3rd Party Correspondence

[PJ]

I've been reading a lot of posts lately and it got me thinking.

 

I think the whole 3rd party correspondence is absolutely, positively ridiculous. It reminds me of the Salem Witch Trials.

 

Does anyone else feel the same?

 

There has to be some sort of accountability for the 3rd party who is making the accusation.

 

There is an Amendment that states that one has the right to face his or her accuser. I believe this Amendment is there to prevent such things as bearing false witness due to a personal grudge, envy, or spite.

 

I'm a big fan of the Constitution. Personally I think even after all these years, it is still a very good foundation. I would think that the spirit of the Constitution and Amendments should be somehow incorporated into the process of granting US Visas.

 

I think I've probably posted something like this before, and sorry if I'm beating a dead horse, but it's just one of things that bothers me.

[Randy W]

It gives anyone the ability to screw up the petitioner/benificiary's lives for any reason whatsover - jealousy, revenge, viciousness. I haven't seen the likes of that since high school.

[yuehan123]

Trouble is this kind of snitching doesn't appear to rise to the level of Amendment protections. But, it does beg the question why, and under what levels of verification, a 3rd party informant's allegations are given enough credence to de-rail an application.

[johnxiaoying]

I guess the collective wisdom of the consulate is to believe these third party correspondences by Chinese citizens are only in the best interest to protect the United States of America from illegal immigrants and that there could be no other devious reason.

 

It's absurd they treat this junk as highly classified intelligence.

[longstrangetrip]

has anyone talked to guangzhou about the policy/procedure that they take on 3rd party correspondences(3pc)? It would seem that they are not going to ignore such letters, so it would be good to know their policies so when we are injured parties we know what we are up against and more importantly what GUZ expects us to do to overcome this evidence in the case that it shows up.

 

Any consulate officials willing to comment?

[frank1538]

I am not about to defend a consulate that uses unfounded/unsubstantiated third party correspondence as a basis for actually denying a visa application. While such may raise a flag, just like lack of phone records, inability to communicate, etc., without more, it shouldn't be used to deny.

 

On the constitutional question, I may be wrong but the 6th Amendment relates to criminal matters and doesn't apply to civil matters such as visa processing. Also remember, under US laws, the granting of a visa is a privilege, not a right.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

One of the things you hear many Americans say that have been fortunate enough to avoid the United States justice system:

 

"Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law"

 

Virtually all Attorneys having clients accused and charged in the US legal system are aware of the permanent damage that can be done to one's life regardless whether they are proven guilty or innocent. There are few reprecussions to someone making a false allegation against another. Unless the one that makes the false allegation admits to lying for the purpose of doing harm, there is nothing that can be done. The only recourse for the whose life was damaged is to file a civil suit and attempt to recover monetary damages.

 

Until the US justice system begins prosecuting those that make false allegations, nothing, but nothing can be done. This is very unlikely however because the perception is that the justice system wants to provide a safe environment for people to rat on evil-doers. Don't you love that word....

 

Problem is, anyone that gets upset with another can make an allegation. Each and every allegation must be investigated.

[Stone]

has anyone talked to guangzhou about the policy/procedure that they take on 3rd party correspondences(3pc)?  It would seem that they are not going to ignore such letters, so it would be good to know their policies so when we are injured parties we know what we are up against and more importantly what GUZ expects us to do to overcome this evidence in the case that it shows up. 

 

Any consulate officials willing to comment?

183093[/snapback]

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13283

[artmill4]

has anyone talked to guangzhou about the policy/procedure that they take on 3rd party correspondences(3pc)?  It would seem that they are not going to ignore such letters, so it would be good to know their policies so when we are injured parties we know what we are up against and more importantly what GUZ expects us to do to overcome this evidence in the case that it shows up. 

 

Any consulate officials willing to comment?

183093[/snapback]

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13283

183106[/snapback]

PJ. No 1 person. Cool. You have been involved for more than 13 years. The changes you must have seen over these years must be dramatic. Thank you for staying involved. Until I saw this post I had never thought about the possibility of there being a No. 1 person. Everything has a start.

 

I cannot address the legal question concerning this awful 3rd party correspondence because I don’t know anything about it. I have thought about the question though.

 

My only objective in being involved with Guz or any other immigration office is to get my wife here. Since I don’t have any control over what some small minded person might say about my wife. I hope I would respond in this manner if this horrid 3rd party correspondence had come up. I hope I could look at the person and have no reaction at all. Poker face deluxe. I hope I could respond with, “Ok. What do I need to do to deal with the correspondence?” Sure it would feel like someone sticking a needle in me but NO one would see me sweat. I would like to go and do a dance with a key on this person’s car. After a few minutes I would remember my objective is to get my wife here. Ok………what’s next? I want this little Chinese woman in China to be a little Chinese woman in America.

 

Smiles

 

Gene

[tonymasiello]

On the constitutional question, I may be wrong but the 6th Amendment relates to criminal matters and doesn't apply to civil matters such as visa processing.  Also remember, under US laws, the granting of a visa is a privilege, not a right.183094[/snapback]

Well said! The first thought I had when I read the topic.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

On the constitutional question, I may be wrong but the 6th Amendment relates to criminal matters and doesn't apply to civil matters such as visa processing.  Also remember, under US laws, the granting of a visa is a privilege, not a right.183094[/snapback]

Well said! The first thought I had when I read the topic.

184287[/snapback]

Amendment VI

 

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

 

Criminal. Pretty tough to prove criminal intent against the US government....

Edited January 19, 2006 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[ameriken]

I really dont have much of a problem with the TPC's, except for the manner in which they are handled. If a TPC is recieved, assuming there is some time before the interview, why it is so difficult to notify the applicant and petitioner, so they can come prepared to the interview, or even reschedule the interview if necessary. I think the biggest problem is making all the arrangements to come to GZ for an interview, then in 60-seconds being handed a blue slip, in which case the couple likely must invest the $$$ and time needed to come back to GZ and overcome.

 

If a VO is just going to say no, come back with overcome evidence, then why not just "blue slip" the applicant before the interview and save everyone some time and money (including the consulates time of two interviews)?

 

I also remember a post where the petitioner was not even allowed to see the TPC when they came to the consulate to talk with a VO.

 

I think we all know it is a legitimate concern to the consulate. It is just a nightmare as to how they are handled and how the couple is treated in the process.

Edited January 19, 2006 by ameriken (see edit history)

[Randy W]

I think we all know it is a legitimate concern to the consulate. It is just a nightmare as to how they are handled and how the couple is treated in the process. 

184353[/snapback]

 

 

No we don't know that it is a legitimate concern! Why would anyone who didn't have an axe to grind take the time to write a letter/email detailing their concerns about a visa application?

[ameriken]

I think we all know it is a legitimate concern to the consulate. It is just a nightmare as to how they are handled and how the couple is treated in the process. 

184353[/snapback]

 

 

No we don't know that it is a legitimate concern! Why would anyone who didn't have an axe to grind take the time to write a letter/email detailing their concerns about a visa application?

184356[/snapback]

Randy, considering there is visa fraud and abuse, I would think a TPC would serve well for the situations where the applicant is not serious about the relationship and has ulterior motives for wanting to come to the US....

[Randy W]

Randy, considering there is visa fraud and abuse, I would think a TPC would serve well for the situations where the applicant is not serious about the relationship and has ulterior motives for wanting to come to the US....

184358[/snapback]

 

 

It would be interesting to be able to judge how much of the third party correspondence is legitimate, and how much is sour grapes from a vengeful aquaintance or a casual misunderstanding by someone.

 

I don't think we have any feedback on this.

 

Ken, this whole third-party issue leaves me with the impression that someone could derail your visa application by writing a nasty-gram to the folks at GUZ. That is not a healthy state of affairs.