Reasons for denials

[Dan R]

Robert you are talking about government employees stationed abroad. Not only do they get all the U.S. federal holidays but Chinese ones as well. Vacation time depends on what senority and GS level they have but it is more than norm in industry. We take care of our public employees well. Plus they have a union to protect them from their employers (management and us.)

 

Now what were you saying about don't they realize how little vacation most of us get?

[tonado]

You know it strange they ask why only one trip, maybe they forget most american get 1 ot 3 week vacation a year, and can not travel without losing thier jobs.

maybe someone should ask a VO if they get more vacation?

Most american can not just drop everything and travel the world on a whim.

 

I feel the VO are a bit out of touch with what american do for a living and how much vacation time they have.

 

Robert

Good point. I did make two trips to Nanning 3 months apart during my visa process. I was able to make the second trip was because I lost my job. If I was still working during that time, I wouldn't have made the second trip.

[philb]

David:

I have found a similar experience as others have hinted. Not only my SO, but many friends of hers are ready to marry on the spot. I have taken 2 visits before deciding to become engaged....I am considered a "turtle".

When I visit, I am constantly asked if I know any eligle men. Which brings me to my question:

 

When my SO's friends express an interest in an American man, I ask them many questions trying to get a profile. Invariably, they desire an older man. Ten to fifteen years older does not even phase them. They try and explain their desire for a "reliable" man. However, may a significant age gap raise a flag to the interviewing VO? Say 20 year spread or more cause a little closer inspection?

 

Phil & Yun

[boba]

I spent several years living with two wives and in the end I realized that I did not know either one of them at all. I have spent 18 months writing and talking to Meixiang and I know her and trust her more than I have ever known or trusted any other person ever. Yes spending time with her was important but it also confirmed what I had already suspected after writing letters to her for a couple of months.

 

The problems with most relationships is people do not really get to know each other they meet are physically attracted jump into bed then start living together and get married. Then one day they wake up and realize that they really do not know the other person. This is when the troubles begin. It is called the honey moon period and last about 1 year.

 

What makes or breaks a relationship is the ability to communicate to be open and honest about who you are and what you want and need. I have never been able to do that before I met Meixiang. I believe that the reason I have been able to do what I have never done before with Meixiang is because I have had to learn to put into words what it is I am feeling, wanting and needing because we are so far apart and that is the only way it can be done, and we have in fact learned so much more about each other in our letters and conversation while being physically separated. That is why I am so pissed that a man who has talked to Meixiang for 5 minutes can tell me that I can not communicate to her.

 

Some of the greatest love stories are about two people who are seperate and only have letters or spoken words from a distance to express their deep and true love.

 

The power of this web site lies in the fact that people communicate their hopes, dreams, frustration and share all of these only through written words.

 

I agree with ptcrusier333rph that not every one can just take off anytime they want. Plus I feel it is important to save as much vacation time as possible to be with your so when they arrive so that you can support and help them to acclimate to their new environment.

 

Boba and Meixiang

[BuffaloPaul]

The problems with most relationships is people do not really get to know each other they meet are physically attracted jump into bed then start living together and get married.  Then one day they wake up and realize that they really do not know the other person.  This is when the troubles begin.  It is called the honey moon period and last about 1 year.

 

What makes or breaks a relationship is the ability to communicate to be open and honest about who you are and what you want and need.  I have never been able to do that before I met Meixiang.  I believe that the reason I have been able to do what I have never done before with Meixiang is because I have had to learn to put into words what it is I am feeling, wanting and needing because we are so far apart and that is the only way it can be done, and we have in fact learned so much more about each other in our letters and conversation while being physically separated.

I totally agree with you about having to do a lot a written communication can really force you to divulge yourself. When you write 1000 letters to someone you've got to say more superficial crap or eventually you just get bored. I lived with my ex for a year before I married her and never discussed the range of topics that I have discussed with Jenny.

[david_dawei]

I was able to make the second trip was because I lost my job.  If I was still working during that time, I wouldn't have made the second trip.

My exact situation as well !! Now I am comtemplaing a third trip, based on the recent blue slips. My current job would allow this since I can bring my work to China.

 

I agree with the other posts that many simply do not have the resources or time to go multiple times to China, and rely more heavily on developing communication that deepens the relationship more than if they were together. This is the fact that GZ simply misses and is out of touch with.

 

But it reminds me of the process of making a test for some sort of promotion, which ultimately does not test the candidates ability to really perform the job. In GZ case, they have a 'test' of sorts they apply to couples, although the test is not necessarily indicative of the relationships depth.

 

Maybe to be fair to GZ, they are charged with ensuring no fraudulent cases get through... and they are getting more and more applications every year. It would be good to know what the total stats of Chinese visas, meaning we only know of CFL members experience. I suspect our success is higher simply because we keep each other informed in real-time.

[david_dawei]

When my SO's friends express an interest in an American man, I ask them many questions trying to get a profile.  Invariably, they desire an older man.  Ten to fifteen years older does not even phase them.  They try and explain their desire for a "reliable" man.  However, may a significant age gap raise a flag to the interviewing VO?  Say 20 year spread or more cause a little closer inspection?

Some of my SO's friends joked about 'wanting an american'... but the age difference is a culture preference. I believe this is a function of [traditional] Chinese culture and ways, this is not a flag at all. But GZ does not even demonstrate to be in touch with American ways (ie: people have limited resources and vacation).

 

The fact is that people could of choosen the K-3 route, and I cannot believe that GZ would use age difference as a basis for suspecting fraud... but let's not ASSume anything about GZ.

[Yuanyang]

Show support? Interesting. My SO actually does very well in China (TV related) and she doesn't need any money from me nor will she accept any. (She has no interest in pursuing that career over here.)

 

Whenever we estimate that she is 4 months away from the interview I have asked that she quit her job and focus on more intensive English language courses. I will send money during that time so not to burden the family.

 

As for visits, I receive two weeks of vacation each year and have booked both weeks in 2005 to be with her and my family in China.

 

CR1/K3 Mailed April 3, 2005

 

Bob, Xiao Mei and Yilin

[ed and ying]

I believe the length of time (# of days spent with SO) for each visit is important too.

 

If length of time and number visits is important - I may have something going for me. I have known Ying for over 2 years now. I have had chance to visit her 10 times. working on plan for #11 now. Half the vists were business and half were personal. I have been very fortunate that my situation has allowed so many personal visits.

 

Last - We have burned out on the internet thing, it is mostly phone now - but we still write snail mail letters. I included some in our I-129F. It shows her communicating with me, in English, in her handwritting. I fugured she could very quickly show ( prove to) VO that she did write the letters

[david_dawei]

she doesn't need any money from me nor will she accept any. 

 

Whenever we estimate that she is 4 months away from the interview I have asked that she quit her job and  focus on more intensive English language courses.  I will send money during that time so not to burden the family.

yes, Chinese actually look down on the offer of money and look even lower at someone who will accept money. Another of the cultural surprises and differences.

 

I think your right to do this... I told Zixuan to concentrate on English at this point. So she has a tutor right now... When I went over there for two months, she quit her job and we were together 24x7 , and her english got dramatically better, although I would say that it is not at the best point for an interview yet.

 

I send her money since I would rather ensure her doing whatever is necessary to get through the interview process than to work.

[ed and ying]

I think your right to do this... I told Zixuan to concentrate on English at this point. So she has a tutor right now... When I went over there for two months, she quit her job and we were together 24x7 , and her english got dramatically better, although I would say that it is not at the best point for an interview yet.

 

Ying spoke some English when I met her. She learned in school, but it had become rusty. The more we spoke the better it got. She is not working now, doing the self study route to beef up her vocabulary and English skills. I review/study with her almost everyday, by phone.

[david_dawei]

I think your right to do this... I told Zixuan to concentrate on English at this point. So she has a tutor right now... When I went over there for two months, she quit her job and we were together 24x7 , and her english got dramatically better, although I would say that it is not at the best point for an interview yet.

 

Ying spoke some English when I met her. She learned in school, but it had become rusty. The more we spoke the better it got. She is not working now, doing the self study route to beef up her vocabulary and English skills. I review/study with her almost everyday, by phone.

Ed, if I may ask... you meet Ying almost two years prior to sending the I-129F. How many times did you visit prior to submitting and much evidence did you send? Do you plan on another trip prior to the interview?

 

I know your already waiting, just to get the NOA2. Hang in there...

[ed and ying]

I had chance to visit her in China8 or 9 times before submitting I-129f. 50/50 work/personal. The long wait time was for my final divorce decree. I would have submitted earlier, but could not.

 

I documented every visit with visa, PP entry/exit stamps, boarding passes and photos or us together. I also included records of email/phone communication. I included snail mails and emails.

 

I plan 2 more personal trips. One in July or so and the one for the interview - Oct/Nov - maybe

[david_dawei]

I had chance to visit  her in China8 or 9 times before submitting I-129f.  50/50 work/personal.  The long wait time was for my final divorce decree. I would have submitted earlier, but could not.

 

I documented every visit with visa, PP entry/exit stamps, boarding passes and photos or us together. I also included records of email/phone communication. I included snail mails and emails.

 

I plan 2 more personal trips.  One in July or so and the one for the interview - Oct/Nov - maybe

I understand this... regardless of the reason to be in China, you can submit this as 'evidence' you were together.

 

I am also thinking of going in July... let's stay in touch since I would be an hour by train from you.

 

But if you are submitting through the west part of the US, I think that Oct/Nov might be too early a hope...

[BuffaloPaul]

Maybe to be fair to GZ, they are charged with ensuring no fraudulent cases get through... and they are getting more and more applications every year. It would be good to know what the total stats of Chinese visas, meaning we only know of CFL members experience.  I suspect our success is higher simply because we keep each other informed in real-time.

Yes, I definitely think that CFL members probably have a lower incidence of visa fraud (although it even happens here as can be seen with a recent post). I suspect that certainly the people that have been here (on CFL) a while are certainly not in the fraud business. I'm sure there is a segment of (US) people that are doing this for money and they are not going to participate in a forum. From the Chinese side, some are desperate enough to do whatever it takes to get a visa.

 

I suspect the extended timeline for China is a deliberate attempt to sort out good from bad. So, I see this as a game they are playing (unfortunately with peoples lives, but I don't think they know what else to do)

 

So, I will go all out to visit as many times before the interview. I figure, Jenny will have the next 50 years to adjust to life in America