Posted this here away from prying eyes

[Patrick & Li]

This has totally become a nightmare!

 

My wife and stepson went for their medical exam on 2-27-2004, My stepson was denied the chance because he didnt have a Chinese passport.

My wife went onto the interview on 3-1-2004. Her Visa was approved, and she was told to come back the next day to pick it up. During this time i wrote the embassy a letter and asked them to explain why my stepson was denied the chance for the Visa. According to the instruction packet on form "169", it states that any child under the age of 16 years old doesnt need a Passport because they are able to travel with the parent.

The embassy sent me back an E-mail stating that they could not process his K4 without the Passport. No if, ands or buts.

 

Soooooooooo....The next day my wife goes to pick up her Visa. They told her she now couldnt receive the Visa because they needed additional time to process the Visa. They gave her a "Yellow slip", No explanation other than needing the additional time.

Of course,my wife was now a basket case. She left the embassy in tears, in fact i believe she cried for 3 days. She left me a message on my answering machine that was heartwrenching to say the least.

Sooooo.....I wrote the embassy again. Trying to find out why she didnt receive the Visa. I havent yet received a reply back, but on Wednesday, I called DOS....Hoping they could give me some revelation as to what is happening.

They told me that my wifes Visa in fact HAS been approved, but because of sons status, they needed to wait until he gets his passport before they issue the Visa to my wife.

You know, That was so very simple. They could have saved my wife 3 days of extreme stress by telling her this at the embassy, but NOOOOO, they let her believe she didnt get the Visa, and so therefore, she was blaming herself.

 

Anyways, here is where we are at the moment.

We need a passport for her son.

I am assuming that for him to get the passport, he will need a Birth Certificate. Our problem with that is......Sons natural father holds the birth certificate. He will not release the certificate to my wife so she can get his passport. He is trying to exact revenge on her for the divorce that happened 7 years ago. He doesnt support the child, but the divorce certificate is "Joint custody". So therefore we need the certificate to get the passport.

We are stuck between a rock and a hardplace because of this. I feel it is not right for us to leave her son behind in China, so therefore i also feel maybe we are doing the wrong thing if she comes here without him. My moral and christian views tell me that it is wrong to ask his Mother to come to america and leave him behind. But he cannot come without the passport and he cannot get the passport without the certificate, and he cannot get the certificate without the Natural Fathers permission. So therefore he cannot get the Visa.

 

Does anyone have a answer for this? Does anyone know of a way to get the passport on the "Sly"? Does anyone here have connections that can get son the passport without his Fathers permission?

If not, i feel extremely screwed!

 

Patrick

[keelec]

Patrick,

 

What a horrible mess.

 

Have you called Linda Donahue to ask about the Form OF-169 that states that a passport is not required?

 

Can you go to whoever issued the original birth certificate and ask for a new copy? In the USA doing so is generally a relatively easy procedure.

 

Somebody needs to talk to the EX and ask what he wants..... Would he be materialistic enough to think $1K or $2K would satisfy him to give up his custody rights (be careful that he doesn't ask for $50K).

 

Never ask your wife to choose between you and her child, that would be BAD.

 

Best of Luck,

----- Clifford -----

[keelec]

I forgot to ask, how old is the son?

[Patrick & Li]

Patrick,

 

What a horrible mess.

 

Have you called Linda Donahue to ask about the Form OF-169 that states that a passport is not required?

 

Can you go to whoever issued the original birth certificate and ask for a new copy?  In the USA doing so is generally a relatively easy procedure.

 

Somebody needs to talk to the EX and ask what he wants.....  Would he be materialistic enough to think $1K or $2K would satisfy him to give up his custody rights (be careful that he doesn't ask for $50K).

 

Never ask your wife to choose between you and her child, that would be BAD.

 

Best of Luck,

----- Clifford -----

Yes, I got a reply back from L. Donahue, but she says the passport is a requirement.

 

Yes, i agree with getting a Birth certificate here, but it isnt the same in China.

 

My wife refuses to offer him money even though i have stated to her i would be willing to pay.

 

My wife on several occasions has said she will leave her son with her parents and then we can file for her son when he is 18. The natural father has no rights then.

Son is now 10 years old, That is 8 very long years. I have a problem with that scenario. But i have never asked my wife to choose between me and her son. From a moral standpoint, i could never do this. In fact, i am having a problem allowing her to leave him behind. That is why i am willing to do "WHATEVER" it takes to get his passport.

 

Patrick

[warpedbored]

I vaguely remember telling you about Jim H. and his fiance having a similar problem. She went to court and got sole custody of the child. Perhaps she could hold back child support over his head or as Clifford suggested a bribe may bring him around. Do what ever it takes.

[Patrick & Li]

Yes, i talked to Jim, but jims inside connection was his Father-inlaw, he was a General in the Chinese army. But Jim said he wont help. So thats pretty well a dead end!

[se_lang]

My MM went to hospital an had no problem getting them to sign and stamp in Chinese and English a birth record I typed up in Chinese and English it was a real birth record so it was not illegal and BCIS accepted it no problem. So has she even tried to go to hospital an get record or is she just guessing they wont give it to her. I think between this group we could make a fake birth record for china and forging the fathers signature is easy

[Patrick & Li]

The certificate is needed to get the passport. The passport is needed to get the Visa.

 

Deflated and about ready to chuck in the towel!

 

Patrick

[keelec]

My wife on several occasions has said she will leave her son with her parents and then we can file for her son when he is 18. The natural father has no rights then.

Son is now 10 years old, That is 8 very long years. I have a problem with that scenario.

Patrick,

 

If the son was 16 or 17, I would say that he should finish school in China then come here at age 18.

 

However, 10 is too young.

 

You have to find a way for him to accompany the wife.

 

I think the best option is for your wife to swallow her pride and go visit her ex. Take $1K or $2K or whatever seems appropriate. Let him know that he has two choices, either take the Grand now, or he will be expected to pay 7 yrs of back child support, and he will have to support the child for the next 8 years while the child waits until he is 18. Ask him what is best for his son and how he wants the son to remember him?

 

Play it like a Poker Hand. She can never leave the son behind, but NEVER tell the ex that.

 

----- Clifford -----

[se_lang]

The certificate is needed to get the passport. The passport is needed to get the Visa.

 

Deflated and about ready to chuck in the towel!

 

Patrick

Don't give up the fight you have gone to far, Cliff has some valid points Money talks, They say you catch more fly's with honey then vinegar you have many options at this point take a breathier an clear your head the end goal is to unit all 3 of you, If she wants to leave her child with the parents while you 2 fight her husband together then don't deny her that remember then it is a stable home fighting for what is right. Here are a few options.

1.Bribe Father

2.Have family his and hers put pressure on father

3.Have son ask father.

4.Use brute force(But gently)

5.Have her stay there for the time until the courts grant her sole custody then reapply for visa an wait another year.

6.Have her come here for the time until the courts grant her sole custody.

 

Remember the father should want his child to have a better life that should work in your favor somewhere in all this.

 

Good luck, Get some rest, Fight hard, and most importantly remember we are here to help

[Patrick & Li]

The certificate is needed to get the passport. The passport is needed to get the Visa.

 

Deflated and about ready to chuck in the towel!

 

Patrick

Don't give up the fight you have gone to far, Cliff has some valid points Money talks, They say you catch more fly's with honey then vinegar you have many options at this point take a breathier an clear your head the end goal is to unit all 3 of you, If she wants to leave her child with the parents while you 2 fight her husband together then don't deny her that remember then it is a stable home fighting for what is right. Here are a few options.

1.Bribe Father

2.Have family his and hers put pressure on father

3.Have son ask father.

4.Use brute force(But gently)

5.Have her stay there for the time until the courts grant her sole custody then reapply for visa an wait another year.

6.Have her come here for the time until the courts grant her sole custody.

 

Remember the father should want his child to have a better life that should work in your favor somewhere in all this.

 

Good luck, Get some rest, Fight hard, and most importantly remember we are here to help

I have decided to let Li decide what she will do. I stand by whatever she decides to do. I have offered my money and i have offered my time. There is not much else i can do short of going over there and whipping his ass.

 

I have told my wife to offer the Father a Bribe.

I have also told her to go to court and sue for past child support in hopes that she can use this as leverage.

Her son has already begged his father on numerous occasions to relent, but has been unsuccessful.

The Fathers family supports the Father, in fact they are stronger about this than he is.

If i knew what kind of brute force i could use, i would most definitly use it. I dont want to get arrested in China though

 

Basically, i am at the mercy of Chinese laws. If the son were a daughter instead.....This would never have been a problem!

 

Patrick

[se_lang]

well if he wont take the money I am sure 2-3 thugs on the street would be happy to keep him busy while somebody finds the record for the same amount of money, or maybe the hospital could be persuaded to issue another record for the same amount of money. What I don't understand is why the hospital wont issue her another birth record.

[Bobby]

My advice would be to say screw the father, go to the nearest GZC and have them cook up a certified document of his birth. My fiancee never had a birth certificate. She went to the GZC, he threw something together with her picture in it, and bam!, one certificate of live birth. This is neither illegal nor expensive. It shouldn't take more than a day or two.

[frank1538]

Three things popped out when I read your post.

 

First, is there a difference between birth certificate and a notarial birth certificate? Can Li obtain a notarial birth certificate from the local notarial office without the father's involvment? If so, I think the notarial certificate can be used to obtain a Chinese passport (I believe Jingwen used notarial certificates to get her kids' passports).

 

Second, can the "family registry" book be used to obtain a birth certificate or a passport?

 

Third, does Li know anybody who deals with the adoption of Chinese children? Most adoption agencies somehow obtain birth certificates and passports for these children when they are adopted by foreign parents. Maybe your son's paperwork can find its way into the batch processing.

 

I also ran across the following which might shed some light:

 

 

I am Chinese and don't have a birth certificate. What can I do?

 

Birth certificates are available in the form of notarial certificates (Chu Cheng Gong Zheng Shu or Shu Sheng Zheng Ming Shu) which can be obtained from one of China's Notarial Offices (Gong Zheng Chu) which are located in all large Chinese cities and in rural county seats. Individual living outside of China may obtain notarial certificates from the notarial office with jurisdiction over the county of previous residence. Chinese relatives or friends may request issuance of certificates on behalf of someone now living abroad. Relatives and friends should have specific written authorization from the interested party before they request certificates. Alternatively, persons in need of notarial documents may contact the PRC Embassy or Consulate nearest to their residence abroad and ask that the request be forwarded to the appropriate notarial office. Obtaining a notarial certificates through a PRC Embassy or Consulate can require considerable time, however.

 

http://www.brijkapoor.com/faqs.htm

[danswayne]

Would your wife be against bribing one of the officials that is in charge of the birth certificate. I am sure she can find a friend or someone who knows who is in charge of such things and get the certificate anyway. After living there for 3 years I can tell you if you know the right people then anyting is possible, just ask a couple of other guys on here.