this one to be with her for the interview), and how we have stayed in contact during the two year's since we first met online, and the 19 months we've been married. Xie, xie for any advice you can provide!

[Robert S.]

The most important part of your long question is what does GUZ want. She needs to be ready to answer their questions in very short, choppy answers. They very often, if not always ask "how did you meet?" At this point she can tell a little of the story, she might have 30 seconds or even a minute. She would tell about when you first went to China and maybe she would have time to tell when you two first realized you were in love. But they don't have time to listen to the whole story. You can have the long version written and available in her supporting documents file, although it is almost certain the VO will not even glance at it much less read it. (If you want someone to read it please post it here in the Our Stories board!!!!) The supporting documents she will have as far as proving the relationship will be copies of emails, handwritten love letters (important!!!), pictures, tickets, etc., which I am sure you already know all about. They largely go on feel.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Robert S. (see edit history)

[Carl]

I never had to write a story as to how Ying and I met and married. I just submitted the required paperwork, made sure Ying had plenty of pictures of us together, copies of some of our chats and copies of my passport and visas entering China. Just let your wifes confidence show through and you will be fine.

[david_dawei]

I included an evolution of the relationship in my original petition. I made it two parts; first part was the relationship (less than a page); and a final few setences in more legal sounding jargon which was the "intent to marry" statement. Finished with "we look forward to the process and eventually spending our life together".. or something sappy like that.

 

For the evolution part, I keep it mostly factual with a dash of sentimentality (how we first meet and where, what we discussed in general, what drew our interest to each other --told of how we send each other poems from our country, when I first visited, decided together to get engaged and described that). I took great pains to ensure that every fact was correct and could be verified by some other evidence (boarding passes matched to dates I mentioned, etc).

 

But one wants to make sure that while USCIS is really using this letter (if submitted) as part of the approval, GUZ could use it to question your SO).. SO make sure she gets a copy... I would keep it brief so your SO doesn't really have to recall every detail you state in the letter. If you write too much only from your heart then she might not really know or understand the exact comments.

[SirLancelot]

This topic brings up an interesting point.

 

I'm curious if USCIS/DoS Consuler Posts/POEs require that the couple be in love when approving or granting entry on a K1 visa. What I'm asking is whether there is an implied requirement that the marriage be out of love and not for other reasons.

 

I'm not talking about fraudulent marriages for the sole purpose of obtaining a K1 visa. The concept of marriage with love is a relatively recent phenomenon in historical perspectives. There are cultures which don't think love is so important as much as financial security in terms of marriage. So long as the man can be a good provider for the wife and children, then he is fine; no need for mushy love. Likewise for the woman, it doesn't matter if she's hot or sexy or great in bed, all that matters is that she is fit to bear children and will take care of the household chores. Love has nothing to do with marriage.

 

As there is no explicit requirement that states a couple must be in love to marry on the instruction form of the I129F petition, are USCIS adjudicators trained to detect if the couple are genuinely in love? Or are they trained specifically NOT to only seek evidence of love, but just that it's a genuine relationship leading to marriage--whether it be a love marriage or another kind of marriage.

 

 

 

This is interesting to think about.

[Yuanyang]

This topic brings up an interesting point.

 

I'm curious if USCIS/DoS Consuler Posts/POEs require that the couple be in love when approving or granting entry on a K1 visa. What I'm asking is whether there is an implied requirement that the marriage be out of love and not for other reasons.

 

I'm not talking about fraudulent marriages for the sole purpose of obtaining a K1 visa. The concept of marriage with love is a relatively recent phenomenon in historical perspectives. There are cultures which don't think love is so important as much as financial security in terms of marriage. So long as the man can be a good provider for the wife and children, then he is fine; no need for mushy love. Likewise for the woman, it doesn't matter if she's hot or sexy or great in bed, all that matters is that she is fit to bear children and will take care of the household chores. Love has nothing to do with marriage.

 

As there is no explicit requirement that states a couple must be in love to marry on the instruction form of the I129F petition, are USCIS adjudicators trained to detect if the couple are genuinely in love? Or are they trained specifically NOT to only seek evidence of love, but just that it's a genuine relationship leading to marriage--whether it be a love marriage or another kind of marriage.

 

 

 

This is interesting to think about.

I agree. As I understand it they are asking for proof of a bona fide relationship between the man and woman. Nowhere does it ask for proof of love in the relationship.

[david_dawei]

I like and agree with the way Don put it in another thread...

 

Hold on a minute. Like Tina Turner asked in her song, what's love got to do with it. Can you point me to any of the immigration forms that asks about love? Even an I-129F only requires that you met in person sometime in the last 2 years and that you intend to marry within 90 days of arrival in the US. Love is not a requirement.

 

To paraphrase a well known immigration attorney, he had a case where a disabled guy who couldn't have sex married a foreign gal. It ended up in immigration court. The ruling was, since they both provided comfort and companionship for each other, they probably had as good a reason for marriage as anyone else. She got her green card. Love was not a requirement.

 

Think about the marriage laws. The law does not require love as a condition to be married. In states that recognize common law marriages, it only takes the couple to represent themselves as man and wife. In this case, marriage isn't even a contract, it is merely a rule of law.

 

Personally, I do think that a loving marriage is the way to go, but it is certainly not required in the eyes of the law or the USCIS.

[SmilingAsia]

The statment about how you met, spent time together, fell in love - one page is good, two pages is maximum. The interview lasts only a few minutes.

Train your SO to answer questions briefly in clear short sentences, and be confident.

If the interview lasts 20 minutes or longer, it only means losts of documents or facts are questionable and VO wants to verify.

[naogong]

Thanks for everyone's advice and comments, I will write a brief narrative that tells the how we met, when we decided to marry, and the continuing daily communication between us via email, IM conversations, and cards, gifts, and flower's I have sent during our more than 2 year relationship, and 1 year, 10 months of marriage. My wife has bought me lots of gifts, and also for my son on his birthday, Children's day, and Christmas. My family have also written cards, and emails, sent pictures, and expressed their joy at our marriage and their desire for her to be with me in the US and to be her "American family". Because of the issue of visa fraud for material gain, I don't plan to say much about the gifts she has given me, or those her family has provided. My wife had been accepted to a Swiss University when we met, when she decided to marry me she lost a $2500 US deposit she had paid the school. I think this would be a good thing to mention, it would show that she didn't marry me out of a desire for material gain, and that in fact she took a financial "hit" when she changed her plans. We have the document's showing her losing the deposit, but they aren't translated or notarized. We will bring them with the idea of presenting them only if there is a blue slip and request for more evidence. Any thoughts on this? One disturbing thing we learned yesterday was about a friend of her's who received a blue slip last week at her interview. The VO refused to even look at her evidence, and I spoke with her chinese-american husband and he told me they blue slipped him because he didn't have evidence showing complete separation from his ex-wife! They expected him to show a utility bill, or some evidence that showed her having seperate bills, and residence. I was divorced 6 years ago, and my ex-wife and I have a son. We get along well and cooperate in raising our son, and after hearing this I asked her to scan and send a utility bill showing her different address and that I'm not listed on the bill. She graciously said she would also send a copy of her marriage license showing she has remarried, and her SSN#, which a CFL member had sent me a personal message advising that I have, saying that it had recently been asked for by GUZ. Any idea what is up with this? I was interested in the discussion about love not being a requirement for a marriage, and visa, but our marriage is definitely about love! My wife shows me so much affection, concern for my somewhat fragile health (which I told her about in detail early in our writing), and treats me as if I'm the most important person in her life in every way. I also love her with all my heart, and follow the advice I read in a past discussion on CFL "About how do you show your chinese SO that you love her", the consensus being that actions speak louder than words. I share everything with her, materially, but more importantly in my mind I never do anything without asking for her opinion and input first. Of course I also tell her constantly that I love love her, that her happiness and security are my first priority, and I honor her parent's, and family member's, and never come to Chengdu without gifts, and always put aside my desire to be alone with her when there are family events that oblige us to attend a meal, or celebration with her family. I arrived this visit on her grandmther's birthday, and after asking if it was ok, sang happy birthday in English to her lai lai, which all the family enjoyed (even though my singing voice leaves much to be desired). As usual for me I've written a much too long post, but the things I would appreciate input on are; 1) What's with this interest in ex-wive's bills, and SSN#'s? 2) Would it be worth the effort to translate and notarize the documents showing she could have gone to Switzerland to a good school, and lost $2500 US when she married me?, 3) What can you do if the VO won't even look at the evidence which we've spent days preparing since my arrival, and the last two years accumulating? Thanks again for the advice to keep the "evolution of relationship" to very short story format. And could anyone please advise on the 3 issues I've brought up? Xie, xie to all who have been so helpful in the past, and for any input on these new questions!

[SirLancelot]

Hi naogong.

 

From your description below, it does seem you love your wife very much and treat her very well. It's very respectful for you to oblige your wife and her family customs. Good job!

 

I will comment on your #2 question.

 

Others may disagree, but I have reservations about you offering this info. If I were the VO, I would be highly suspect of why she allowed $2500USD to go down the drain. Unless I can see from her application that she's quite wealthy, I would suspect there might be some greater financial gain for her by sacrificing the $2500USD and gaining more in another manner.

 

I think it best not to mention this at all.

 

As you've been married almost 2 years, I don't think you have much to worry about. Are there many K-3/CR1 denials? I would think it's just a formality in getting your visa, and to make sure you have enough resources to support your wife once she's in the US. Otherwise it should be fine.

 

Of course I could be too naive.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks for everyone's advice and comments, I will write a brief narrative that tells the how we met, when we decided to marry, and the continuing daily communication between us via email, IM conversations, and cards, gifts, and flower's I have sent during our more than 2 year relationship, and 1 year, 10 months of marriage. My wife has bought me lots of gifts, and also for my son on his birthday, Children's day, and Christmas. My family have also written cards, and emails, sent pictures, and expressed their joy at our marriage and their desire for her to be with me in the US and to be her "American family". Because of the issue of visa fraud for material gain, I don't plan to say much about the gifts she has given me, or those her family has provided. My wife had been accepted to a Swiss University when we met, when she decided to marry me she lost a $2500 US deposit she had paid the school. I think this would be a good thing to mention, it would show that she didn't marry me out of a desire for material gain, and that in fact she took a financial "hit" when she changed her plans. We have the document's showing her losing the deposit, but they aren't translated or notarized. We will bring them with the idea of presenting them only if there is a blue slip and request for more evidence. Any thoughts on this? One disturbing thing we learned yesterday was about a friend of her's who received a blue slip last week at her interview. The VO refused to even look at her evidence, and I spoke with her chinese-american husband and he told me they blue slipped him because he didn't have evidence showing complete separation from his ex-wife! They expected him to show a utility bill, or some evidence that showed her having seperate bills, and residence. I was divorced 6 years ago, and my ex-wife and I have a son. We get along well and cooperate in raising our son, and after hearing this I asked her to scan and send a utility bill showing her different address and that I'm not listed on the bill. She graciously said she would also send a copy of her marriage license showing she has remarried, and her SSN#, which a CFL member had sent me a personal message advising that I have, saying that it had recently been asked for by GUZ. Any idea what is up with this? I was interested in the discussion about love not being a requirement for a marriage, and visa, but our marriage is definitely about love! My wife shows me so much affection, concern for my somewhat fragile health (which I told her about in detail early in our writing), and treats me as if I'm the most important person in her life in every way. I also love her with all my heart, and follow the advice I read in a past discussion on CFL "About how do you show your chinese SO that you love her", the consensus being that actions speak louder than words. I share everything with her, materially, but more importantly in my mind I never do anything without asking for her opinion and input first. Of course I also tell her constantly that I love love her, that her happiness and security are my first priority, and I honor her parent's, and family member's, and never come to Chengdu without gifts, and always put aside my desire to be alone with her when there are family events that oblige us to attend a meal, or celebration with her family. I arrived this visit on her grandmther's birthday, and after asking if it was ok, sang happy birthday in English to her lai lai, which all the family enjoyed (even though my singing voice leaves much to be desired). As usual for me I've written a much too long post, but the things I would appreciate input on are; 1) What's with this interest in ex-wive's bills, and SSN#'s? 2) Would it be worth the effort to translate and notarize the documents showing she could have gone to Switzerland to a good school, and lost $2500 US when she married me?, 3) What can you do if the VO won't even look at the evidence which we've spent days preparing since my arrival, and the last two years accumulating? Thanks again for the advice to keep the "evolution of relationship" to very short story format. And could anyone please advise on the 3 issues I've brought up? Xie, xie to all who have been so helpful in the past, and for any input on these new questions!

[naogong]

Thank you for the input on my question #2 Don and Lance. My wife's family is fairly wealthy, her father's brother is one of China's new millionaries, and her baba is an engineer, and the home of her aunt and uncle that she lives with, and where I stay on my visit's is nicer than the home I own and she will share in Berkeley. I see your point about the questions the lost deposit might raise in a suspicious VO's mind. My wife has worked throughout our marriage, and I have sent her a relatively small amount of money during our marriage. Two $600 wire transfers to help pay for a TOFEL test she took, teeth cleaning, and I believe a bit of a test to prove that I accepted responsibility for her material needs. I also gave her $2000 we had left over from my trip this Spring Festival at my suggestion, not her request. At our wedding banquet (our marriage was not a wedding-we simply went by ourselves, the morning after I arrived on my first trip, to the Civil Affairs office, gave them what they needed and received our red marriage certificate book) her family gave us the US equivalent of about $5000 US in red bags. Her rich uncle gave us $2400 US himself! I told her to keep all of it, and to save it for whatever she needed, but suggested she save it for our eventual trip to GUZ. She is a lot different than I when it comes to handling money, which we've discussed in detail over the years. I am a bit extreme when it comes to spending, I have never had any debt except for our mortgage, and spend only what is absolutely necessary on myself. I wear clothes till they are almost falling apart, and economize to the point of absurdity on household expenses. She once told me that if she wants something she buys it, and while a shrewd bargainer she buys something if she wants it, though she doesn't spend more than she has, and is as generous in buying things for me as herself. She appreciates my saving habits, and I don't skimp on gifts for her or her family. So I won't mention in the "story", or ask her to tell anything about the lost deposit, unless we get a blue slip and I think it might show she didn't marry me for money. In one of my first emails when I was trying to let her know more about me, I told her that I had a secure job of 22 years of employment at UC Berkeley (you can't believe the mileage I get out of mentioning I work there, people in China all seem to know about UC Berkeley and it is held in high repute as one of the best University's in the US-the stories I could tell! , had no debt except for the house, but was not a rich man, and never would be. She told me she didn't care about my money, other than the ability to provide a decent life for each other, and the child we both desire. Anyway, I'll end this as usual overly long post with thanks to you, and a request that if anyone has any ideas about questions #1, and #3, I would be grateful.

[Robert S.]

Great post and good luck, but you need not worry.

 

#1 - Just guessing, but with the huge number of applicants they process, one of the VOs must have made a slip-up and gave a visa for somebody that was still married, on paper, and must have got in trouble for it. Don't you think? There must be a reason something similar to this. Now they are trying to do a CYA. They get these crazy focused emphasis things every once in a while. Back about 5-6 years ago they were obsessing on whether the couple could actually communicate and some guys had to learn Chinese.

 

#3 - They are not going to gaff you off like that. You are not somebody that fits the profile of somebody for them to mess with. Not like the old used car salesman thrice divorced trying to get a K1 for a young vixen from Fujian who can't even remember his name.