Presidential Proclamation on the Suspension of Entry of Immigrants ...

[KevinNelson]

Okay... Typically I support our President, especially when it comes to illegal immigration.

 

Presidential Proclamation on the Suspension of Entry of Immigrants Who Will Financially Burden the United States Healthcare System

 

BUT THIS...

 

My step-son will probably get his green card under older rules within the next six months. However:

• There are virtually NO non-ACA health insurance plans available anymore
• To be on non-ACA insurance in California, a couple has to earn well over $68,000 per year, nearly four times the poverty line, above the median American household income of nearly $64,000
• His English fluency may not be good enough for a great job until after he has been here for over six months
• He is a university graduate in civil engineering, which means he is currently enslaved to 72+ hour work weeks in China
• We do not know if he will need to have that insurance purchased before he comes to California

All I know is this: If we have to buy him non-ACA insurance in California, with the horrible coverage like we have now, we will have to pay over 70% of our current gross income, which is well over 160% the poverty line for a couple, for his insurance alone.

 

I approve of actions against illegal, law-breaking, immigrants, for they have been the bane of our country. But to attack legal immigrants and their families this way is over the top.

 

What are our options?

[Randy W]

From the proclamation

Immigrant visa applicants will have to demonstrate that they will be covered by health insurance within thirty days of entering the country or have the financial resources to pay for medical costs.

• Applicants will be required to meet these requirements before being issued an immigrant visa.
• A number of exceptions will be made, such as for children of American citizens.

What are/were your plans for insuring him before the proclamation?

Demonstrating that " they will be covered by health insurance within thirty days of entering the country" would seem to be a bizarre hoop to have to jump through.

A consular officer would determine if an applicant met the requirements before issuing a visa and that the secretary of state might "establish standards and procedures."

We may not know anything more until the Nov. 3 date of activation.

I'm not sure that there is any reason why he wouldn't be able to purchase ACA insurance upon arrival. The proclamation covers immigrant visa applicants only.

[Randy W]

This may turn out to be one of those things simply intended to appeal to his base, and will turn out to be toothless.

 

You might get a quote from an insurance agent (or an existing family policy) to use for his interview. Once he's here, I doubt that there will be any restriction on what he can purchase.

 

They can't - and don't (at least so far) - deny benefits to those who are eligible for them.

 

Just proceed with your plans and make sure those plans include insurance.

 

We'll know more later, and I'll be sure to post it here.

[Randy W]

Someone on reddit suggested traveler's insurance - lol.

[Greg.D.]

I am 99% sure the exec order said "no marketplace coverage". Since the mandate is gone, it would have been reasonable for the young guy to not have insurance. Kevin's point was clear: they can't even pretend to be able to insure him at what would probably be approaching $2000/month and, since he doesn't have the promise of a job (yet) they'll have to be able to show how they can buy health insurance for him.

 

It's just mean and anti-immigrantion.

[Randy W]

Immigrant visa applicants will have to demonstrate that they will be covered by health insurance within thirty days of entering the country or have the financial resources to pay for medical costs.

 

 

 

How can they POSSIBLY do this ?? This is a hurdle to jump over at the Consulate, through a determination made by the Visa Officer under guidelines which have not been established.

 

My guess is that all they can do is require you to show a policy that the immigrant will be eligible for and "intends" to buy.

 

Can they force them to actually BUY this policy, and enforce that they do so ? I doubt it.

 

Can they tell the immigrant that No, they aren't eligible for a benefit that they ARE eligible for under existing law (Obamacare) ? I doubt it.

 

Does this proclamation affect anyone once they're in the United States? I don't think so.

 

Will there be any follow up to make sure that they bought the policy that they claimed to "intend" to buy ? I doubt it. Don't forget how the Republicans squawked about the Obamacare personal mandate.

 

How this all comes out in the wash remains to be seen - beginning on Nov. 3.

 

My guess is that the Visa Officers won't have adequate guidelines on how to make this determination.

 

My best advice is to have plans for insurance ready to take to the interview. We need SOME sort of information on how to jump through this hoop.

 

Then wait and see what the options are upon arrival.

 

My guess is that NO, they won't be able to block Obamacare for these people

[Allon]

I agree with Randy. The entrance officer has wide leeway to make determinations but they must be grounded in regulatory mandates, albeit all are written by blindfolded monkeys. (Believe me, I had to work with them. Government "regulations" publications are so poorly written as to be useless.) It usually turns out that the officer makes his own determination. If it goes bad for you, I advise being ready with a lawyer. I had one and we almost sued.

 

I seriously doubt those regulations will stand up in court by the time your son hits the border. Just be ready, as Randy says, to demonstrate how he will be insured.

[KevinNelson]

From the proclamation

 

Immigrant visa applicants will have to demonstrate that they will be covered by health insurance within thirty days of entering the country or have the financial resources to pay for medical costs.

• Applicants will be required to meet these requirements before being issued an immigrant visa.
• A number of exceptions will be made, such as for children of American citizens.

 

 

What are/were your plans for insuring him before the proclamation?

 

Demonstrating that " they will be covered by health insurance within thirty days of entering the country" would seem to be a bizarre hoop to have to jump through.

 

 

A consular officer would determine if an applicant met the requirements before issuing a visa and that the secretary of state might "establish standards and procedures."

 

We may not know anything more until the Nov. 3 date of activation.

 

I'm not sure that there is any reason why he wouldn't be able to purchase ACA insurance upon arrival. The proclamation covers immigrant visa applicants only.

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/presidential-proclamation-suspension-entry-immigrants-will-financially-burden-united-states-healthcare-system/

 

Actually, the proclamation directly states that allowable health plans are "(ii) an unsubsidized health plan offered in the individual market within a State;" This excludes any Obama-plan health insurance, which is practically the only type offered to anybody earning less than $70,000 per year. Every commentator has called attention to this fact.

Non-ACA insurance by law must be as comprehensive as any ACA insurance, which in California right now is well over $2,100 per month. Multiply that by 12, and you get an amount that is $7,200 more than the federal poverty level. That is also about 70% of our current pretax income.

Another thing: My stepson will be 26 next year. He is university educated and has been working as an enslaved civil engineer more than 72 hours per week.

[KevinNelson]

I agree with Randy. The entrance officer has wide leeway to make determinations but they must be grounded in regulatory mandates, albeit all are written by blindfolded monkeys. (Believe me, I had to work with them. Government "regulations" publications are so poorly written as to be useless.) It usually turns out that the officer makes his own determination. If it goes bad for you, I advise being ready with a lawyer. I had one and we almost sued.

 

I seriously doubt those regulations will stand up in court by the time your son hits the border. Just be ready, as Randy says, to demonstrate how he will be insured.

 

According to how the proclamation is worded, my stepson will not have the opportunity to step up to the border. He will have to show his ability in China, probably in Shenzhen. The entrance officer does nothing more than check for the visa.

 

My wife and I will have had to purchase the insurance before he sees that officer, then we will have to pay until he gets his own job-based insurance or student insurance.

 

I don't know about you, but when I filed my tax return last year, I had to file for evidence of insurance. When the United States dropped its mandate, the State of California decided it will impose its own mandate: insurance will still have to be minimally proven through the state tax return.

 

So, how would they know my stepson didn't have health insurance? Two ways: His first visit to the emergency room which causes us to lose everything, including him through deportation, or through living in California.

 

 

[newacct]

Actually, the proclamation directly states that allowable health plans are "(ii) an unsubsidized health plan offered in the individual market within a State;" This excludes any Obama-plan health insurance, which is practically the only type offered to anybody earning less than $70,000 per year. Every commentator has called attention to this fact.

 

 

I don't see how this excludes all Obamacare plans. Anybody who is legally present in the US, regardless of income, who does not qualify for premium-free Medicare, is allowed to get an Obamacare (marketplace) plan, although some will qualify for subsidies (premium tax credits) and some will not. Those who get Obamacare plans who do not qualify for subsidies are clearly getting an "unsubsidized health plan". Those who get Obamacare plans who do qualify for subsidies can, I believe, decline to claim the subsidy, so it would be "unsubsidized".

Edited October 9, 2019 by newacct (see edit history)

[Randy W]

But again, wait and see. The proclamation states only that the intending immigrant be able "to demonstrate that they will be covered by health insurance within thirty days of entering the country".

 

I don't think there's any possible way that they will be required to show a purchased plan.

 

Then, once they are in the country, I don't think that there is any possible way that this proclamation will still apply. They will NOT be able to change Obamacare eligibility requirements.

 

The proclamation does NOT address insurance requirements once you are in the country, except for the "within thirty days of entering the country" stipulation.

 

If you really want to purchase insurance in advance, purchase a short term traveler's insurance policy, and then wait and see what he will be eligible for when it comes time to renew.

 

This policy needs a LOT of shaking out to be done, beginning with the interview, and exactly what you will be expected to show.

[KevinNelson]

 

Actually, the proclamation directly states that allowable health plans are "(ii) an unsubsidized health plan offered in the individual market within a State;" This excludes any Obama-plan health insurance, which is practically the only type offered to anybody earning less than $70,000 per year. Every commentator has called attention to this fact.

 

 

I don't see how this excludes all Obamacare plans. Anybody who is legally present in the US, regardless of income, who does not qualify for premium-free Medicare, is allowed to get an Obamacare (marketplace) plan, although some will qualify for subsidies (premium tax credits) and some will not. Those who get Obamacare plans who do not qualify for subsidies are clearly getting an "unsubsidized health plan". Those who get Obamacare plans who do qualify for subsidies can, I believe, decline to claim the subsidy, so it would be "unsubsidized".

 

 

The problem will be this: "What is a subsidized plan?" ACA is clearly a subsidized plan that even heavily advertises as such. They are always emphasizing how much you are saving through government subsidy each time you go through the annual enrollment process.

 

Only unsubsidized plans will qualify.

[KevinNelson]

But again, wait and see. The proclamation states only that the intending immigrant be able "to demonstrate that they will be covered by health insurance within thirty days of entering the country".

 

I don't think there's any possible way that they will be required to show a purchased plan.

 

Then, once they are in the country, I don't think that there is any possible way that this proclamation will still apply. They will NOT be able to change Obamacare eligibility requirements.

 

The proclamation does NOT address insurance requirements once you are in the country, except for the "within thirty days of entering the country" stipulation.

 

If you really want to purchase insurance in advance, purchase a short term traveler's insurance policy, and then wait and see what he will be eligible for when it comes time to renew.

 

This policy needs a LOT of shaking out to be done, beginning with the interview, and exactly what you will be expected to show.

 

"Sec. 3. Implementation and Enforcement. (a) An alien subject to this proclamation must establish that he or she meets its requirements, to the satisfaction of a consular officer, before the adjudication and issuance of an immigrant visa. The Secretary of State may establish standards and procedures governing such determinations."

Have you ever heard of consular officers being within the United States?

"(vii) a visitor health insurance plan that provides adequate coverage for medical care for a minimum of 364 days — or until the beginning of planned, extended travel outside the United States;"

Is 364 days "short term" to anyone here?

Edited October 9, 2019 by KevinNelson (see edit history)

[Randy W]

 

But again, wait and see. The proclamation states only that the intending immigrant be able "to demonstrate that they will be covered by health insurance within thirty days of entering the country".

 

I don't think there's any possible way that they will be required to show a purchased plan.

 

Then, once they are in the country, I don't think that there is any possible way that this proclamation will still apply. They will NOT be able to change Obamacare eligibility requirements.

 

The proclamation does NOT address insurance requirements once you are in the country, except for the "within thirty days of entering the country" stipulation.

 

If you really want to purchase insurance in advance, purchase a short term traveler's insurance policy, and then wait and see what he will be eligible for when it comes time to renew.

 

This policy needs a LOT of shaking out to be done, beginning with the interview, and exactly what you will be expected to show.

 

"Sec. 3. Implementation and Enforcement. (a) An alien subject to this proclamation must establish that he or she meets its requirements, to the satisfaction of a consular officer, before the adjudication and issuance of an immigrant visa. The Secretary of State may establish standards and procedures governing such determinations."

Have you ever heard of consular officers being within the United States?

"(vii) a visitor health insurance plan that provides adequate coverage for medical care for a minimum of 364 days — or until the beginning of planned, extended travel outside the United States;"

Is 364 days "short term" to anyone here?

 

 

 

Of course not. This policy applies to intending immigrants only, not those who have already been admitted.

 

There is no requirement that you purchase the insurance in advance to show at the interview.

 

Wait and see how it shakes out. There are MANY questions about this policy. Don't assume it's going to take effect within the next six months.

[KevinNelson]

This whole thing is really stressing out my wife and me.