America: Day 4

[Robert S.]

One more thing that is cheaper here than in China: Hagen Daaz ice cream!

My fiancee said it costs more than 80 yuan for one bar there and it's only available in GZ now.  Told her she can eat all she wants when she get here.

No kidding! My brother in Canada still complained about his two nieces asking him for Hagen Daaz treat in Shanghai: 2 scoops =160 yuan, close to $20 here = 3 times what they would cost here ???

What your brother should have done was told the girls if they wanted Haagen Daaz ice cream then they would have to bargain down the price to get the seller to give them a discount, otherwise he would not buy it.

 

It is a shame that there is not much opportunity for this skill, what my grandfather and his cronies called "trading" here in America any more. Old Grand-dad was very proud of his mastery of the psychology involved with this type of confrontation and negotiation between buyer and seller. And when you have a skill you want to use it!!!

 

Charlotte, do you ever miss the fun of haggling?

[tonado]

I took my dad to a new DVD/VCD/CD store in Chinatown today. We bought a bunch of disks and my dad haggled for a few dollars.

[owenkrout]

A real cultural difference between my wife and myself is that she obviously enjoys the haggling over the price of things. I, on the other hand, find it tedious. I am glad that she so enjoys bargaining because if she didn't then I would be paying the foreign devil price for everything. My impatience with the whole process works to her advantage since after she has haggled awhile I typically will announce, "Forget it. It's not worth it. Let's go!" and turn to walk away. This usually causes a minor panic on the part of the vendor and the price starts dropping rapidly. Possibly because they detect that I really am serious. Often supposedly non-existent English skills emerge from the vendor at that point also.

 

I was brought up with the attitude that either they wanted to sell it for a price I was willing to pay or they didn't. No point in wasting my time if they didn't. I at least am now developing a sense of what is a fair price here and will offer what is fair. They either accept it, which is common, or I look elsewhere. I just don't enjoy the contest like my wife does.

[Charlotte]

Charlotte, do you ever miss the fun of haggling?

When I left China in 1989, there was no haggling back then except on the farmer's market.

The last few times I was in China, everything seemed so cheap to me that I did not bother to haggle and my daughter would always tell on me to my parents that I was cheated on the price. She would usually drag me away from the vendors and then they would want to give me a better price.

Besides, many big departments stores in Shanghai do not allow haggling price. Any discount is cleared marked. My sister works in the #1 Department store (used to be the biggest) in Shanghai on Nanjiing Road. Even with her employee status we could not haggle the price. We had to pay what is marked, but on the other hand, these stores are more reasonable priced than those of street vendors.

[Guest R2D2]

sss

[Robert S.]

Charlotte, do you ever miss the fun of haggling?

When I left China in 1989, there was no haggling back then except on the farmer's market.

The last few times I was in China, everything seemed so cheap to me that I did not bother to haggle and my daughter would always tell on me to my parents that I was cheated on the price. She would usually drag me away from the vendors and then they would want to give me a better price.

There was no haggling back in 1989? That is interesting because I thought the Far East was like the Middle East in that there never had been a fixed price. That is funny the way your daughter "told on" you for paying too much and dragged you away to keep you from paying the first asking price. I am still holding a tiny grudge against my dear Ping for not allowing me to buy any mango from a street vendor in Dalian who had some particularly luscious looking fruit. She told me he was charging too much and I asked her to get him to come down but she said it would not be possible because the guy knew that I was the one who wanted them. Heck the price was less than in America so it was a good deal to me. She said we would buy mango somewhere else but I never did get a mango that day.

[Charlotte]

[There was no haggling back in 1989?  That is interesting because I thought the Far East was like the Middle East in that there never had been a fixed price.

China has started heading toward the market economy only since late 80's,which was about the time I left the country. At that time, majority of the busineses were state-owned, prices were state-controlled. Not much haggle you could do to those businesses.

[Robert S.]

I took my dad to a new DVD/VCD/CD store in Chinatown today.  We bought a bunch of disks and my dad haggled for a few dollars. 

Tony, Did your dad get a better deal? I'll bet he did!!!

 

It can't be denied that there is a real art to this kind of price negotiating, and it still lives on in the buying and selling of livestock here in America. When my grandfather had his cattle farm other cattlemen would come to him to buy his registered Angus cows. I would feel like I was in the presence of an occult mystery when I observed these master traders in their subtle dickering over price versus quality of the bulls or cows in question. Hundreds of dollars could be gained or lost with a small gesture which either hid or revealed your true attitude to the other man.

 

I feel sorry for those Shenyang vendors that get "beat out" on their price by Owen's walk-away technique!!! (Not really.)

[tonado]

Tony, Did your dad get a better deal?  I'll bet he did!!!  

 

I think he saved only $2.

[Calvin]

I came back with over 400 dvds from my three trips to China last year. A real bargain! Be careful of the faked ones though.

[owenkrout]

I've got to ask, Eric. Do you have an electric or a gas range for her to cook on? Electric would be a really big adjustment for her. Even the gas would seem to be a pitifully small flame from what she is used to in China where you could run a small smelter on the flame they cook with! Being in Wichita the chances are good that she at least got a gas range.

[Mick]

As to the haggling and bargaining, I see that Li often enjoys this sort of thing whereas I hate it. But once she gets going, there is no stopping her. She will haggle forever if need be. Our first year together in Hefei she bargained for a heavy two-layered coat for me at an outside stall. The weather had turned cold and I needed a good coat. I stood in the sleet and snow for about half an hour while she and the shop keeper went at it. Price started at 450 RMB (foreign devil price). I ended up paying 148. I later found out that the last ten minutes or so was spent getting the price down from 150 to 148.

 

All of this mind you while I was shivering in the sleet and snow. At least I saved two RMB!

 

One other note: One item that is sure more expensive in China than the US is coffee. I mean real coffee, not that Nescafe in a bag stuff. At the local hotel that serves it here, a cup will cost you almost four bucks US.

 

I did find several places that now sell the real McCoy when it comes to coffee but it is still pricey. I am a coffee lover so I pay up.

[April]

Two quick stories about my wife, before we were married, once in Shanghai, once in Boston.

She and I were travelling to Shanghai, and went out to an outdoor restaurant in the end of August in the nicer part of the city. La di da fancy. The place was so nice, the waitresses and waitors brought us over some hot wet napkins for us to wipe with after a fantastic meal. They brought the bill, and my girlfriend (at the time) took it and checked it for the "foreignors discount" (you know that "pengyou dazhi" which really means add another 50% to the price). And found the napkins, which we each used one of, cost 3RMB!

Understandably upset, she took the initiative. She called the wait people over and said, roughly, "I won't pay for this. Take it off our bill." "No, you used it" was the response, and the haggling ensued. It came down to this: being in an ouside restaurant, which we had no intention of frequenting, we could just leave, and moreover, charging us for something that other places are free without informing us that they will charge us is simply wrong, so they didn't charge us.

Did I mention that this whole process took about 40 minutes, and I'm sitting there the whole time saying, "its only 6 RMB, who cares? That's less than a dollar!"

 

 

Story 2:

The wedding dress. My fiance (at the time) and I went out for a good Chinese food breakfast and went to get the ring, one sunday, before we got married. All the jewelry stores were closed, so it was dress time. We went to 6 different places. Each place had beautiful dresses, which she looked lovely in, though some places didn't have any that fit her. It was late, cold, and rainy, and we were really tired of walking, so we gave up. This was two days before our marriage, so we REALLY needed a dress though.

So finally, we get on the T to go home, and end up on Newburry Street. Jenny McClintock. We are in there, and find a dress my fiancee loves, but it is the wrong size and no time to fix it. So we find another (after about 1 hour of trying things on). We bring it to the register after she complained to me in private on how many people must have tried this on, so she thinks there should be a new one in the back, and if not, a discount. I agreed, of course.

So at the register, I say, "got any like it in the back?" "No." "I see. So what can you do for me?" "Nothing." Then some boss who heard her complain to me said, "Give'm 10% off, we've done that before, it's okay." And my wife, still not satisfied said, "can't you just make it 100?" (it was 130 before) "No. we don't just do discounts, has to be a percentage."

My wife's hero, I argued that because the drycleaner would have to do this for next day, and it clearly needed to be drycleaned, making it at least a 20 dollar discount would cover that cost. They said they couldn't. But then, tired of us, the boss came over again and said, "we've done 15% before, give them that." and they did. which worked out to be about 20 dollars, so we were all happy.

We didn't get it drycleaned, the dress was fine.

 

So, now that you've read the long stories, here's the short of it: bargaining is not only a Chinese tradition, or a Midde East tradition, it is a HUMAN tradition, and applies just the same in Meiguo as in Zhongguo. It's all the same, people are people. Just don't let yourself be walked on.

And as that other guy said, if they aren't willing to sell it to you for a price you are willing to pay, just walk away. who cares? Get it elsewhere. If you can't, then you are willing to pay this vendor's price, right?

 

Yours,

Jeff (proud and loving husband of April).

[Mick]

Li had her first meal in an American Chinese restaurant today. It was a real international affair. The country was American, the food was Chinese, and the restaurant operators were Korean. Go figure.

 

Acutally, the food was great and Li remarked she liked it better than most Chinese restaurants in Shantou.

 

So did I.

[tonado]

Li had her first meal in an American Chinese restaurant today. It was a real international affair. The country was American, the food was Chinese, and the restaurant operators were Korean. Go figure.

 

Acutally, the food was great and Li remarked she liked it better than most Chinese restaurants in Shantou.

 

So did I.

Mick,

 

Your wife is already Americanized. Watch out for the fatty American food.