syzygy

Thanks again to everybody for your input. Yes, I did keep the originals separate and showed them when asked. The person I talked with conferred with (I guess) her supervisor 2 or 3 times before saying they were keeping the originals pending an investigation. Recently I asked about the disposition of the older petition. I was told it had expired and that all files had been destroyed, but obviously they still had my wife's ex-husband's name and the case # on file, so who knows what is still there for them to check? I wonder why, if Beijing does so much, the interviews can't be done in Beijing as well as Guangzhou?

Thanks to everybody for your replies. We took the originals to be compared to the copies. I thought the originals would be returned as soon as they saw that the copies were the same as the originals. So I was somewhat surprised. I was also surprised that there was the possibility of being interviewed at Beijing. My understanding of the process was that after checking to see that the I-130 and I-130a were properly filled in, and that all necessary documents or copies were included, the petition would be sent to Guangzhou, and we would be instructed later how to proceed. My wife's previous American husband submitted his petition in the USA and included no evidence of their marriage. The petition was accepted, and he was informed that further instructions would be sent shortly. At this point I believe the process stopped. I didn't include any evidence of our marriage beyond the required documentation. Since we have been married almost 4 years I thought it was unnecessary, especially since my wife's previous husband's petition was accepted without any additional evidence. My assumption was that any evidence needed would be provided by us at Guangzhou when my wife was interviewed. I have been worried for over 4 years that the fact that my wife had been married to another American and had been sponsored by him for a visa would be a problem. That was why I was troubled by the fact that Beijing retained the originals of the marriage and divorce documents, and said that we might be interviewed in Beijing. This was a different process than what I had expected, and I asked my question here in order to discover whether it was SOP.

My wife and I submitted the I-130 petition and I-130a at the Beijing Embassy recently. I had assumed that all Beijing would do would be to check to see if the forms had been properly filled in and the necessary documents and copies had been included. However, they retained the originals of the marriage certificates and divorce certificates (Chinese), and told us that they would be investigating our case, and that we might be asked to provide more evidence to prove the genuineness of our marriage, and might even be interviewed. This was a surprise to me, as I had assumed that sort of thing would only be done by the Guangzhou consulate. My wife had previously been married to another American citizen, and he began the immigration visa process which was not completed. I notice that the new edition of the I-130 petition (p.5, Part 4, #10) does ask "Has anyone else ever filed a petition for the beneficiary?"...which wasn't asked before, if I remember correctly. So evidently the US government is being more careful of such cases...something I have worried about for years. When I asked what the process would involve, I was given a very vague answer...really no answer at all. And I was told that the process might take up to three months to complete before the petition was either accepted and sent on to Guangzhou or denied. Can anyone tell me what Beijing will do as part of its "investigation", and whether it is SOP to retain marriage and divorce documents? I have asked in another thread if I had cause to worry that my wife's previous marriage to another American would cause problems, but didn't receive much response. The fact is that her previous marriage, on the surface at least, does seem sort of shady. Is the retention of the marriage and divorce documents a sign that we will in fact have a problem, or is it just standard procedure? Thanks in advance for your help.

Well...I said I was dense. In my defense though, sometimes the terms used are a little ambiguous, like "passport" (which country?), or "copy" (an original document or a reproduction/photocopy?). Plus I am a little paranoid after reading horror stories about what happens if every "i" isn't dotted or "t" crossed. And I probably tend to overthink things as well, and see meanings where they don't exist. I have since read some new information, now (I think) understand what is involved, and learned that I can get the certified copy of my wife's passport I need at the Shenyang Consulate, which is much more convenient than going to Beijing. I'd rather just need to focus on the I-130 while in Beijing if possible. Thanks again for your help...and your patience.

I wish I had seen this a few days ago. It answered so many questions I have been asking. I thought I had done a thorough search here, but I somehow missed this. Great post! Thanks!

I am probably being pretty dense here, and I'm sure everybody else reading this knows the answer, but am I know I am being dense here, and I'm sure everybody else reading this knows the answer, but is the passport we are talking about here an American or a Chinese passport? And if it is a Chinese passport, is it enough to submit the certified copy of the passport rather than the original when applying for an ITIN?

Thanks for the great reply! And thanks for the related link. It was late and I was tired, so I probably didn't research the topic as I should have. Sorry. I'm glad to know that the original passport will not be kept and that I can use it when I apply for the ITIN. I discovered that when trying to efile you also need an ITIN for your spouse even when not filing jointly. My wife is a Chinese national, lives in China, is not filing a return (either on her own or jointly with me), has no taxable income, is not being claimed as a dependent by me, and is not claiming any tax benefits, but still needs an ITIN!

When I file the I-130 petition, I know I need to show both original passports, as well as copies of the biographic pages. Will my Chinese wife's original passport be retained at that time, or will it be returned to her? I will need it to apply for an ITIN for her later. Also, can anybody explain what this means: " Your wife needs to apply for ITIN with IRS. If she needs her Chinese passport to be certified, please make an online appointment with ACS for notary service." What is meant by a "certified" Chinese passport? Is the original passport in some way "certified" or authenticated, or is a certified/authenticated copy issued? Or must a "certified" copy of a Chinese passport be obtained from the Chinese Government?

Form I-130, Part C, 18.requests "Address in the United States where your relative intends to live" I am a permanent resident of the PRC. Although I own a home in the USA, it is currently being rented out for income, and I do not have a residence in the USA at the present time. I do intend to return to the USA shortly and rent an apartment. That being the case, how should I answer the question?

Yeah, 3 years of marriage...most of it together in China, God Help Me!...should count for something! So you finally learned your lesson after two tries? Didn't you ever hear "The third time's the charm"? LOL! A broken bed? As the character in "The Quiet Man" said: "Impetuous!" BTW, my wife has 3 photos of her and her ex in bed, in their clothes, unsmiling. I wonder what the visa interviewer would make of that? Get rid of the pictures. I haven't actually seen them. She described them to me a couple of days ago, after much persuasion. Knowing how embarrassed she is by this previous marriage, she may get rid of them herself. I thought they might actually prove the marriage was bona fide, and be useful at her interview. But a couple in bed, clothed and unsmiling, isn't very indicative of a true marriage. Or maybe it is, given enough time together!

Yeah, 3 years of marriage...most of it together in China, God Help Me!...should count for something! So you finally learned your lesson after two tries? Didn't you ever hear "The third time's the charm"? LOL! A broken bed? As the character in "The Quiet Man" said: "Impetuous!" BTW, my wife has 3 photos of her and her ex in bed, in their clothes, unsmiling. I wonder what the visa interviewer would make of that?

When you file the petition with a USCIS office in China (either Guangzhou or Beijing). it is processed by the overseas office and then sent directly to the Dept. of State in Guangzhou. This is MUCH faster than filing the same petition in the U.S., where it has to also go through the National Visa Center, or NVC. To do this, you must LIVE in China. It is known as DCF or Direct Consular Filing. (duplicate posting removed) Can you define "Much faster"? I know that trying to estimate timelines here is a tricky business, so I don't expect a lot of specifics. I am going to be in the USA for several months. Do you think it would be a wash if I submitted my petition then, or waited six months or so and did it when I return to China? Thanks for your patience.

Which is faster: filing a petition for a greencard/immigration visa for a spouse in China (the petitioner and beneficiary both living in China) or the petitioner filing in the USA while the beneficiary is living in China?

As I've said, you can marry anyone you wish, for any REASON you wish. There is no scam here, since she did not receive immigration benefits through the marriage. Your reasons 1) through 6) went away when they divorced. Anyone can make a mistake. She has the advantage of having recognized hers. "Your reasons 1) through 6) went away when they divorced. Anyone can make a mistake. She has the advantage of having recognized hers." I may add, I suspect what finally drove her to divorce him was his increasingly violent behavior, which frightened her, and led her to believe he might graduate to actual physical abuse after they returned to America, where she would be isolated and unprotected. Parenthetically, IMHO, she would never have gotten a visa, because the marriage had so many characteristics of a "sham" marriage, but she wasn't sophisticated enough to realize that (and of course, I may be wrong). This added fact (which is partly speculative) may shed more light on the case and on her motivations and decision mking process. Her "decision making process" is not in question. You need to concentrate on your (and her) present relationship and visa process. I apologize for saying this, but your obsession with her previous relationship seems excessive. But of course, I only know you through what you've posted here - it's up to you and her to sort that out. You are exactly right. I'll try my best to "shut up" and "let it go"! Thanks again for your sane comments!

As I've said, you can marry anyone you wish, for any REASON you wish. There is no scam here, since she did not receive immigration benefits through the marriage. Your reasons 1) through 6) went away when they divorced. Anyone can make a mistake. She has the advantage of having recognized hers. "Your reasons 1) through 6) went away when they divorced. Anyone can make a mistake. She has the advantage of having recognized hers." I may add, I suspect what finally drove her to divorce him was his increasingly violent behavior, which frightened her, and led her to believe he might graduate to actual physical abuse after they returned to America, where she would be isolated and unprotected. Parenthetically, IMHO, she would never have gotten a visa, because the marriage had so many characteristics of a "sham" marriage, but she wasn't sophisticated enough to realize that (and of course, I may be wrong). This added fact (which is partly speculative) may shed more light on the case and on her motivations and decision mking process.

Thanks again. I know I have tried your patience, for which please accept my apologies. You are right: it is all needless worry; it all depends on the final decision of the USCIS. None of us can predict that. I guess I was just trying to get some sense of how much I should be worried, if at all. As I said, from the moment I first learned of another American husband, I began to worry...and the more I learned, the more serious my worries became. But it is out of my hands. Thanks again.

Two issues here. 1) she and her previous husband did begin the petitioning process, although it wasn't completed (as far as I know; she didn't get a green card and didn't come to the USA); and 2) she and I were emailing (as friends) while she was married to her first (Chinese), abusive husband, and her second, American husband (also somewhat abusive, at least threatening), although I was not aware she was married at the time. At that point we were just "friends". We married about 1 year after her divorce from her American husband; she married her previous American husband very shortly after her divorce from her Chinese husband (although they had been separated for some time, I believe.) But in trying to determine whether our marriage is bona fide, wouldn't it be reasonable for the USCIS to look into past marriages to Americans, especially since they at least began the petitioning process, in order tp determine a pattern of behavior? I am sorry if I am beating a dead horse here, but everything I have read leads me to think that the USCIS deems every marriage to be a "sham" unless and until it is proven otherwise, and are glad to grab hold of any evidence to the contrary. Thanks for your responses and your patience. BTW, she IS a rank-and-file member of the CCP.

Under U.S. law, you can marry anyone you want, whether she's a scammer or not. Three years of marriage and living together should erase any doubt as to whether the marriage itself is a scam. You don't provide any details about "many of the signs of a "sham" marriage", so it's impossible for us to judge. You may wish to discuss the matter with a good immigrations attorney whom you CAN discuss these details. You may also wish to explore your own feelings about the situation before committing to bringing her to the U.S. Thanks for the reply. I didn't include details because I was trying to be discreet. I have seen online lists of ten or twelve things the government considers "red flags", and her previous marriage displays most of them. Some of them include: 1) petitioner was unemployed and poor; 2) disparity in educational attainment, university (wife) vs high school (husband); 3) difference in race, African-American vs Han Chinese; 4) different social class/background; 5) secret marriage, (wife told very few friends or family members; did not even tell son); 6) marriage soon after a divorce, (wife divorced Chinese husband shortly before marrying her American husband, although they had been separated for some time); 7) and now the fact that she is being petitioned by a second American husband. I guess my main question is to what extent the government will scrutinize the previous marriage, both before and during the interview. As I said, IF the government looks closely into the facts of the marriage, it is a near certainty, IMHO, that they will be very suspicious. Then the question is, will my wife need to prove that the first marriage wasn't a "sham"? THAT will be difficult, again IMHO. And if she can't convince the government that her previous marriage wasn't a "sham", will the government conclude our marriage is a "sham" also? I take your point about my doing some soul searching. But I am convinced my wife was only guilty of extremely poor judgement and naivete, not intending to defraud the US government. After more than three years of marriage I am about as sure of her sincerity as is humanly possible...always admitting that I may be wrong.

My wife was previously married to another American citizen. They began the petitioning process and it proceeded at least to the point where they were informed that the application had been approved and that she would soon receive further instructions (about the interview I assume). I don't know why or how the process was ended, but to my knowledge my wife was never interviewed, and she of course never came to the USA. Later she and her husband divorced. Before we were married all I knew was that she had been married to another American and had divorced him. From the first I was afraid that the mere fact that she had been married to another American would raise a red flag when we applied for her visa as my wife. After we were married I learned more things about the marriage, divorce, and her husband which made me even more concerned. Without going into all the details, her marriage to her first American husband displays many of the signs of a "sham" marriage. I don't believe it was a "sham" marriage, but I can see why the USCIS might suspect that it was, given the facts. My questions are: 1) will the USCIS investigate the previous marriage in depth; and 2) if the USCIS concludes it was a "sham" marriage (which given their bias I think they might), will they assume that our marriage is fraudulent also? For the record, we have been married for over three years, and have lived together for most of that time in China. I ha​ve​ read a couple of things online​ which lead me to believe that a previous marriage to an American would be a red flag that might trigger scrutiny of the previous marriage, especially since my wife and her then husband had started the petitioning process. My real concern is that if the USCIS looks closely at that marriage, and asks about it at my wife's interview, the facts they would discover might very well convince them that it was a "sham" marriage. As I said, I don't think it was a "sham" (although my wife was guilty of very poor judgment which to this day I don't fully understand), but it certainly has many of the characteristics of a "sham" marriage. It seems to me, that if the USCIS were to be convinced it was a "sham", then they might well conclude ours is a "sham" as well, although living together for three years does seem to indicate a valid marriage. I guess I am a bit paranoid, since everything I have read seems to indicate that the USCIS takes it for granted that everybody petitioning for a visa is trying to defraud the US Government, and that the petitioners are guilty until they can prove they are innocent. That being the case, might not the USCIS explain away the three years we have lived together? I mean, they might rationalize that I am sincere, but that my wife is cynically playing a long game, in hopes of eventually getting a green card. I don't believe that is the case, but given the bias of the USCIS against petitioners, are my fears completely unfounded? I would very much appreciate it if you could give me an opinion concerning this.