Tourist visa denied

[david_dawei]

I think the same complaint is often lodged in our Massachusetts town here.. they turn away a lot of business to 'preserve' the New England feel of the town... so as a result, the neighboring towns take those business with open arms.. and not just the economy but the government enjoys it (Tax revenue).

 

That having been said, in the military they also spoke of the 'millions' spent on functions (parades, ceremonies, etc).. well, those people were going to work at the base whether at a ceremony or sitting on their butt... yet, it seems that they always want to put a price tag on people when they participated in the ceremony but not when they do their day to day work..

 

We are a money driven society... as well as a victim centric society.. seems we want to cry foul if we don't get the money we expect we should get... and then label with 'billions' of dollars... This is non-existent money mind you...

 

Why can't we be a third world country and learn some lessons the old fashion way?

[david_dawei]

edit out...

[david_dawei]

It's a scam, and I wouldn't spend another cent on it.  Given that my in laws already have a negative opinion of the USA, I can't even imagine how they would react to getting rejected not once but twice for a tourist visa.  Just imagine if I went to China to live with my wife, and the chinese govt kept taking $100 from my parents only to tell them in a 120 second interview "sorry, you can't come here".

 

Contacting the higher-ups is the best route, in my opinion.  Otherwise it's just a money pit.  Why give out a visa when someone will keep coming back and paying $100 for an "interview"?

well, one could get one on the black market, but talk about a scam !

[skibum]

Today I received a letter from Senator Allard's office. His is the office that solved our black hole problem. They enclosed a release form so they could check on things. I also sent them a copy of the letter I sent yesterday to Ms.Harty.

The letter had the usual stuff about not being able to tell the Gods at the consulates what to do, but I hope something will come of it.

[NicolaNSam]

So Frank do you think this is like buying lottery tickets? Expensive tickets at $100.00 per attempt. It would be interesting to know if those who succeeded after multiple attempts added critical information each time until they had what the visa section wants or did it go unchanged and after you pay enough you get through.

 

No matter how it is done it is a very disheartening procedure for visiting family.

I agree with your questioning this deeper... I don't see multiple attempts as improving the cause.. just a timing issue, like what age your at, etc... I have known some who just don't get the tourist visa, but their older parents do...

I was thinking of NicolaNSam's experience. If I recall, his in-laws tried three times before they got their visas. I don't know whether it was persistence or additional documentation that did the trick. I have read of others who were intially denied only to get their visas after several more attempts. Again, I don't know if it was persistence or documentaion, or the color of the VO's socks that tipped the scales.

125067[/snapback]

I'm very sorry to reply so late to this Frank,

 

Your absolutely right in saying the more times you try the better chance. They don't even look at anything you provide them. Nicola's grandparents are old old old and they really didn't have much assets or money but they got their visa through persistence and maybe a little more orginization on my part the last time they were interviewed. We knew it would be hardest for her grandparents to visit us so we tried for them first. We are now going to try for Nicola's parents.

I guess this is a long overdue story but I just didn't want to relive it before. Her grandparents failed twice before with little questions asked. First time they asked how long Nicola lived in the U.S. and they said a year...Denied. That was it! Nothing else looked at nothing. The second time They where asked their income and both work but they first mentioned they both have retirements for life (Like less than $100 a month) and before they could finish their sentence and explain their income from their jobs.....DENIED!

It was VERY aggravating and nothing was looked at. We called our lawyer and she called the consolate a million times with no reply. I asked if we could sue the consolate for letting other people in that had less assets and family and she said we "Could" sue them but nothing would come of it and it would be a waste of money. The consolate finally sent a letter saying they really really took time looking at their documents during the interviews (BS MAJOR BS) and that the officer saw that they didn't have enough assets or strong ties linking them to China.

Well, lets talk about the successful interview. We got to China this time for the interview. I made a really really organized front page for their documents and linked assets with paper work (If anyone wants I still have that frontpage and can post it if you guys want to see it, If I post it now this Post will be too long.) They swear that the VO didn't look at a thing I prepared but if she even glanced at it for two seconds it showed a lot of organized thingies that i'm sure they like to see. We got there early early probably an hour before anyone else. I waited in line with them and was told I couldn't go inside. I had previously escorted a factory owner I dealt with during his interview and told the guards I can go in. They kept saying I can't and I kept saying I can. I told them I have done it before and they said the rules must have changed. When I escorted the factory last time I had asked the consolate if I could and they had said that it was okay and if I had problems ask the guards to come inside and verify it so we told the guards to verify it.

They told us to step aside and they would be back. an hour early and everyone was passing us up. We waited about 30 mins and they came back saying everyone inside said I can't be there for the interveiw but he insisted that they are old and I keep pushing to be there because I said they have hearing problems. I think the guard just misunderstood me but I didn't argue. He said I could go inside with them. So, in line we waited like cattle. Guards were very impatient with people and it was HOT. Once inside I handed them the paperwork to be assigned a VO line number and they got yelled at for turning in english documents when they don't speak english. I was standing behind them and explained that I filled everything out correctly and they appologized and gave us a window number. I think this is very important because if your SO's family doesn't speak english it seems they would make them go back outside and fill the form out in Chinese which is fair because If I wasn't there God knows who outside incorrectly filled the forms out in English for them.

So we wait in line for their interview and my heart is pounding. We finally get up to the window and the girl interviewing us was def in a good mood. The girl in front of us was a manager of a company selling shower heads. She wanted to go to America for a show. She didn't seem to have much documents and she was the sterio typcial reject. Young, and probably single and didn't own the company and for God sakes it was a shower head factory! They gave her the visa. There were two people behind us. A professor from Guilin coincidentally going to Baton Rouge LA to study and he got his visa, and a girl that was managing a bedroom factory who got her visa. So as a side note yes it is buying a $100 lottery ticket and all four in a row got a grand slam ok from the visa girl!

We walked up to the counter and she told me I couldn't be there. I said yes I could I asked and she again said I can't be there and please go wait outside the building. Well I realized that i'm arguing with the person deciding their visa and politly said "Yes I can be here but I respect your decision to not want me here (With a really pretty smile HAHAH). I just told her that the front page was prepared by me and it links all their strong ties to China. I walked outside and felt like the biggest loser. Well her grandparents did come out saying they both got the visa. They have very little and are both old. This is just like anything in life. The losers are those who quit. I kept saying after each post that we were going to reapply until they got it and I meant it. Its just how good the VO feels and that's it. They were again asked how long Nicola was in the U.S. and about their income. That's it. Hope this helps. Wish us luck for her parents and its your own faults if you give up with one, two, or ten rejections. Its aggravating but I swear its worth every min of the trip her grandparents had to America. It was the best time of their lives.

[HanLi]

good post, great pesistance... I would like to see the front page...

[NicolaNSam]

good post, great pesistance... I would like to see the front page...

156520[/snapback]

I will keep all the numbers accurate on the frontpage so people can see how little assets and income they had. The things I change will be replaced by **** Hope this helps some people:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Grandmother Grandfather Name: Chen *** Name:

D.O.B.: **-**-1936 DOB: **-**-1928

Passport No: ***** Passport No:

Chinese ID No:** Chinese ID No:**

 

 

Strong Ties to China

 

PROPERTY OWNED AND FULLY PAID FOR:

 

1)120.6 Sq Meter Land and Building: Two story, five bedroom, 3.5 bathroom house located in ***, Zhongshan.

China Government ID#***** (See Attachment 1 for Notarized Document)

2)74 Sq Meter Land and Building: Two bedroom one bathroom apartment

China Government ID#*** (See Attachment 2 for Notarized Document)

3)25 Sq Meter Land and Building: Previously used for their bakery. Currently rented out to a tenant.

China Government ID#*** (See Attachment 3 for Notarized Document)

4)182.25 Sq Meter Land: Located in ***, Shiqi. Built a six dorm apartment complex on 2-6-05 individually rented out to a clothing factory for their employees stay.

China Government ID#****(See Attachment 4 for Notarized Document)

 

SOURCES OF INCOME:

 

1)850 RMB Per Month: Rental of their apartment (See Attachment 2)

2)350 RMB Per Month: Rental of store (See Attachment 3)

3)720 RMB Per Month: Total Rental of six apartments (See Attachment 4 for land)

4)820 RMB Per Month: Average income from Grocery Store owned and operated by Chen **** (See Attachment 5 For Current Business License) (See Attachments 6&7 for Photos of Store)

5)500 RMB Per Month: Average Income from commodities sold (including fish, corn, rice, pumpkins, and other vegetables) on 250 SQ Meters of rented land operated by MR.**** (See Attachments 8-11 for Photos of MR.***)

6)680 RMB Per Month: Chen *** Retirement Pension for life from working at previous company for more than 20 years. (See Attachment 12&13)

7)770 RMB Per Month: MR.**** Retirement Pension for life from working at a previous company for more than 26 years (See Attachment 14&15)

 

FAMILY TIES IN CHINA

1)Six Grandchildren (See photo from Attachment 16&17)

2)Five Children (See photo from Attachment 16&17)

3)Chen *** has three step brothers and one step sister living in Guangzhou

4)MR*** has five brothers and one sister living in Zhongshan

 

$5,200 CURRENT MONEY IN JOINT BANK ACCOUNTS AS OF 4-6-2005

1)1,000 USD

2)21,750 RMB ($2633.17 USD)

3)12,511 HKD ($1563.88 USD)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

That's all the front page consisted of. Please remember the income and rental numbers were estimates and only their retirement numbers were fixed. Also, each asset they owned like their 5 bedroom house were listeds but no estimated value was given because the value of their homes were meager. I think the 6 apartments cost around $7,000 to built, the house is worth about $12,000 because they built it themselves, the store is also worth very little but we listed every single thing they owned just to show clearly every strong tie they have. Please also notice the bottom where the two of them had a total savings of $5,200. That's $2,600 a person. I also listed every damn member of their family as you can see. I think they had a total net worth of under $50,000 but again as everything was listed and organized it filled up a whole page. I also organized all the notirized documents that we got from the government and wrote on the top right hand corner Attachment 1, Attachment 2, that way they were easily refrenced.

Edited September 24, 2005 by NicolaNSam (see edit history)

[skibum]

Sam, It still seems to me that the secret for success is to have another child in China. Has anyones parents with just one child gotten a visa?

 

We got an e-mail from the Shanghai Consul General yesterday. I read it as the same old s--- but Yirong thinks that it means Mom shouldtry again. We will see.

[NicolaNSam]

Sam, It still seems to me that the secret for success is to have another child in China. Has anyones parents with just one child gotten a visa?

 

We got an e-mail from the Shanghai  Consul General yesterday. I read it as the same old s--- but Yirong thinks that it means Mom shouldtry again. We will see.

156631[/snapback]

I really can't say for sure what the method is but with as many people as they deal with everyday I don't think there is a process. If they had one VO per 3 people each day okay then they can look at things and ask questions and prepare for the interview the day before but its just too many people and I think its all gut feelings and whatever dudes. Maybe they will give them the visa next interview maybe they won't. Maybe they don't check anything and maybe they do. We do know that its a 100% sure they cannot get a visa without trying again. We also know that its 100% sure that it doesn't hurt them if they go back again and again they could care less if you failed before. That's just how I look at it. Keep going back in line and let them tell you no till the one day all the moons line up in the universe and they stop being A$$es about it.

I also forgot to say the furniture factory that I invited to come to America for a business visa failed SO many times. He has been trying to get his business visa for the last 5 years while his twin brother had his visa years ago. They just kept telling him no. He tried at least 10 times and finally he got it. Its expensive but don't give up.

[Randy W]

That is really sick when they charge these people $100 each time just to hear them say "No".

[bubbafred10]

Typical American haughtiness.

 

Here are some perspectives from Chinaconnection@yahoogroups.com.

 

"Your editorial sent shivers up my spine. Over the last few weeks, the Flying Tigers (what is left of them) were honored in China and were invited to many cities for tributes by the Chinese people. I have learned more about American history watching CCTV than I ever learned with American history books in school here. I have been shocked about the closeness of Americans and Chinese people years ago. How in the world did such anamosity occur over the last 50 years? I want to thank the Chinese people for appreciating our aid to them during the Japanese occupation. I have not even mentioned the help that Doolittle received when he had to bail out over China. Some of this old history brings tears to my eyes"....Jim

 

Thomas wrote:

 

I wish I had seen the documentary! Currently re-reading the book, "Stilwell and the American Experience in China, 1911-45", by Barbara Tuchman. It's a big 'un but very readable and really is an excellent examination of the title. It also gives much insight to the character of the personalities of those times. Stilwell was not what one would call a funny guy, but his rather dry sense of humor is always apparent in his writings. He knew China like few others, his travels in the country, extensive and unescorted, gave him insights on the people that benefited all. Both nations were fortunate to have him there. His premature death and the McCarthy Era need to assign blame for "losing China" have probably kept him from being viewed in this country as the great general that he was. Strongly recommend the book. Check FetchBook.info for availability if you are interested. New paperbacks are about $10, used hardcovers, with photographs not in the paperback, are even less!

 

I was also astounded that he is still so well known in China. When I asked Wendy if she knew of him, she replied that he is very well regarded. And in the US, he is almost unknown...

 

Jim wrote:

I uploaded a photo of where General Stilwell's headquarters were in

Chongqing. He spent a great deal of time in Yunnan Province training

Mao's troops (CPC)and arguing with Cheng (KMT). There was a marvelous documentary on CCTV-9 this past week on General Stilwell. He is still revered in China.....Jim

[skibum]

Didn't FDR bring Stilwell home for something he did or did not do.

 

I do not remember any anamosity that existed between China and the US other than the fact that they were red and for that reason we supported Formosa. During the Cold War, both countries worried about the USSR.

 

I know that personally I have always thought well of China and in school I cannot remember learning anything bad about China.

 

As I recall, the Flying Tigers got screwed by our govt when they wanted to join the US Army AF. They were not a part of our military and after Pearl Harbor, they wanted to join.

[john90]

Sam, It still seems to me that the secret for success is to have another child in China. Has anyones parents with just one child gotten a visa?

 

Skibum,

 

Sorry to hear about your mother in law denial for a second time. Don't worry, if she keeps trying she will get it. My mother inlaw got her tourist visa a few days ago. I thought she had about 10 percent chance of getting on the first try because she was divorced, retired, and had only 1 child (my wife in US). We were preparing her mom not to worry if she receives a rejection because she can always reapply.

 

Anyway, the American VO actually looked through some of the pictures of her and her daughter she brought in to the interview. He also read the invitation letter which I had written.

 

I included another letter from a priest my mother knew who vouched for my mother and the fact that my mother in law's only intention was to visit us in the US and return.

 

 

My mother in law brought with her property deed to her apartment and a small business. She didn't have much money left in the bank after divorcing her husband of 20 + years recenlty. She also brought lot of pictures of her and her daughter, but I don't know if they had a postive or negative impact. Some of the Chinese workers at the US consulate kept insisting my mother in law looked too young to have such an old daughter...

Edited September 30, 2005 by john90 (see edit history)