Head/Heart

[A Mafan]

Head/Heart; My wife says the Chinese don't differentiate

 

Thus, there is little difference in thoughts/feelings. She doesn't understand what I mean if I say my heart tells me one thing but my head tells me something else. She is more unified in thought/feeling? Dunno, but the way she describes it, she is.

 

Thoughts? Anyone else run across this?

Edited September 28, 2006 by A Mafan (see edit history)

[Dennis143]

Thus, there is little difference in thoughts/feelings. She doesn't understand what I mean if I say my heart tells me one thing but my head tells me something else. She is more unified in thought/feeling? Dunno, but the way she describes it, she is.

 

Thoughts? Anyone else run across this?

I think you will need for David(Zixuan) to wake up and go to bat on this one.

[david_dawei]

qi chuang ! I'm up ...

 

Head and Heart... one of many [daoist] 'two become one' concepts in chinese philosophy. In the west, we say this among physical people getting married but see no internal connects as such like the asians.

 

Since you study chinese, consider the word "xiang" which is a close connection between "want" in terms of "thinking it"; The want/desire/emotion springs from the mind:

 

these examples are feelings that are thoughts:

wo xiang chu chi fan (I want to go eat)

wo xiang nian ni (I miss you)

 

I think in the more "do" ethic they live by causes them to have most things spring more from the head (or better intuition), rather than from the emotion;

 

Also consider their connect to the environment; or words and action... what you say can come true, so that's why they have superstitions about speaking negative things. Don't mention the "d" word (either one !) , as you might cause it to occur.

 

From a daoist point of view, whereas all things reduce to one, there is also the strong relationship between the environmental influences and man. Even that one's pulse is different in each season (that's why historically they read the pulse for health and not just a beat count).

 

My wife and I constantly repeat the same joke about when she says, "my stomach hurts" she invariably puts her hand to her chest.. and I saw, "your stomachs a little lower".. and she'll say, "NO ! right here".

 

Here's a final thought about east vs west centers of the body:

 

West: The famous status of man is Rodin's sculpture, The Thinker.. with hand placed on chin and man in deep thought... as if the center of mans activities are in his head...

 

East: The famous staus of buddha sitting with hands over the stomach in deep meditation... where the center of man is collected at the stomach.

[A Mafan]

qi chuang ! I'm up ...

 

Head and Heart... one of many [daoist] 'two become one' concepts in chinese philosophy. In the west, we say this among physical people getting married but see no internal connects as such like the asians.

 

Since you study chinese, consider the word "xiang" which is a close connection between "want" in terms of "thinking it"; The want/desire/emotion springs from the mind:

 

these examples are feelings that are thoughts:

wo xiang chu chi fan (I want to go eat)

wo xiang nian ni (I miss you)

 

I think in the more "do" ethic they live by causes them to have most things spring more from the head (or better intuition), rather than from the emotion;

 

Also consider their connect to the environment; or words and action... what you say can come true, so that's why they have superstitions about speaking negative things. Don't mention the "d" word (either one !) , as you might cause it to occur.

 

From a daoist point of view, whereas all things reduce to one, there is also the strong relationship between the environmental influences and man. Even that one's pulse is different in each season (that's why historically they read the pulse for health and not just a beat count).

 

My wife and I constantly repeat the same joke about when she says, "my stomach hurts" she invariably puts her hand to her chest.. and I saw, "your stomachs a little lower".. and she'll say, "NO ! right here".

 

Here's a final thought about east vs west centers of the body:

 

West: The famous status of man is Rodin's sculpture, The Thinker.. with hand placed on chin and man in deep thought... as if the center of mans activities are in his head...

 

East: The famous staus of buddha sitting with hands over the stomach in deep meditation... where the center of man is collected at the stomach.

But when we point to ourselves, we point to our chest, whereas they point to their nose.

 

And pulse: in Chinese gongfu movies, you can kill/hurt someone if you get your hands on their pulse in their wrist. (Dongchengxijiu)

[Trigg]

qi chuang ! I'm up ...

 

Head and Heart... one of many [daoist] 'two become one' concepts in chinese philosophy. In the west, we say this among physical people getting married but see no internal connects as such like the asians.

 

Since you study chinese, consider the word "xiang" which is a close connection between "want" in terms of "thinking it"; The want/desire/emotion springs from the mind:

 

these examples are feelings that are thoughts:

wo xiang chu chi fan (I want to go eat)

wo xiang nian ni (I miss you)

 

I think in the more "do" ethic they live by causes them to have most things spring more from the head (or better intuition), rather than from the emotion;

 

Also consider their connect to the environment; or words and action... what you say can come true, so that's why they have superstitions about speaking negative things. Don't mention the "d" word (either one !) , as you might cause it to occur.

 

From a daoist point of view, whereas all things reduce to one, there is also the strong relationship between the environmental influences and man. Even that one's pulse is different in each season (that's why historically they read the pulse for health and not just a beat count).

 

My wife and I constantly repeat the same joke about when she says, "my stomach hurts" she invariably puts her hand to her chest.. and I saw, "your stomachs a little lower".. and she'll say, "NO ! right here".

 

Here's a final thought about east vs west centers of the body:

 

West: The famous status of man is Rodin's sculpture, The Thinker.. with hand placed on chin and man in deep thought... as if the center of mans activities are in his head...

 

East: The famous staus of buddha sitting with hands over the stomach in deep meditation... where the center of man is collected at the stomach.

Oh yea but this is not and east vs west thing--We have studied self-fulfilling prophecies since studying began.

 

As for head/heart do remember that the 'heart' does not think, or as per the eastern philosophy, neither does the stomach. So why do we associate feeling with the heart and or stomach. Simple, psycho-somatism. Get excited and the heart skips a beat, beats faster OR the stomach makes more acid and feels as though it churns etc....... Long before man realized that all thinking takes place in the brain, he knew that several events caused changes in his 'feeling body' ( heart stomach etc.). It's a simple jump from there to establish long lasting beliefs that the heart or stomach have input into our thought processes--quite possibly if one feels his heart racing or skipping or his stomach growling or churning and one attributes this to something then indeed his/her thought patterns may indeed change to match. The only cultural or philosophical implications are how he processes this in order to attribute the feelings into active thought!

 

The catecholamines released by the brain in response to thoughts do indeed cause the 'feeling body' to change--Love, hate , fear, etc. all have their own unique set of chemicals that the brain releases--each cause slightly different 'body feelings'-how we interpret these feelings (attribution theory) Is determined by learning.

 

Kinda basic psychobiology 101 huh???

[Q&Q]

Head/Heart; My wife says the Chinese don't differentiate

 

Thus, there is little difference in thoughts/feelings. She doesn't understand what I mean if I say my heart tells me one thing but my head tells me something else. She is more unified in thought/feeling? Dunno, but the way she describes it, she is.

 

Thoughts? Anyone else run across this?

 

We do differentiate head and heart. But people are different. I have a friend who can't tell the differece between her thoughts and her feelings.

 

When you say your heart tells you one thing, you're talking about how you feel, and you follow your feelings and emotions to decide what to do. When your head tells you another, that's like you think what you should do under the consideration of all aspects. You're following common sense and you may do as what the people would do when they're in the same situation.

 

For example, when someone's fiance cheats on him, his heart is broken, but he's still deep in love with her. His heart says forgive her once and love her more than ever before to win her back. But there're so many red flags there that his head tells him he should forget her instead of forgive her and move on.

[david_dawei]

Kinda basic psychobiology 101 huh???

 

I'd say more like psycho-babble 101...

 

Before we replace all of chinese philosophy with some sort of acid reflux theory, it might be best to get more specific since some are not getting the point...

 

In the west, descarte's "I think therefore I am" , made the distinction between the mind (a thinking thing) and the body; basic dualism.

 

The chinese word "xin" is usually translated heart, but has historically be translated more as heart-mind. This principle is one of the most important in chinese philosophy. Confucius, who had no psychological theory, made no distinction between the affect and intellect; Daoist theory does the same. The concept of heart-mind is found in buddhism and Zen as well; "putting on the heart-mind of buddha".

 

The influence of philosophy on language and the language on people has preserved this non-distinction to some level.

 

If anyone is interested in learning about this important concept, I'd encourage you to do some of your own research.

[Joanne]

There is one commonly used phrase in Chinese: "Wo Xin Xiang" - literally translated to: My heart think..... Actually it means I thought or I was thinking...

Edited September 29, 2006 by Joanne (see edit history)

[Trigg]

Kinda basic psychobiology 101 huh???

 

I'd say more like psycho-babble 101...

 

Before we replace all of chinese philosophy with some sort of acid reflux theory, it might be best to get more specific since some are not getting the point...

 

In the west, descarte's "I think therefore I am" , made the distinction between the mind (a thinking thing) and the body; basic dualism.

 

The chinese word "xin" is usually translated heart, but has historically be translated more as heart-mind. This principle is one of the most important in chinese philosophy. Confucius, who had no psychological theory, made no distinction between the affect and intellect; Daoist theory does the same. The concept of heart-mind is found in buddhism and Zen as well; "putting on the heart-mind of buddha".

 

The influence of philosophy on language and the language on people has preserved this non-distinction to some level.

 

If anyone is interested in learning about this important concept, I'd encourage you to do some of your own research.

Next time read with an open mind rather than immediately scream 'psychobabble'!! I had made your point for you. I had supported east and west together and had explained the whys and hows of dualism to you. Perhaps east isn't as open minded as is preached grasshopper!

 

Oh, and Descarte said "Cognito ergo sum" =I am the sum of my thoughts-nothing to do with mind body dualism but rather mind over matter

Edited September 29, 2006 by Trigg (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

Kinda basic psychobiology 101 huh???

 

I'd say more like psycho-babble 101...

 

Before we replace all of chinese philosophy with some sort of acid reflux theory, it might be best to get more specific since some are not getting the point...

 

In the west, descarte's "I think therefore I am" , made the distinction between the mind (a thinking thing) and the body; basic dualism.

 

The chinese word "xin" is usually translated heart, but has historically be translated more as heart-mind. This principle is one of the most important in chinese philosophy. Confucius, who had no psychological theory, made no distinction between the affect and intellect; Daoist theory does the same. The concept of heart-mind is found in buddhism and Zen as well; "putting on the heart-mind of buddha".

 

The influence of philosophy on language and the language on people has preserved this non-distinction to some level.

 

If anyone is interested in learning about this important concept, I'd encourage you to do some of your own research.

Next time read with an open mind rather than immediately scream 'psychobabble'!! I had made your point for you. I had supported east and west together and had explained the whys and hows of dualism to you. Perhaps east isn't as open minded as is preached grasshopper!

 

Oh, and Descarte said "Cognito ergo sum" =I am the sum of my thoughts-nothing to do with mind body dualism but rather mind over matter

 

There are no exclaimation points in my comment to suggest a scream.. not sure why you assume as such.

 

I said psycho, as in psyschology.. and I pointed out that Confucius did not have a psychological theory; And it was a bit of babbling to me.. I don't see it's relevants to the doctrine of heart-mind in asian philosophy.

 

And not sure why you feel you are explaining dualism to me.. I'm not sure this thread has anything to do with dualism... it has to do with an important asian holistic concept of the interdependence of heart-mind... the origin of which is from the word "xin"..

 

And not many are going to argue that Descarte's comment further setup the mind as a distinction from the body with his statement.. but I'll let others do the research on the implications his statement had on dualistic thought... unless you want to start your own thread and discuss dualism.

 

Mind-Body Dualism in the current philosophical understanding of the term originates from one man, the seventeenth century French philosopher Rene Descartes. It was Descartes who gave the world that much quoted utterance "I think, therefore I am". He was also the one who popularised the idea of reality as a dichotomy of matter (extended or spatial substance) and spirit (thinking substance, including God). This form of mind-body dualism became known as "Cartesian Dualism", after the Latin pronunciation of Descartes (Cartes) -- http://www.kheper.net/topics/worldviews/dualism.htm

Edited September 29, 2006 by DavidZixuan (see edit history)

[Trigg]

Daddy always taught me not to argue with someone who always believes they are right--no matter what the facts show. I simply expalined the origins of WHY people from all parts of the earth think mind and body are the same. I certainly hope that all who follow eastern philospphy aren't so defensive or so narrow minded as to ingore research even if it does support there postition--just because it is research!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You make want you want out of descartes 'cognito ergo sum'. I'd rather think for myself than let dead guys do my thinking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[david_dawei]

Daddy always taught me not to argue with someone who always believes they are right--no matter what the facts show. I simply expalined the origins of WHY people from all parts of the earth think mind and body are the same. I certainly hope that all who follow eastern philospphy aren't so defensive or so narrow minded as to ingore research even if it does support there postition--just because it is research!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You make want you want out of descartes 'cognito ergo sum'. I'd rather think for myself than let dead guys do my thinking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

This isn't about right and wrong; that's just another dualistic thought...

 

I thought this was about Head/heart... not Mind / Body

 

Descartes comment is not a correct statement anyway.. It was shown long ago he should of said, "I think, therefore I have thoughts"... by another dead man of course...

[Joanne]

There is one commonly used phrase in Chinese: "Wo Xin Xiang" - literally translated to: My heart think..... Actually it means I thought or I was thinking...

[Rakkasan]

Oh yea but this is not and east vs west thing--We have studied self-fulfilling prophecies since studying began.

 

As for head/heart do remember that the 'heart' does not think, or as per the eastern philosophy, neither does the stomach. So why do we associate feeling with the heart and or stomach. Simple, psycho-somatism. Get excited and the heart skips a beat, beats faster OR the stomach makes more acid and feels as though it churns etc....... Long before man realized that all thinking takes place in the brain, he knew that several events caused changes in his 'feeling body' ( heart stomach etc.). It's a simple jump from there to establish long lasting beliefs that the heart or stomach have input into our thought processes--quite possibly if one feels his heart racing or skipping or his stomach growling or churning and one attributes this to something then indeed his/her thought patterns may indeed change to match. The only cultural or philosophical implications are how he processes this in order to attribute the feelings into active thought!

 

The catecholamines released by the brain in response to thoughts do indeed cause the 'feeling body' to change--Love, hate , fear, etc. all have their own unique set of chemicals that the brain releases--each cause slightly different 'body feelings'-how we interpret these feelings (attribution theory) Is determined by learning.

 

Kinda basic psychobiology 101 huh???

 

Basic psychobiology? Scary is more like it. Did anyone else notice how many big words were used and were properly spelled in this post.

 

WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH OUR TRIGG????

[warpedbored]

Can you say PHD in psycology? Our resident jokester is much more intellegent than many of his posts would seem.

 

Personally I find psycho babble easier to swallow than eastern mysticism mumbo jumbo. The fact is we are all human and have the same basic emotions. It's how we act on them that's different.

 

Oh yea but this is not and east vs west thing--We have studied self-fulfilling prophecies since studying began.

 

As for head/heart do remember that the 'heart' does not think, or as per the eastern philosophy, neither does the stomach. So why do we associate feeling with the heart and or stomach. Simple, psycho-somatism. Get excited and the heart skips a beat, beats faster OR the stomach makes more acid and feels as though it churns etc....... Long before man realized that all thinking takes place in the brain, he knew that several events caused changes in his 'feeling body' ( heart stomach etc.). It's a simple jump from there to establish long lasting beliefs that the heart or stomach have input into our thought processes--quite possibly if one feels his heart racing or skipping or his stomach growling or churning and one attributes this to something then indeed his/her thought patterns may indeed change to match. The only cultural or philosophical implications are how he processes this in order to attribute the feelings into active thought!

 

The catecholamines released by the brain in response to thoughts do indeed cause the 'feeling body' to change--Love, hate , fear, etc. all have their own unique set of chemicals that the brain releases--each cause slightly different 'body feelings'-how we interpret these feelings (attribution theory) Is determined by learning.

 

Kinda basic psychobiology 101 huh???

 

Basic psychobiology? Scary is more like it. Did anyone else notice how many big words were used and were properly spelled in this post.

 

WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH OUR TRIGG????