Greg.D.

I saw somewhere that there are (normally) 200,000 Chinese in northern Italy, "most working in restaurants". Given the timing with spring festival, I could see lots getting out while they could. Still curious how they are having such a high fatality rate.

Wait, "Scientology critic"? I'm warming up to him a little now. I think it was race-baiting but I also think it was deserved payback for the ccp saying the U. S. owed them an explanation for where it came from. Even though the U. S. is about to get slammed and numbers are down in China, it will probably boomerang and flare up again - esp in China. So people should chill out. Why would the ccp permanently ban wild animal markets if the virus didn't come from there?

I won’t even listen to it. False Rumor spreading on the internet can only work if people indiscriminately click on click bait. Much less watch the whole thing. Not worthy of sharing the same space as a link to the infectious disease preprinted coming out of China. COVID-19 SARS-CoV-2 preprints from medRxiv and bioRxivhttps://connect.medrxiv.org/relate/content/181

I think the new cases inter past week for Taiwan consist of 90% imported. China from time to time is able to make nearly the same claim. I would expect traveler cases and some mini hotspots revealed by lockdown relaxing will be a problem in China for a while. Italy and Spain just going off the rails.

Yeah, I’ve sometimes wondered what bit flipped in her brain to allow that to happen. But, it works for her. I’ll probably start watching it at some point to hear her thesis and take it as far as I feel like.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-media-breakingviews/breakingviews-chinas-news-war-risks-collateral-economic-harm-idUSKBN2151VO Breakingviews - China’s news war risks collateral economic harmHONG KONG (Reuters Breakingviews) - China’s war on U.S. newspapers could backfire economically. Beijing is expelling reporters from the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times and the Washington Post in retaliation for U.S. restrictions on Chinese state media. For foreign investors who are already inclined to discount local financial reporting, it’s another red flag. It also risks further inflating the fake news bubble enveloping President Xi Jinping. China’s Communist Party has long resented what it sees as relentless negativity from Western media. Its complaints aren’t always baseless. But on balance the presence of seasoned operators like the Times, and their extensive reporting on the country, validated China’s importance. It also familiarized investors with the risks and opportunities of a fast-growing economy. American journalists introduced readers to companies they’d never heard of, including e-commerce successes like Alibaba, and chronicled the exciting and dynamic elements of China’s business community. ....... Xi may feel he doesn’t need any of the transparency strings attached to American money. He’s certainly been less tactful than predecessors with multinationals, and reporter expulsions have become common. He’s pushing China’s censorship regime overseas; domestic analysts are being ordered to stay positive. Beijing bears ultimate responsibility for local censorship that arguably aggravated two costly outbreaks in 2019: a swine fever that prompted harsh food price inflation, and Covid-19, now pushing the global economy into recession.

Reprisals? Or, CCP can't take the heat right now? Hurt feelings? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/beijing-pulls-credentials-for-journalists-at-three-us-news-outlets-including-the-post/2020/03/17/22a476d6-686f-11ea-b199-3a9799c54512_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories-2_china-135pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans&itid=hp_hp-more-top-stories-2_china-135pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans Beijing pulls credentials for journalists at three U.S. news outlets, including The PostBy Emily Rauhala March 17, 2020 at 2:24 p.m. MDT Chinese authorities announced Tuesday that U.S. journalists from The Washington Post, the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal will effectively be expelled from the country as part of retaliation for Trump administration limits on U.S.-based Chinese state media. The move widens another rift in U.S.-China relations already strained by trade disputes and questions over how the world’s two biggest economies will recalibrate their ties after the coronavirus pandemic. In a statement published Tuesday, China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs said the three U.S. outlets, plus Voice of America and Time magazine, will be designated as “foreign missions” and must report information about their staff, finance, operation and real estate in China. The statement did not mention pulling credentials for Time and VOA, but it was unclear whether China would take further action. The moves came after the United States took measures in February against Chinese Communist Party-controlled news outlets operating in the United States. Later, China expelled three Wall Street Journal reporters. “I regret China’s decision today to further foreclose the world’s ability to conduct free press operations that frankly would be really good for the Chinese people,” Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told reporters. “This is unfortunate. I hope they’ll reconsider.” The new rules would reshape foreign journalism in China. The statement said that U.S. citizens working for The Post, the Times and the Wall Street Journal, whose press credentials are due to expire before the end of 2020, must hand back their press cards. They will not be able to go to Hong Kong or Macao as a base for work, it said. ....... “The Chinese government’s decision is particularly regrettable because it comes in the midst of an unprecedented global crisis, when clear and reliable information about the international response to covid-19 is essential,” he continued. “Severely limiting the flow of that information, which China now seeks to do, only aggravates the situation,” Baron said. The new rules take aim at some U.S. media outlets but not others. The Associated Press and Bloomberg News have offices in Beijing, for instance, as do major U.S. broadcasters including CNN, ABC, NBC and CBS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2020/03/17/evangelical-leader-denounces-trump-calling-coronavirus-chinese-virus/?hpid=hp_hp-banner-low_evangelical-915am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans&itid=hp_hp-banner-low_evangelical-915am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans Evangelical leader denounces Trump for calling coronavirus the ‘Chinese virus’March 17, 2020 at 4:00 a.m. MDT Mr. President: This is not acceptable. Calling it the "Chinese virus" only instigates blame, racism, and hatred against Asians - here and abroad. We need leadership that speaks clearly against racism; Leadership that brings the nation and world together. Not further divides. https://t.co/wPTcnoO5QU — Eugene Cho (@EugeneCho) March 17, 2020 After President Trump called the novel coronavirus “the Chinese Virus” in a tweet Monday, an evangelical leader responded by calling the label “unacceptable,” warning that it “instigates blame, racism, and hatred against Asians.” On Monday, Trump tweeted his confidence in American industries before calling the coronavirus “the Chinese Virus.” “The United States will be powerfully supporting those industries, like Airlines and others, that are particularly affected by the Chinese Virus. We will be stronger than ever before!” In a reply, Eugene Cho, a former pastor of a Seattle church who was just tapped to begin leading a large Christian nonprofit called Bread for the World in July, suggested that calling the coronavirus the “Chinese virus” could be dangerous. Cho said in an interview with The Washington Post late Monday that he was not speaking on behalf of the Washington-based hunger- and poverty-fighting organization and is still living in Seattle, one of the epicenters of the outbreaks in the United States. “Mr. President: This is not acceptable,” he wrote in his tweet. “Calling it the “Chinese virus” only instigates blame, racism, and hatred against Asians — here and abroad. We need leadership that speaks clearly against racism; Leadership that brings the nation and world together. Not further divides.” Cho, who was born in Korea and immigrated to the United States when he was 6, said he knows three people who have been assaulted in the past couple of weeks, incidents he believes are tied to the spread of the coronavirus. “I can’t speak for all Asians,” he said. “I know for myself and my family, we’re not just contending with a health crisis. … There might be backlash verbal and physical.”

With different spin, both say the same thing: that was a pounding. Though, scmp acknowledges recovery is made more difficult by the global economic funk. I would hate hate to be in the prediction business right now, unless being wrong isn’t a problem.

Two Emergency Room Doctors Are in Critical Condition With Coronavirus The hospitalizations sharpen fears that the nation’s front-line medical workers could be uniquely vulnerable, a health care organization said. By Karen Weise March 15, 2020 SEATTLE — Two emergency medicine doctors, in New Jersey and Washington State, are in critical condition as a result of coronavirus, reinforcing concerns that the nation’s front-line medical workers are becoming especially vulnerable to the virus, the American College of Emergency Physicians said. “A lot of us think that despite everything we do, we will probably be exposed,” said Dr. William Jaquis, the chair of the group. Still, he said, “The first reported case certainly sends a shock wave through the community.” Emergency rooms represent a busy intake point for hospitals, where patients come in with symptoms but no diagnosis. As the coronavirus spreads during the typical flu season, emergency physicians are triaging large numbers of patients around the country with symptoms that could be the virus. “As compared to anyone else at a hospital, you are operating with the most incomplete information,” said Dr. Angela Fusaro, an emergency doctor in Atlanta. One of the ill physicians, a man in his 40s, is a doctor at EvergreenHealth Medical Center in Kirkland, Wash., a hospital near Seattle which has seen one of the largest concentrations of cases in the United States. “EvergreenHealth is providing care for one of our physicians who has a confirmed case of Covid-19. He is in critical condition but stable,” the hospital said in a statement. Dr. Jaquis said it appeared that the doctor had access to adequate protective equipment. “This was an area with an outbreak, so they were expecting and prepared. That obviously makes us more nervous.” The other physician, a doctor in his 70s in Paterson, N.J., was also in isolation in intensive care. The doctor led his institution’s emergency preparedness and was admitted to the hospital several days ago with upper respiratory problems, the physicians’ group said. The nationwide shortage of N-95 protective masks has been concerning to doctors, who increasingly feel the need to use them in more situations to stay safe, Dr. Jaquis said.

I just got word I can telework. Still I’ll go in on Monday for a meeting and to see what’s going on. I can imagine a few scenarios for how it unfolds in the U. S. It’s not that we don’t want to be China - we don’t want to be Italy: a modern system which had advance warning and, yet, 368 died from Covid-19 yesterday. Re mom staying home with the baby: agreed about no price on the job that only the mother can do with her child.

If you manage it right: mostly English in the house. mom staying home with the child is worth maybe $20K/year or more

Regarding some themes in this thread, I'm seeing similar strategies here. Because people who contract the infection unknowingly get it from somebody who probably doesn't know they have it, nearly anything can be justified. For instance, taking the kid out of preschool before they declare it closed. It costs us $65/Day whether he goes or not, so I'm not likely to see that money thrown away. Then, the hand cleaning. In the end, if you went to Walmart and co-mingled with some sick people, it's probably on everything you brought home anyway, a little hand cleaning helps for a minute but then you pick up your car keys again. True re Chinese having near superstition quality understanding of hygiene and germs but Jewish tradition got a lot of that right with kosher rules well before the advancement of germ theory. Now, though, we know that excessive hygiene with modern methods has probably caused the surge of childhood asthma. That is to say, let kids get dirty and share food with the dog. Hoping my workplace moves on with a shutdown soon as most of Denver has.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/13/coronavirus-numbers-we-really-should-be-worried-about/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_virus-math-10a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans&itid=hp_hp-top-table-main_virus-math-10a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans This is the coronavirus math that has experts so worried: Running out of ventilators, hospital bedsFor weeks now, America’s leaders and its public have been obsessed with one set of numbers: How many people have died? How many confirmed cases? And in what states? But to understand why experts are so alarmed and what may be coming next, the public needs to start paying attention to a whole other set of numbers: How many ventilators do we have in this country? How many hospital beds? How many doctors and nurses? And most importantly, how many sick people can they all treat at the same time? Consider the ventilators For those severely ill with a respiratory disease such as covid-19, ventilators are a matter of life or death because they allow patients to breathe when they cannot on their own. In a report last month, the Center for Health Security at Johns Hopkins estimated America has a total of 160,000 ventilators available for patient care (with at least an additional 8,900 in the national stockpile). A planning study run by the federal government in 2005 estimated that if America were struck with a moderate pandemic like the 1957 influenza, the country would need more than 64,000 ventilators. If we were struck with a severe pandemic like the 1918 Spanish flu, we would need more than 740,000 ventilators — many times more than are available. The math on hospital beds isn’t any better The United States has roughly 2.8 hospital beds per 1,000 people. South Korea, which has seen success mitigating its large outbreak, has more than 12 hospital beds per 1,000 people. China, where hospitals in Hubei were quickly overrun, has 4.3 beds per 1,000 people. Italy, a developed country with a reasonably decent health system, has seen its hospitals overwhelmed and has 3.2 beds per 1,000 people. The United States has an estimated 924,100 hospital beds, according to a 2018 American Hospital Association survey, but many are already occupied by patients at any one time. And the United States has 46,800 to 64,000 medical intensive-care unit (ICU) beds, according to the AHA. (There are an additional 51,000 ICU beds specialized for cardiology, pediatrics, neonatal, burn patients and others.) A moderate pandemic would mean 1 million people needing hospitalization and 200,000 needing intensive care, according to a Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security report last month. A severe pandemic would mean 9.6 million hospitalizations and 2.9 million people needing intensive care. Etcetera

We spread out and did two Costco trips yesterday. Waiting for the signal to begin remote work. Toddler’s preschool hasn’t closed but most of the public schools have closed. Might be a game of chicken with the pre-school - over whether or not we keep paying them while they are eventually closed. Several white-hot discussions the last few mornings about the party’s “YOU’RE WELCOME” propaganda offensive they’re spreading in and outside of China. Despite giving us SARS1 and now outdoing themselves with SARS2 they are going around the world saying oh, we can help, because that’s just the kind of people we are. Indeed, the people have suffered and the medical profession there are the true hero’s and have been amazing. But, to keep trying to glorify the party is not only galling but the people themselves are ignored once again. Yes, I was actually told this morning that the world should be thankful that Chinese doctors figured out the 14 day thing.

Don't blame the wet markets, blame the U. S. : https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-13/chinese-official-pushes-conspiracy-theory-u-s-army-behind-virus? Chinese Official Pushes Conspiracy Theory U.S. Army Behind VirusA Chinese foreign ministry official pushed a conspiracy theory the U.S. army may have had a role in spreading the virus, highlighting growing tensions between the world’s biggest economies as both governments seek to deflect blame for the outbreak. “It might be US army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan,” Zhao Lijian, a foreign ministry spokesman, said in a tweet. “Be transparent! Make public your data! US owe us an explanation!” 2/2 CDC was caught on the spot. When did patient zero begin in US? How many people are infected? What are the names of the hospitals? It might be US army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan. Be transparent! Make public your data! US owe us an explanation! pic.twitter.com/vYNZRFPWo3 — Lijian Zhao 赵立坚 (@zlj517) March 12, 2020With the coronavirus spreading from China into the U.S. and around the world, both nations are trading tit-for-tat claims about its origins. While it’s unclear whether Zhao was being facetious, earlier this month he became the first official in China to suggest that the virus didn’t originate there, even though he hasn’t provided any evidence for that claim.

In this Chinese paper: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.04.20031120v2.full.pdf+html They show that people who died from covid-19 also had their kidneys destroyed (apparently, this virus can infect your lungs and your kidneys; once there, it is cytopathic - destroying the tissue) I don't think you are hearing this yet in the U. S. It mentions several kidney treatments while trying to pull somebody back from Covid -19 and one is to use a diuretic. That is my other high blood pressure med (other than lisinopril). If I was diabetic, had high blood pressure and over 60, I would load meds and supplies and drive to a remote cabin (if I had one) and wait it out.

I have read a little more. People have been looking at this for years. Our lisinopril is in serum, not extracellular like the virus. We would have to inhale it. The comment that it would make make more sense to target the virus receptor protein doesn't stand up: between the three main SARS viruses (including MERS), the differences are on the surface of the virus particle. It can easily change, but the ACE receptor does not change. This would also suggest the the freezer vaccine may not be cross-reactive. Go to medrxiv.org and click on infectious diseases and you will have more articles to read than you can handle. Including the contributing factors, returning symptoms, etc

He can choose not to like them but the ad hominem attacks and all you're doing is shilling for the ccp from the comfort of Canada is pretty sad. The two guys, while tedious, are almost never wrong. Like a good baseball game, they are 5 minutes of excitement packed into 3 hours. Meaning, they have little to say and it is the same thing. No doubt they have their contacts and most of what they say is close to accurate. This seems to hurt the Canadian guy. Oh: I only got halfway through. The wumao's jumped right in with their comments supporting him. And, here I am reading them at lunch time. Hard to eat. In addition to needing a producer to oversee their videos, and a writer, Winston and C-milk probably need to drop the China theme since they won't be back there too much. Gweilo got some things wrong: they are not two years out of China, and they have been de-monetized by youtube. And their stuff just isn't that shocking or novel anymore. Amy blondie quite possibly has some help from the party as her production quality is very high. But at least her vid's are easier to watch and they're scripted and there is no party loving bs in them. Or she doesn't have party help but at least hasn't run afoul of them yet. They do take me back to the days when people discovered china for themselves and it was easy to love. This Gweilo (sp) guy is being used by the party and he may not even realize it. As Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Tippin each said: if you don't stand for something you will fall for anything

We acquired a ton of hand sanitizer (hint: try Dollar Tree) and have 7 boxes of cheerios. If we had that chest freezer we mean to get someday it would be full. I wonder why she hasn't gone ga ga for toilet paper yet? We have a Business Costco near us which is usually packed with Chinese anyway and they haven't been able to empty any shelves there yet. Because we just got Costco size bottles of their Kirkland gin and their made in France Kirkland vodka, we're probably okay in that department. We've only got 15 cases (of the virus!) in Denver so we'll just watch the news. Cash-flow is usually our top priority but we can bend.

Been wondering this, too, since I take lisinopril and also wondered if it could help or hurt (since it inhibits - through binding - the ACE) . Hope it doesn't become an issue Inquiring minds want to know: https://www.researchgate.net/post/Why_cant_ACE_inhibitors_work_as_coronavirus_blockers

They're taking the young women of marriage and child bearing age.

But it seemed like such a good idea back in the echo chamber! if you have to educate people to be grateful maybe "it's too soon" .... or something.

First we knew the Covid-19 seemed to affect men more. The, we noticed unlike the flu, it spares young children. China has released some epidemiological data (through WHO) and maybe published some papers. It could be that the infection progresses farther and more virulently in people with high blood pressure. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/these-underlying-conditions-make-coronavirus-more-severe-and-theyre-surprisingly-common/ar-BB10ZdOC?li=BBnb7Kz These underlying conditions make coronavirus more severe, and they're surprisingly common Cardiovascular complications The novel coronavirus tears apart the lungs, but the underlying condition most connected with COVID-19’s worst outcomes are afflictions of the heart. Nearly half the adults living in the United States have high blood pressure. Likewise, diabetes is a household name, with one of every 10 Americans—34.2 million across all ages—dealing with the metabolic disorder. Both can factor into cardiovascular disease, a wide spectrum of disorders that kill one person roughly every 37 seconds in the United States. Though the specific influence of COVID-19 on the cardiovascular system remains unclear, the American College of Cardiology states, “there have been reports of acute cardiac injury, arrhythmias, hypotension, tachycardia, and a high proportion of concomitant cardiovascular disease in infected individuals, particularly those who require more intensive care.” One study of 150 patients from Wuhan, China—the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak—found that patients with cardiovascular diseases had a significantly increased risk of death when they are infected. That’s because the heart and lungs are incredibly interconnected. Breathe in and out rapidly, and your pulse automatically increases its pace. But if your heart is already weak or you have blocked arteries, then you are working harder than a normal person to circulate blood and oxygen throughout your body. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/10/coronavirus-is-mysteriously-sparing-kids-killing-elderly-understanding-why-may-help-defeat-virus/? Coronavirus is mysteriously sparing kids and killing the elderly. Understanding why may help defeat the virusOne of the few mercies of the spreading coronavirus is that it leaves young children virtually untouched — a mystery virologists say may hold vital clues as to how the virus works. In China, only 2.4 percent of reported cases were children and only 0.2 percent of reported cases were children who got critically ill, according to the World Health Organization. China has reported no case of a young child dying of the disease covid-19. ......... Previous coronavirus outbreaks have also mysteriously spared the young. No children died during the SARS outbreak in 2002, which killed 774 people. And few children developed symptoms from the deadly MERS coronavirus, which has killed 858 since 2012. To find out why, Menachery has been giving mice at his Texas lab SARS — which is a very close cousin to the new coronavirus. Baby mice at his lab have shaken off the infection, while the older mice have had their lungs and bodies ravaged by the disease. ..... Menachery found the older mice’s fatalities were strongly related to not just weakness in their immune systems but also a “disregulation” that caused their immune systems to overreact to the SARS coronavirus. That’s similar to how humans die of infections from the new coronavirus, called SARS-CoV-2. “It’s the aggressive response from their immune system that is damaging them, even more than the infection itself,” Menachery said. “It’s like police responding to a misdemeanor with a SWAT team crashing through the door.”

As the kid said in Jurassic park: "well, we're out of the car, but back in the tree!" Did this pain nerve impairment come on suddenly - like from injury - or has it been gradual? I would expect a longer recovery from an injury. I can imagine fighting the pain while you were upright in a chair, you had to find out, though. Are the legs equally affected? Or, maybe, could you lean more on one leg the next time you try standing? did you say the MRI showed normal discs?