Question regarding Chinese SO's signature on G-325A

[david_dawei]

their names in Typed Chinese characters pasted into the space asking for the native alphabet representations of their names.

 

I agree with some of what you are saying... but I do personally think this one is wrong; I would be inclined to write the Pinyin representation in this 'native alphabet block'... (for reasons I don't think is worth arguing anymore... so just my opinion).

[Guest pushbrk]

I wonder if the member who asked the question got their answer.

 

No need to wonder. Clearly the OP got conflicting answers. As certain as I am about the Alphabet question and the signature, I'm just as certain that if the beneficiary's name is represented somewhere in Chinese characters, the visa will not be held up for an error in this area. As for the signature, who is the US government to say what is the benificiary's signature and what is not. As long as they "sign" consistently.

[wbrettleo]

I wonder if the member who asked the question got their answer.

 

Yes, I did get my answer and then some. I did enjoy the lively discussion. Thank you everyone. But I must say that I am still just a bit perplexed about whether she should sign as:

 

Tang (her surname), first name & middle or first & middle Tang (her surname) - I am reading that both are ok.

 

As for the space with the "alphabet", i will have her put the chinese characters in the order of Surname First Middle.

Edited September 7, 2006 by wbrettleo (see edit history)

[Guest pushbrk]

I wonder if the member who asked the question got their answer.

 

Yes, I did get my answer and then some. I did enjoy the lively discussion. Thank you everyone. But I must say that I am still just a bit perplexed about whether she should sign as:

 

Tang (her surname), first name & middle or first & middle Tang (her surname) - I am reading that both are ok.

 

As for the space with the "alphabet", i will have her put the chinese characters in the order of Surname First Middle.

 

Chinese names are a bit confusing at first. I doubt she has a middle name and you will want to be very careful about this. Her given name may have two or more syllables. Each syllable is represented by a character but it is still only one name. For example, it takes three characters to write "Li Lihua" but it is only a family name (surname) and first name or "given name". There is no "middle name". You are thinking of the second syllable of her first and only "given name".

 

Her signature is her "signature", whatever it is. Surely you've seen completely illegible signatures in the USA. It is a "signature".

 

The reason you want to be careful about ever representing her as having a middle name is to avoid her name appearing incorrectly on identification papers or differently than it will be shown on he Chinese Passport.

[david_dawei]

I wonder if the member who asked the question got their answer.

 

No need to wonder. Clearly the OP got conflicting answers. As certain as I am about the Alphabet question and the signature, I'm just as certain that if the beneficiary's name is represented somewhere in Chinese characters, the visa will not be held up for an error in this area. As for the signature, who is the US government to say what is the benificiary's signature and what is not. As long as they "sign" consistently.

 

 

If there's one thing we should learn and know about this process, our opinion means squat; It's only the US governments opinion which matters...

 

I would also argue that many sign inconsistently through the process, even double signing (character notation and pinyin notation) without any issue... (we were very inconsistent with the signature; I slowly got her to change it by the end to sign in western notation).

 

---

 

To attempt put this issue 'to bed', I called the US Customer Service Center and asked them to explain it... I was put on hold twice as the person confirmed and clarified. It was not what I expected... so I was corrected:

 

Here is what I was told from the horses mouth:

 

Signature block: Sign in english, just as any american signs their name. (My opinion; they are not used to cursive writing, so they may start out with printing it-- we did this).

 

Other than native alphabet block: Put the chinese characters.

 

 

I neglected to ask them the order they wanted the chinese characters in. (My opinion is that it should be in western notation: John Smith or Smith, John ... replaced with the characters. This is why IMO it's best to put Pinyin in parenthesis after the characters to ensure the order relative to the name)

 

 

So, IMO, the best practice is:

 

native alphabet section:

 

[Chinese characters in John Smith order] [followed by pinyin in same order]

 

 

Signature block:

 

[Pinyin of the chinese name in John Smith order]

 

 

--------

 

My one [very strongly felt] personal opinion about names is to always put the last name in ALL CAPITALS on every form , for every person you must reference. This is a consistent visual of which is the first name and which is the last name, and is consistent with governmetn documents I have seen doing the same...

 

So, John SMITH or SMITH, John (as western notation).

[Guest pushbrk]

I wonder if the member who asked the question got their answer.

 

No need to wonder. Clearly the OP got conflicting answers. As certain as I am about the Alphabet question and the signature, I'm just as certain that if the beneficiary's name is represented somewhere in Chinese characters, the visa will not be held up for an error in this area. As for the signature, who is the US government to say what is the benificiary's signature and what is not. As long as they "sign" consistently.

 

 

If there's one thing we should learn and know about this process, our opinion means squat; It's only the US governments opinion which matters...

 

I would also argue that many sign inconsistently through the process, even double signing (character notation and pinyin notation) without any issue... (we were very inconsistent with the signature; I slowly got her to change it by the end to sign in western notation).

 

---

 

To attempt put this issue 'to bed', I called the US Customer Service Center and asked them to explain it... I was put on hold twice as the person confirmed and clarified. It was not what I expected... so I was corrected:

 

 

 

--------

 

My one [very strongly felt] personal opinion about names is to always put the last name in ALL CAPITALS on every form , for every person you must reference. This is a consistent visual of which is the first name and which is the last name, and is consistent with governmetn documents I have seen doing the same...

 

So, John SMITH or SMITH, John (as western notation).

 

I agree strongly with using all capital letters for the family name on all forms, with the exception of "signature" or native characters. However, when a form asks for a signature, it is asking for the person's actual "signature". As Randy says, if you have to learn a new way to write your name it isn't your "signature". I did not sign my Chinese marriage papers using Simplified Characters. I provided MY signature or MY "mark", to use an old term from before we expected all Americans to read and write. That said, whatever you write as a signature, is your signature, whether pinyin, Chinese Characters or illegible scribble. Clearly from David's experience even inconsistent signatures were no problem.

 

Soon my wife will learn to sign her name Western Style. As of now, she hasn't a clue how to do that. We'll be working on it this week. Daughter started school today so, she learned last night. Even the concept of cursive writing was totally foreign to her.

[fewmgf]

Chinese names are a bit confusing at first. I doubt she has a middle name and you will want to be very careful about this. Her given name may have two or more syllables. Each syllable is represented by a character but it is still only one name. For example, it takes three characters to write "Li Lihua" but it is only a family name (surname) and first name or "given name". There is no "middle name". You are thinking of the second syllable of her first and only "given name".

 

This is the exact mistake we made, and caused a bit of a headache to get corrected by phone. We filled out the first and second sylable as first and middle name, which was incorrect.