GOT A GRIPE WITH GUANGZHOU????

[Chinese Wife!!!]

OK folks. My greatest allegiance to the visa sites is here at CFL and of course to PJ and Donahso. There is however a post at VJ that a person there has asked for ten - twenty concisely written questions concerning problems at GZ and will place these questions forth to a high ranking official for an upcoming interview. Supposedly get feedback. I didn't know about this persons "IN" with the "powers to be" but I would like to see what happens. The thread is posted in the K-3/CR-1 forum and is titled "The Chinese Connection". I don't think PJ nor Donahso would mind us either posting our "Bietches" there (it would be easier for me that way). There has been little response by VJ members there and I hate to miss a chance. If you PREFER to stay at CFL PLEASE list a short concise description of your complaint here and I will carry it to VJ myself.

 

The topics that this 1-1/2 thumb typist put up in 5 minutes were:

 

1. Three people were given "white slips" and told they passed interview only to return for the visa and subsequently receive "blue slips". Not only is this devasting to the people concerned but it unermines GZ's credibility.

 

2. Typically our "FAMILY BASED" visa appls. sit one month in GZ customs clearance. Another method or accept electronically transmitted copies.

 

3. Generally 5-7 month wait for an interview date. One of the slowest in the world. World's largest population. Only family visas at GZ why not other consulates? What are they planning for the future?

 

4. No accountability on secondary name checks AFTER finally getting to GZ. Some are "Black holed" for up to 18 months. Doubt DOS can change it but "FAMILY BASED visas taking up to 2 years and no feedback as to when, where or why- (didn't mention at VJ) Maybe it could easily be corrected by additional applicant info.

 

THANK YOU, Richard (I'm gone to PM Donahso right now about this post).

[tywy_99]

I can't sympathize with #2 since our petition sat in CAN customs for over two months; the longest wait ever! And #4, not much anyone can do about that since the provisions of the PA2001 has taken full effect by now. All one can do is hope and pray for the best.

#3.- 5 to 7 months from what? P3? NVC?

 

#1- I can strongley agree to. To dash someones hopes like that borders upon "cruel and unusual punishment." That one surely needs to be addressed, stopped and corrected.

[Chinese Wife!!!]

Typed 'em in a hurry Ty. I should be doing other things- leaving Monday and haven't changed one of the toilet seats yet- Will be there with her until she arrives here.

 

#2. Change to read 1 month AVG. sometimes up to TWO months???

 

#3. Average 5-7 months from when NVC forwards it until interview sound better? Stats sound about right?

 

Wonder if NVC processing is to be part of this discussion too?

 

Difficulties contacting GZ another possible?

 

You folks talk it out I have a toilet seat to change and BAGS to pack.

 

I'm going to VJ briefly to contact Jamie about parameters also- Just GZ or including NVC???

[Alex]

As everyone here knows, my so and I got the #1 treatment..it is one of the most horrible things that can happen. I have questioned the credibility AND legality of GZ's actions.. I can't believe a "first world"democratic government does this to its own people ...nuff said

[PJ]

Hello,

 

I support this completely and as you know I am very much in favor of free and open speech (both in this forum and across forums) as long as it does not violate anyone's privacy or cause any harm.

 

I have been following some of the recent stories. From my humble perspective, #1 is a huge problem. It's just completely wrong to set expectations with a white slip and a time to come get the visa, and then change the rules.

 

#2 ... about clearing customs, I don't think this is anything the U.S. government can control. This has to do with the chinese government, and any country is going to have a delay in import/exports at any port.

 

Honestly I cringe to think about what sort of delays would come up if they were to try to implement transmission of electronic copies. Trust me, I've been in technology long enough. If this were to come about, I could see a lot more delays. Think about how many times you've called customer service for your cable or your cell phone bill and they've said "we can't do anything, our computers are down" ...

 

#3 and #4 are good points.

 

P.J.

[tywy_99]

As everyone here knows, my so and I got the #1 treatment..it is one of the most horrible things that can happen. I have questioned the credibility AND legality of GZ's actions.. I can't believe a "first world"democratic government does this to its own people ...nuff said

I got my fingers crossed for you, Alex. I am waiting to hear the happy news from you one day soon.

I'll say it again, fight the good fight my friend!....... B)

[Chinese Wife!!!]

Alex THAT is exactly why your case is posted as #1. At least in MY heart. There are many people here that think this SUX! The recent "White Slip" people seemed to hold back until GZ ACTUALLY GAVE them the visa. The posts a few days back also show that people want to do something about this situation. GZ has lost all credibility in my eyes when this has happened more than once- ONCE is even too much. Prayers to ya still Alex. Richard

[Chinese Wife!!!]

Thanks PJ and Ty that's what I want open discussion and I agree that the customs delay may be a mute point the way Gov. programs get implemented. Number 4 may be a mute point as being "National Security" and outside DOS BUT I have a strong opinion about the hold it puts on a familys lives. Keep or toss.

 

PM'ed Jamie for better details also and I got a toilet seat to paint- too late to change it.

 

PJ thanks for letting this happen TOO! Richard

[lele]

Richard,

 

Thank you.

 

Some excellent points here. I do not know what VJ is, so I can not comment more on that.

 

However, with what you DO say:

 

1. China has one of the longest waits in the world, and it is on par with middle-eastern nations and african nations

 

2. In India, the only other country that is nearly as large as China for population, they have *multiple* consulates/embassies which issue K and IV types of Visas.

 

3. China is one of the few places in the world that the US Citizen *can not* enter the room for the interview, even if they want to! In some countries, it is a "requirement" for them to do so and in others, the option exists. Why is it that in China they can not? It seems like a great way to help present people with the common "oops, your relationship is not valid" response. IMHO it is BS!

 

4. We can not even directly phone the VOs in China. In most other consulates that issue these types of visas, not only can you directly email the VO's, but you can directly PHONE them too. Here, what little phoning can be done is expensive and ineffective.

 

5. The turnaround time for people adopting children, at least from the two couples that I know that did it, *from Guangzhou's point of view* (I am not talking about the other aspects of the issue) is 2-3 weeks. How come those family members get such a fast turn-around time, while we take 5-7 months (for us specifically, it has been about 6.5 months)?

 

6. Why are the only banks allowable to pay the fee located near GZ?

 

7. Why are there not hospitals available in most major cities, or at least 2-3 in each province which has a city of more than 1 million people (each province except for Xizhang, ningxia, and possibly inner mongolia)? It is absurd and extremely difficult for people such as my darling who comes from a *large* city, but because it is not in the SE nor in Beijing or Shanghai, she is really stuck.

 

8. Why is it that when we send emails, more than 75% of the time (from my own experience, I have sent 9 emails and 7 of them were as I will describe) the answers which are returned do not: 1. answer the question 2. were obviously not written by a VO (since the grammar and logic show that the writer was a native Chinese writer/speaker) 3. contain vague information at best and misleading information at worst.

 

9. Why are all of the forms that they send to us already expired? I wonder if they do this to later justify any refusals.

 

Ok, enough for now!!!!

 

Thanks again Richard.

[Robert S.]

This is an absolutely brilliant list of questions. Even though I no longer have to worry about GZ it still makes me disgusted the way things are done there and I still want to know why.

[warpedbored]

Lately I have noticed that some of the blue slips being issued have been vague without clearly stating exactly what the problem is and how to solve it. Ahming and max come to mind. All they say is they failed to show a valid relationship yet refused to look at the evidence brought to interview.

[Chinese Wife!!!]

Real Good Point Carl.

 

Adding in maybe- How in 2-5 minutes w/o looking at evidence do you determine an invalid relationship?.

 

Also any comments about Laungage, Bing's experience and the infamous tape??? Not try to poke a sore rib but....

[warpedbored]

Our case is old news. It has been almost a year since our infamous interview. Also in our case their demands while impossible were quite specific. They wanted me to make a 5 minute video speaking and writing Chinese. What they didn't tell us is there is no requirement we speak a common language. It was similar in that the VO refused to look at any of her other evidence though. There is very little fight left in me anymore. We survived the long ordeal of the wait, over came the blue slip and had a fairly easy AOS. Only one hurdle left to jump and that is removing the conditions of her green card in about 18 months. I would be willing to join a letter writing campaign for sure but I don't think our case is current enough to add to the complaints.

[pingme]

even though i am just getting started in the process, i have already read so many things that are slow or unfair about it. reading this topic gets my blood pressure going.

 

1) on the issue of getting white slips only then to be issued blue slips the following day:

to me, the white slip is a form of contract. the meaning of it is that you will get you visa the following day. the applicant surrenders his or her passport with the expectation that they will receive it the following day with a visa inside.

 

while the applicant is in the embassy, they are on US soil, and as such they are subject and also governed by the laws of the US government.

 

I don't see how after receiving a white slip, which indicates that the US government has done its job and found the applicant suitable for a visa, how during the night time, everything could change, and the applicant, without any say or representation, is then found unsuitable for a visa.

 

That to me just seems wrong, unfair, unjust, illegal.

 

The Visa Officers who are doing this should be held accountable to their superiors as well as to us.

 

2) lengthy customs clearance: while the US government cannot control or tell the chinese government how to inspect their boxes, they can choose to send visa papers in smaller shipments, and more frequent shipments. the only reason they choose to send these massive shipments is to reduce costs from their point of view, and don't care if we, as US citizens and also the ones who have paid to have our visas processed as quickly as possible, need to wait for weeks before they are shipped out from the NVC and then wait weeks/months for the boxes to pass customs.

 

So why not send each application in its own Express envelope?

 

And of course if they were to process visa applications in more than one place in the country, as is already done in so many other smaller countries, that would reduce the size of the shipments to guangzhou.

 

3) the wait for the interview is a disgrace to each of us, as well as the US. these are family based visas, and these are our loved ones, they should not take that long to be processed. i recently read that the UK will be opening up many Visa Centers across China to help process visas from china.

 

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2...tent_417365.htm

http://www.uk.cn/bj/index.asp?menu_id=321&artid=795

 

why can the UK government take better care of its citizens and those wishing to travel to the UK than the US government?

 

When we petition for our fiancee's to get a visa to come to the US, and if they are denied without good reason, or in some cases, given the white slip and then denied the following day, that is our government working on our behalf (since we have asked them to give our fiancee a visa) so their slow response, their delays, their mismanagement, their in competency, is their service to us, as well as our fiancees. so why is it that the US can't get its act together, assess the current situation in guangzhou and realize that one place cannot handle the work load, and distribute the work across the country.

 

Guangzhou's problem is that they try to handle too much themselves, all of the K1,K3 visas for the whole country of 1.5 billion people. My God, even Canada has 2 places where they process these visa, one on the east coast, one on the west! You would think the people in GuangZhou would get the message that their operations cannot handle everything.

 

I've got to wonder if the head of the Guangzhou embassy is some sort of masochists, wishing to inflict pain and long working hours for his or her employees, rather than seeking a better solution.

 

Ask your senator or representative why the person in charge of Guangzhou still has their job?

 

4) no accountability: the people in guangzhou are being paid by us, our taxes and our application fees, to process our visa requests in a timely manner. as far as i can tell, they are failing to do this, and should be held accountable to someone.

 

why does it take so long? is the fee we already pay too low, and so they cannot hire enough workers to process them in a timely manner? is Guangzhou overburdened and cannot handle the current load? they why don't they do something about it? do they expect the burden to get any less? if anything it will get even worse, so what are they doing about the current situation to resolve it?

 

my recommendation, is to not only submit these grievances to these public forums, but also each of us to submit them to our senators and representatives. and if you're willing also to the local media. one of the stated goals of this site, in the intro is:

 

"Our emotions have run the gamut. Sadness. Depression. Frustration. However, one emotion we have maintained during this entire ordeal is hope. Hope that the U.S. Government will come to understand the anguish its people are suffering as a result of being separated from their loved ones and act quickly to resolve the delays."

 

for those who have already been through the process, and have had a good or bad experience, submitting a letter to your senator and representatives would go along with those stated goals.

 

we also have from the guangzhou website the contact information for the people in charge there. A kindly worded letter or fax (or unkind if your treatment has not been fair) would at least let them know that you were happy or unhappy with their job as our representative in China. If your treatment was not kind, i would also include that you will be following up with your senator and representative demanding some kind of action or correction to the operations there.

:

Contact Information

 

Address: No. 1 Shamian Street South, Guangzhou 510133

Phone: 020-8121-8000

Fax: 020-8121-9001

 

 

Consul General:

Edward Dong

CG OMS: Martha Petitt

ECO/POL: Harvey Somers

COM: Robert Murphy Tel 8667-4011, Fax 8666-6409

CON: William Martin Fax 8121-8428

ADM: Jeffrey Rock

RSO: Michael Brenn

PAO: Wendy Lyle Tel 8335-4269, Fax 8335-4764

FAS: Keith Schneller Tel 8667-7553, Fax 8666-0703

DHS: Thomas Wong DHSGuangzhouGeneral@dhs.gov

DHSGuangzhouAdoption@dhs.gov

DHSGuangzhouV92@dhs.gov

Tel: 020-8121-8000 Ext 5951

Fax: 020-8121-7735

 

even though i am not yet at the P3 or P4 stage yet, i have already contact my senator and representative to let them know that the system is not working there, and asking them what they plan to do about it. if they plan to do something, i will vote for them next time. if they don't plan to do anything, they will not get my vote.

 

Letting you senators or representatives know about CFL, and the fact that thousands of visas are processed at guangzhou each month, will let them know that if they do not act, they could be losing more than just your vote. there may be hundreds of spouses, fiances waiting in their state that are going though the same hassels.

[Chinese Wife!!!]

Any other comments? There is a lot of REAL GOOD stuff above. I am looking for all things that we can pose questions for (that can be backed up W/ facts or known trends @ GZ) and relay that to the original poster that made the offer at VJ. I have asked nooneufo (in another thread) to use some of his #'s in a written form.

 

 

I am moving to a Las Vegas hotel tonight and am flying out Monday to Shanghai. If some could help us here at CFL to come to a concenus on the questions that would be great. Talk to Ya from the other side of the pond. Richard