Which visa is the better choice for my infant child? Q2, or L? (see details below)

[Hemutian]

Question #1: Which visa is the better choice for my infant child? Q2, or L?

Context: My child is a US citizen and will be 5 months old when we plan to travel to China in October 2023. I (the father) am a US citizen. My wife is a Chinese citizen with a US green card who lives in the US. She has relatives who live in China (her parents and brother. We expect that this is my son’s first of many trips to China over the next several years, so we’d like to get the longest visa possible. Are they issuing 10-year visas right now? Is there a greater likelihood of getting one through a Q2 or a L?

Question #2: For the Q2 visa, is my wife eligible to be the “inviter” (i.e. write the invitation letter) even though she doesn’t live in China? If not, is her brother eligible?

Context: The Q2 invitation letter instructions say the inviter should list “current address in China.” My wife doesn’t have a current address in China, so does that mean she cannot be the inviter? Of her relatives who live in China, my wife would prefer that the invitation letter come from her brother rather than her mother or father? Is that allowed?

Question #3: For the L visa invitation letter, is my wife eligible to be the “inviter”?

Context: The English-language instructions aren’t specific about who is eligible to be the inviter, but the Chinese-language instructions provide more detailed guidance. They list different rules for inviters who live in China and “华侨” inviters (“Huaqiao” or “oversees Chinese”). We assume that my wife belongs to this “Huaqiao” category. The instructions say that if the inviter is “Huaqiao”, they must submit A) a photocopy of their Chinese passport, B) a photocopy of their foreign residence permit (i.e. my wife’s US green card), and C) a Chinese residence permit valid for more than 6 months. I’m confused by this requirement C) . My wife doesn’t have a “Chinese residence permit”. Does this requirement C) only apply if the inviter is a “Huaqiao” foreigner residing in China?

Question #4: For the L visa, it looks like there are two options. Option 1 is to provide round-trip air tickets and hotel reservations. Option 2 is to get an invitation letter. Is my understanding correct that for the invitation letter, it is NOT necessary to list round-trip air tickets and hotel reservations?

Context: Instructions say to list “place of visit” but that doesn’t include air tickets or hotel reservations, right?

Question #5: For the L visa, the instructions state that the inviter’s letter of invitation requires an “official seal”. Where/how is this official seal obtained?

[Randy W]

Don't overthink this. You seem to pretty much be answering your own questions. They will tell you at the consulate which is most appropriate for your circumstances. Where are you seeing the "instructions" for the Q2 and L visas?

[Hemutian]

7 minutes ago, Randy W said:

Don't overthink this. You seem to pretty much be answering your own questions. They will tell you at the consulate which is most appropriate for your circumstances. Where are you seeing the "instructions" for the Q2 and L visas?

We need to figure out which Visa we're applying to before we go to the Consulate because the rules and requirements are different depending on the type of visa applied for. 

The instructions I quote are from the website of the Chinese Consulate General in San Francisco:

http://sanfrancisco.china-consulate.gov.cn/eng/lszj/zgqz/202303/t20230314_11040155.htm

 

[Randy W]

Okay.

For a Q2 - Issued to those who intend to visit their relatives who are Chinese citizens residing in China or foreigners with permanent residence in China. The intended duration of stay in China is no more than 180 days.

For L - Issued to those who go to China for tourism

Which is more appropriate for your circumstances?

The length of the validity of your visa, as well as the authorized stay, is at the discretion of the consulate, and may depend on your past record of visa usage.

you said:

The Q2 invitation letter instructions say the inviter should list “current address in China.”

I think the invitation letter from relatives for an L visa would pretty much be the same as a Q2 invitation letter.

I don't think your wife would qualify as an "inviter".

You can apply for a 10 year Q2 with up to 180 days length of stay. If they think a shorter length of stay and/or an L visa is more appropriate, they'll issue that instead.

I don't think the "official seal" is required, but if you really want one, you can have the invitation letter issued as a white book (not recommended).

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Hemutian]

1 hour ago, Randy W said:

Okay.

For a Q2 - Issued to those who intend to visit their relatives who are Chinese citizens residing in China or foreigners with permanent residence in China. The intended duration of stay in China is no more than 180 days.

For L - Issued to those who go to China for tourism

Which is more appropriate for your circumstances?

The length of the validity of your visa, as well as the authorized stay, is at the discretion of the consulate, and may depend on your past record of visa usage.

I think the invitation letter from relatives for an L visa would pretty much be the same as a Q2 invitation letter.

I don't think your wife would qualify as an "inviter".

You can apply for a 10 year Q2 with up to 180 days length of stay. If they think a shorter length of stay and/or an L visa is more appropriate, they'll issue that instead.

I don't think the "official seal" is required, but if you really want one, you can have the invitation letter issued as a white book (not recommended).

 

We're planning to travel to China for 3 weeks. About 1 week of that time would be visiting her family, and the other 2 weeks would be visiting her friends and traveling. So, purely based on the way we're spending time, I'd say that L might be more appropriate than Q2. However, I just wonder if the consular official sees that we're planning to visit relatives, and then thinks well we should be Q2 instead of L. I guess I don't have to worry about what they think, though. They'll use their discretion, and either way, it doesn't really matter for my son. 

I think we'll have my wife's brother be the "inviter". That seems safer since he actually lives in China. 

The official seal requirement is probably only if the inviter is a travel agency, which is not the case for us. 

Thanks, Randy. I remember you giving us lots of advice 4 years ago when my wife was still a K1 applicant.

Now she's 2.5 years into her green card and almost eligible for citizenship! Time flies

 

[Randy W]

Yes - I think you'll find the whole process to be fairly straight forward. Just jump right in. They'll help you out where it's needed.

Good luck, welcome back, and come on by more often!

[Randy W]

12 hours ago, Hemutian said:

We're planning to travel to China for 3 weeks. About 1 week of that time would be visiting her family, and the other 2 weeks would be visiting her friends and traveling. So, purely based on the way we're spending time, I'd say that L might be more appropriate than Q2. However, I just wonder if the consular official sees that we're planning to visit relatives, and then thinks well we should be Q2 instead of L. I guess I don't have to worry about what they think, though. They'll use their discretion, and either way, it doesn't really matter for my son. 

I think we'll have my wife's brother be the "inviter". That seems safer since he actually lives in China. 

The official seal requirement is probably only if the inviter is a travel agency, which is not the case for us. 

Thanks, Randy. I remember you giving us lots of advice 4 years ago when my wife was still a K1 applicant.

Now she's 2.5 years into her green card and almost eligible for citizenship! Time flies

 

Oh - you may need to furnish proof of your wife's green card status at the time of the child's birth. As long as the green card shows a "Since" date prior to the child's birth, that's all you need.

Otherwise, they may try to sell you a "travel permit" - they don't give visas to anyone they consider a Chinese citizen. If your wife had NOT attained permanent resident status at the time of the child's birth, well, under Chinese Nationality Law (this quote is from Wikipedia) - "Children born overseas to at least one Chinese parent are also Chinese nationals, unless they are foreign citizens at birth and either parent with Chinese nationality has acquired permanent residency abroad or foreign citizenship."

The way the actual Nationality Law states that is "has settled abroad"

Article 5:    Any person born abroad whose parents are both Chinese nationals or one of whose parents is a Chinese national shall have Chinese nationality. But a person whose parents are both Chinese nationals and have both settled abroad, or one of whose parents is a Chinese national and has settled abroad, and who has acquired foreign nationality at birth shall not have Chinese nationality.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Martin B]

Have your wife call or email the consulate just in case. I was eligible for a Q2 visa but the L visa was far easier to obtain at the time I was applying (2018). If you are going to be traveling far to the consulate definitely bring everything including the kitchen sink - every potentially relevant document (original and photocopy). We saw a guy at the window next to ours turned away for missing a certificate that he claimed wasn't a requirement but they were demanding it regardless. Had to make the 5-hour drive back to his house in Michigan without a visa for his kid (it was quite a loud scene).  And I agree with Randy about the travel book/visa situation - your kid should get a visa, not travel permit. 

[Hemutian]

16 hours ago, Randy W said:

Oh - you may need to furnish proof of your wife's green card status at the time of the child's birth. As long as the green card shows a "Since" date prior to the child's birth, that's all you need.

Otherwise, they may try to sell you a "travel permit" - they don't give visas to anyone they consider a Chinese citizen. If your wife had NOT attained permanent resident status at the time of the child's birth, well, under Chinese Nationality Law (this quote is from Wikipedia) - "Children born overseas to at least one Chinese parent are also Chinese nationals, unless they are foreign citizens at birth and either parent with Chinese nationality has acquired permanent residency abroad or foreign citizenship."

The way the actual Nationality Law states that is "has settled abroad"

Article 5:    Any person born abroad whose parents are both Chinese nationals or one of whose parents is a Chinese national shall have Chinese nationality. But a person whose parents are both Chinese nationals and have both settled abroad, or one of whose parents is a Chinese national and has settled abroad, and who has acquired foreign nationality at birth shall not have Chinese nationality.

Thanks for this advice. 

My wife DID have green card status at the time of our son's birth, so I believe that means my son is only a US citizen and not a Chinese citizen.

 

[Randy W]

4 minutes ago, Hemutian said:

Thanks for this advice. 

My wife DID have green card status at the time of our son's birth, so I believe that means my son is only a US citizen and not a Chinese citizen.

 

Yes, but they will ASSUME he is a Chinese citizen until they see the date on her card.

[Hemutian]

On 8/20/2023 at 9:12 PM, Randy W said:

Yes, but they will ASSUME he is a Chinese citizen until they see the date on her card.

Hi again Randy.

I thought of another detail related to my wife's green card. As you probably know, the processing time/waiting time for "Removal of Conditions" right now is very long. We sent in her ROC application in October 2022, 90 days before the Expiration Date written physically on her Green Card (January 2023). The current estimate is August 2024 before it's approved.

So, her Green Card that we're going to bring to my son's visa appointment appears as if it's Expired.

Of course, we have her I-797 from DHS which states that her Green Card is extended for 24 months (or January 2025). 

We'll rely on US Immigration letting her back into the Country after our trip to China with the combination of her Expired Green Card and the I-797 letter.

I just wonder if the Chinese side is familiar with the I-797 letter and will allow it. Or do I need to have it translated into Chinese? Have you heard of anyone with travel experience to China in this situation?

 

Thanks

[Randy W]

2 hours ago, Hemutian said:

Hi again Randy.

I thought of another detail related to my wife's green card. As you probably know, the processing time/waiting time for "Removal of Conditions" right now is very long. We sent in her ROC application in October 2022, 90 days before the Expiration Date written physically on her Green Card (January 2023). The current estimate is August 2024 before it's approved.

So, her Green Card that we're going to bring to my son's visa appointment appears as if it's Expired.

Of course, we have her I-797 from DHS which states that her Green Card is extended for 24 months (or January 2025). 

We'll rely on US Immigration letting her back into the Country after our trip to China with the combination of her Expired Green Card and the I-797 letter.

I just wonder if the Chinese side is familiar with the I-797 letter and will allow it. Or do I need to have it translated into Chinese? Have you heard of anyone with travel experience to China in this situation?

 

Thanks

Yes, that happens from time to time. Someone at check-in is denied a boarding pass because their green card is out of date, even after being shown the letter. Just call a supervisor and explain it to them. Having a translated copy of the extension letter may be a good idea.

The absolute worst case here would involve having to get a "pro-forma" visa from the American consulate - this would be a visitor's visa (for America) placed in her Chinese passport. Seems like I remember someone doing this once, but I don't remember the circumstances.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Hemutian]

15 hours ago, Randy W said:

Yes, that happens from time to time. Someone at check-in is denied a boarding pass because their green card is out of date, even after being shown the letter. Just call a supervisor and explain it to them. Having a translated copy of the extension letter may be a good idea.

The absolute worst case here would involve having to get a "pro-forma" visa from the American consulate - this would be a visitor's visa (for America) placed in her Chinese passport. Seems like I remember someone doing this once, but I don't remember the circumstances.

Oh, I was asking about when we apply for my son's visa at the Chinese consulate in San Francisco later this week.

But you're talking about once we're in China and checking in for our return flight to the US? Our return flight leaves from Hong Kong, not mainland China, so I don't think this should be a problem. 

 

[Randy W]

10 hours ago, Hemutian said:

Oh, I was asking about when we apply for my son's visa at the Chinese consulate in San Francisco later this week.

But you're talking about once we're in China and checking in for our return flight to the US? Our return flight leaves from Hong Kong, not mainland China, so I don't think this should be a problem. 

 

Just be prepared with the letter - they ARE concerned with LEGAL PRESENCE, in addition to the "permanent resident since" date.

And just be prepared also when arriving at the Hong Kong airport to return to the US. The people at the airline counter don't always understand the extension letter, as I've said before.

Yes - it SHOULDN'T be a problem, especially if you are prepared to deal with it if it is.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Randy W (see edit history)

[newacct]

On 8/26/2023 at 7:23 PM, Hemutian said:

Of course, we have her I-797 from DHS which states that her Green Card is extended for 24 months (or January 2025).

She should have gotten an updated I-751 receipt which should serve as a 48-month extension letter.