"Just kill me, just kill me"

[tsap seui]

Yesterday afternoon I picked my wife up at Dulles Airport, outside DC. She flew 14 1/2 hours to come home from China, on United Airlines. I use them to go down under to NZ and Aussie land on my/ now our trips down under. I used them to go to China 7 times and my wife has flown back home to see her folks 3 times since she came to America.

 

Overall, I would say that we both give United Airlines a thumbs up on their performance. http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/af635d1548e2975b638248ef278493191436864.jpgIf we had an erection icon, I'd give them that too.

In 20 plus years of my using United for going to far off destinations, and in my wife's 10 years on United, I must say, between us, we've only been dragged kicking and screaming off of 3 flights...now that is out 300 plus take off and landings on United planes. Not a bad record. Can someone cue up the Marine Hymn to play in the background as people read this post?

[warpedbored]

Sarcastic statements like "now it's the president's fault" is too political. I personally find that offensive. This is a serious issue where a passenger was treated very badly. Keep your political views out of it.

[danb]

The story will not stop and go away. At least for a little while. A lot of twists and turns and hiccups to it. Chinese, Weibo, Vietnam, doctors, lost/ suspended licences, drug dealings, gay lovers, informers, hospitals and fancy lawyers and, oh yeah, there is that passenger being dragged of the plane, twice. I wonder if there will be a movie.The public is interested in the story for now. I wonder if this incident will be lost in this whole mess. Still think that United has and continue to handle this incident poorly. Danb

[dnoblett]

Ok here is a well written point of view from an insider.

 

 

 

I Know You’re Mad at United but… (Thoughts from a Pilot Wife About Flight 3411)

 

If there’s one thing I have learned over the years, it’s that there are always two sides to every story.

 

On April 9th, a very unfortunate incident played out on United Flight 3411, the video of which has since gone viral causing a mass social media uprising with an ‘off-with-their-heads’ mentality. I mean, across the board. Fire ’em all and let the gods sort it out later.

 

Look, I get it. When I first saw the video I was appalled too. To say that it was inflammatory would be putting it mildly. But it was also a situation that was escalated far beyond the boundaries of necessity.

 

If a federal law enforcement officer asks me to exit a plane, no matter how royally pissed off I am, I’m going to do it and then seek other means of legal reimbursement. True story.

 

Knowing what I know about airport security, I’m certainly not going to run back into a secured, federally restricted area at an airport flailing my arms and screaming like a banshee…because, you know, that just happens to be breaking a major federal Homeland Security law.

 

But that’s just me. Obviously.

 

The moment I made that particular ill-advised choice, I would become an immediate and imminent threat to the aircraft’s security. That’s kind of a big deal. I mean, come on, I once actually had to remove my infant son’s socks because they mimicked little baby sneakers. These guys mean business.

 

I didn’t like it. I thought it was just plain stupid, honestly. But instead of pitching a massive fit, refusing to comply, and bolting through the TSA checkpoint like an out-of-control toddler, I did the big girl thing–sucked it up, removed the offensive socks, and went on with my happy life, sans being tackled and dragged through the airport in handcuffs by a bunch of big men with guns.

 

Because if you choose to take advantage of the services the airport provides, you play by their rules.

 

I know you’re all out there screaming that the ‘rules’ are unfair, but I am a pilot wife. I remember 9/11. Do you? I want my husband, the father of my children, to come home. I want you to get home. That law exists to protect my husband. And your wife. And your grandmother. And your child. And you. I, for one, am glad for the law.

 

I’m not here to dispute the facts of 3411 with you. I am not interested in getting into an argument of opinion with anyone. We’re all entitled to our own. I’m not arguing that what happened wasn’t completely terrible–it was, on multiple levels. But I am suggesting that the general public take another look at the situation, ask a few more questions, gather a few more facts, and then create a less hostile and more intellectually wrought opinion about what happened.

 

Because the media is giving you just enough information to keep you enraged–enough to keep their ratings up.

 

Things to consider:

 

1. “You can’t just kick a paying customer off the plane!” Psssst! It’s in the fine print. They can, indeed, do just that. And it’s not an airline specific rule, it’s a commercial aviation rule. Every ticket you purchase comes with a plethora of fine print–you know, the stuff we just click ‘next’ on without actually reading what we are agreeing to. Yeah, that. Well, it’s in there, and you checked the ‘I agree’ box when you purchased your ticket. You can read about it and oh-so-much-more here. Kind of makes you want to read all those tiny words on your next phone update before you click ‘I agree’, huh? You should. United did not break any law, and he agreed to the policy and possibility of involuntary bump when he bought his ticket. And so do you.
   
2. “Kicking a paying customer off an airplane!? I’m taking my business to Southwest!” Ummmm, okay. But just be sure you understand that every major airline, Southwest included, has a similar policy for involuntary bumping in a ‘must ride’ scenario. Don’t believe me? It’s called the contract of carriage. If you’re really bored, you can read Southwest’s here. Or Delta’s here. Believe me, it’s in there. This could have been any airline. In fact, it happens all the time. Most people just don’t wrestle the feds in the aisle.
   
3. “So what’s this ‘must ride’ nonsense anyway? They shouldn’t bump a paying customer for a free employee ride!” I’m afraid you’re going to have to take this up with the federal government, not United. And it’s actually pretty important to you as an airline traveler anyway. They were not ‘freeloading home’. That’s called non-rev and they have to wait in line behind your checkbook and often don’t make it home to their families if flights are booked (believe me, I know). No, this was a must fly, a positive space situation. In layman terms, it means that a crew must be flown to an airport to man a flight in order to avoid cancellation of said flight due to crew unavailability. This is a federal DOT regulation, not an airline one. The airlines are required to do so to avoid disruption of air traffic. In other words, if there are no willing volunteers and they need seats to get a crew somewhere to avoid disruption of aviation flow, they can, will, must by federal regulation bump people for the better good of the 1000’s. Why? Because one cancelled flight has a serious domino effect in the delicate, complicated world of connections and aviation law.
   
4. “It’s the airline’s fault for not planning better!” You obviously have no clue about the complexities of aviation travel and should do some research. There are about a million and one things that can cause a crew shortage including but not limited to weather, maintenance, weather, connecting flight delays, weather, FAA timeout regs, and did I mention weather? I wish I could control Mother Nature because I would be one filthy rich person. But I can’t. And neither can United. So they inconvenience one, or four, to keep hundreds on track. Do the math. And of course, if we were on the other end of this thing, we’d be tirading and blowing up the internet because United didn’t bump a passenger to make sure our flight didn’t get cancelled and left hundreds stranded. Damned if you do; damned if you don’t. We’re a fickle crowd, we social media folks.
   
5. "They shouldn’t have picked the minority Chinese doctor! It’s racist.” That’s just silly. Though federal regulation demands they involuntarily bump to prevent interruption of flights when necessary, each airline does have the leniency to determine how they choose the bumped passengers. They did not play spin the bottle or walk down the aisle looking for the Asian guy. Use your heads, people! There is a computerized algorithm that takes into account price of ticket, how long ago it was purchased, whether or not they can get the passenger to their destination in a timely manner, etc. It wasn’t an ‘Asian thing.’ Stop, people. Just stop.
   
6. “United should go under for assaulting that passenger! Fire the entire crew!” Read the facts. United never touched the passenger. In fact, by all witness accounts, the United flight crew remained calm and pleasant throughout the entire event, never laying hands on the passenger. They followed protocol as required by law. Once law enforcement became involved (also as required by federal protocol), United stepped out of the decision-making process. They had nothing to do with the rest. The passenger was forcibly removed by federal aviation security (the disturbing clip that everyone is talking about) after running back into the secured area after being escorted out once. Once he did that, like it or not, they (law enforcement) were under full discretion of the law to apply necessary force to remove the threat. I’m not saying it’s pretty, but the only one who actually broke a law was the passenger. There’s a reason for these laws–it’s called 9/11. We can’t have it both ways. But by all means, let’s berate and punish an entire flight crew–in fact thousands of pilots, FA’s, gate attendants, ground crew, etc.–because it makes us all feel a little better.
   
7. “You piece of **it!” I get that the passengers were upset, angry, maybe even confused. I get that you are too. After all, media is tossing you out chunks of bloody meat like you’re a pack of starving wolves. But I’m seriously disgusted that the poor must ride crew that had to take those seats after the unfortunate mess that unraveled were verbally abused and threatened. Can you imagine the very uncomfortable position they were in? Then they were demeaned, belittled, threatened. Along with many others all over the internet and airports today. They were and are men and women doing their jobs to feed their families. Just. Like. You. They didn’t have a choice. They didn’t ask for this. They didn’t assault anyone. They are not a corporation; they are individuals who need a job. They are my friends and maybe even my husband. There’s a very fine line between what you despise and becoming what you despise. Many of the comments and actions I have seen perpetrated against United employees cross it. Don’t become what you hate.

Like I said, I know you’re mad at United, but there’s much more to the story than hits the media fan.

I truly hope that this gives you something to chew on and gives you a smidgen more insight into the complexities of aviation. I’m not making excuses. I think there were bad decisions made on both sides. However, I am saying there are always two sides to every story. Make sure you consider them both.

https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress.com/2017/04/11/i-know-youre-mad-at-united-but-thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/

[Allon]

I think the real answer is planning, as usual. We use computers for a lot of things, including how many seast are available on the aircraft before boarding. And the deadhead crew should have been identified long before. Computers do that too. They can calculate how many deadheads are coming through and try and put them somewhere that is not so disruptive.

 

But it gets back to when deregulation started. Overbooking became allowed and the resultant power to involuntarily remove paying customers became legal. That time also suggests when more baggage has been lost because airline schedules are run on a last minute basis and rules that say baggage follows with the flight of the passenger went out the window. There are other rules too.

[tsap seui]

 

Ok here is a well written point of view from an insider.

 

 

 

I Know You’re Mad at United but… (Thoughts from a Pilot Wife About Flight 3411)

 

If there’s one thing I have learned over the years, it’s that there are always two sides to every story.

 

On April 9th, a very unfortunate incident played out on United Flight 3411, the video of which has since gone viral causing a mass social media uprising with an ‘off-with-their-heads’ mentality. I mean, across the board. Fire ’em all and let the gods sort it out later.

 

Look, I get it. When I first saw the video I was appalled too. To say that it was inflammatory would be putting it mildly. But it was also a situation that was escalated far beyond the boundaries of necessity.

 

If a federal law enforcement officer asks me to exit a plane, no matter how royally pissed off I am, I’m going to do it and then seek other means of legal reimbursement. True story.

 

Knowing what I know about airport security, I’m certainly not going to run back into a secured, federally restricted area at an airport flailing my arms and screaming like a banshee…because, you know, that just happens to be breaking a major federal Homeland Security law.

 

But that’s just me. Obviously.

 

The moment I made that particular ill-advised choice, I would become an immediate and imminent threat to the aircraft’s security. That’s kind of a big deal. I mean, come on, I once actually had to remove my infant son’s socks because they mimicked little baby sneakers. These guys mean business.

 

I didn’t like it. I thought it was just plain stupid, honestly. But instead of pitching a massive fit, refusing to comply, and bolting through the TSA checkpoint like an out-of-control toddler, I did the big girl thing–sucked it up, removed the offensive socks, and went on with my happy life, sans being tackled and dragged through the airport in handcuffs by a bunch of big men with guns.

 

Because if you choose to take advantage of the services the airport provides, you play by their rules.

 

I know you’re all out there screaming that the ‘rules’ are unfair, but I am a pilot wife. I remember 9/11. Do you? I want my husband, the father of my children, to come home. I want you to get home. That law exists to protect my husband. And your wife. And your grandmother. And your child. And you. I, for one, am glad for the law.

 

I’m not here to dispute the facts of 3411 with you. I am not interested in getting into an argument of opinion with anyone. We’re all entitled to our own. I’m not arguing that what happened wasn’t completely terrible–it was, on multiple levels. But I am suggesting that the general public take another look at the situation, ask a few more questions, gather a few more facts, and then create a less hostile and more intellectually wrought opinion about what happened.

 

Because the media is giving you just enough information to keep you enraged–enough to keep their ratings up.

 

Things to consider:

 

1. “You can’t just kick a paying customer off the plane!” Psssst! It’s in the fine print. They can, indeed, do just that. And it’s not an airline specific rule, it’s a commercial aviation rule. Every ticket you purchase comes with a plethora of fine print–you know, the stuff we just click ‘next’ on without actually reading what we are agreeing to. Yeah, that. Well, it’s in there, and you checked the ‘I agree’ box when you purchased your ticket. You can read about it and oh-so-much-more here. Kind of makes you want to read all those tiny words on your next phone update before you click ‘I agree’, huh? You should. United did not break any law, and he agreed to the policy and possibility of involuntary bump when he bought his ticket. And so do you.

2. “Kicking a paying customer off an airplane!? I’m taking my business to Southwest!” Ummmm, okay. But just be sure you understand that every major airline, Southwest included, has a similar policy for involuntary bumping in a ‘must ride’ scenario. Don’t believe me? It’s called the contract of carriage. If you’re really bored, you can read Southwest’s here. Or Delta’s here. Believe me, it’s in there. This could have been any airline. In fact, it happens all the time. Most people just don’t wrestle the feds in the aisle.

3. “So what’s this ‘must ride’ nonsense anyway? They shouldn’t bump a paying customer for a free employee ride!” I’m afraid you’re going to have to take this up with the federal government, not United. And it’s actually pretty important to you as an airline traveler anyway. They were not ‘freeloading home’. That’s called non-rev and they have to wait in line behind your checkbook and often don’t make it home to their families if flights are booked (believe me, I know). No, this was a must fly, a positive space situation. In layman terms, it means that a crew must be flown to an airport to man a flight in order to avoid cancellation of said flight due to crew unavailability. This is a federal DOT regulation, not an airline one. The airlines are required to do so to avoid disruption of air traffic. In other words, if there are no willing volunteers and they need seats to get a crew somewhere to avoid disruption of aviation flow, they can, will, must by federal regulation bump people for the better good of the 1000’s. Why? Because one cancelled flight has a serious domino effect in the delicate, complicated world of connections and aviation law.

4. “It’s the airline’s fault for not planning better!” You obviously have no clue about the complexities of aviation travel and should do some research. There are about a million and one things that can cause a crew shortage including but not limited to weather, maintenance, weather, connecting flight delays, weather, FAA timeout regs, and did I mention weather? I wish I could control Mother Nature because I would be one filthy rich person. But I can’t. And neither can United. So they inconvenience one, or four, to keep hundreds on track. Do the math. And of course, if we were on the other end of this thing, we’d be tirading and blowing up the internet because United didn’t bump a passenger to make sure our flight didn’t get cancelled and left hundreds stranded. Damned if you do; damned if you don’t. We’re a fickle crowd, we social media folks.

5. "They shouldn’t have picked the minority Chinese doctor! It’s racist.” That’s just silly. Though federal regulation demands they involuntarily bump to prevent interruption of flights when necessary, each airline does have the leniency to determine how they choose the bumped passengers. They did not play spin the bottle or walk down the aisle looking for the Asian guy. Use your heads, people! There is a computerized algorithm that takes into account price of ticket, how long ago it was purchased, whether or not they can get the passenger to their destination in a timely manner, etc. It wasn’t an ‘Asian thing.’ Stop, people. Just stop.

6. “United should go under for assaulting that passenger! Fire the entire crew!” Read the facts. United never touched the passenger. In fact, by all witness accounts, the United flight crew remained calm and pleasant throughout the entire event, never laying hands on the passenger. They followed protocol as required by law. Once law enforcement became involved (also as required by federal protocol), United stepped out of the decision-making process. They had nothing to do with the rest. The passenger was forcibly removed by federal aviation security (the disturbing clip that everyone is talking about) after running back into the secured area after being escorted out once. Once he did that, like it or not, they (law enforcement) were under full discretion of the law to apply necessary force to remove the threat. I’m not saying it’s pretty, but the only one who actually broke a law was the passenger. There’s a reason for these laws–it’s called 9/11. We can’t have it both ways. But by all means, let’s berate and punish an entire flight crew–in fact thousands of pilots, FA’s, gate attendants, ground crew, etc.–because it makes us all feel a little better.

7. “You piece of **it!” I get that the passengers were upset, angry, maybe even confused. I get that you are too. After all, media is tossing you out chunks of bloody meat like you’re a pack of starving wolves. But I’m seriously disgusted that the poor must ride crew that had to take those seats after the unfortunate mess that unraveled were verbally abused and threatened. Can you imagine the very uncomfortable position they were in? Then they were demeaned, belittled, threatened. Along with many others all over the internet and airports today. They were and are men and women doing their jobs to feed their families. Just. Like. You. They didn’t have a choice. They didn’t ask for this. They didn’t assault anyone. They are not a corporation; they are individuals who need a job. They are my friends and maybe even my husband. There’s a very fine line between what you despise and becoming what you despise. Many of the comments and actions I have seen perpetrated against United employees cross it. Don’t become what you hate.

Like I said, I know you’re mad at United, but there’s much more to the story than hits the media fan.

 

I truly hope that this gives you something to chew on and gives you a smidgen more insight into the complexities of aviation. I’m not making excuses. I think there were bad decisions made on both sides. However, I am saying there are always two sides to every story. Make sure you consider them both.

https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress.com/2017/04/11/i-know-youre-mad-at-united-but-thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/

 

Great article, Dan. It answers a lot of the questions that non-frequent flyers really have no clues about, until they see a dramatic incident like this.

 

I was once working in a convention in Las Vegas. I had to leave on a late flight for LAX where I was catching a United flight down to Sydney to meet up with the down under team to work a show in Brisbane. We finished up that evening in Las Vegas and I raced out to airport for the short flight to LAX where I'd catch the last plane out for the evening for Sydney.

 

The plane in Las Vegas is delayed because of instrument reading problems. We got to LAX late and I ran with all of my might to the gate for Sydney. Got there with 5 or 10 minutes to go...and found I had been bumped...because I got to the gate late. My cattle class seat had been given away. I was distraught.

 

Until

 

The folks at the United gate desk gave me vouchers for an additional $800 worth of flights, put me up in a great hotel room, and ...drum roll please.....I spent the almost 16 hour flight to beautiful Sydney in a luxurous LARGE first class seat.

 

As much as I flew back then I am lucky that is only one of three of four times I got bumped, usually because of late connections. Each time iwas WAY more than compensated than Iever thought I would be. Hell, that first class seat to Sydney ran over $7 grand, Ithink. I never bought one before. I got very nice rooms, and I generaly got at least $800 in flight vouchers...which I generally used right up.

 

Bumped It happens and it is highly legal and within the rules. It sucks. Only a fool fights the rules of the law.

 

A RICH FOOL THAT IS....this character is gonna make a killing in damages from United. And think of the book deal....va va voom!!!! He hit the lottery. He was nobody's fool.

 

 

Me, I have always tried to book United first when I was flying more than 10 hours away from the west coast. I'll try even harder to book United flights. There should be fewer people to put up with on each flight, too. Yummy!!

[Randy W]

So United turns a logistical problem costing a few thousand dollars into a potentially multi-million dollar settlement, loss of business, and a public relations nightmare. There were "1001 solutions" available to them, according to one pundit - they chose what may have been the absolute worst choice, and turned a recalcitrant prisoner into a hero and a "fight the machine" icon.

 

I will give them kudos, however, for the way they handled my lost luggage. Twice, on my last trip to the U.S. Both times, once it missed my flight, they simply left it where it was, until I reported it missing. That way, they knew exactly where it was, and where to bring it to. But the second time, they forgot one of the bags a second time and had to deliver it personally to me in Yulin. They sent a guy on a bus with the bag from Hong kong to Yulin.

[Randy W]

According to this article in the SCMP, they are refunding the cost of the tickets for ALL passengers on the plane.

 

Dragged passenger David Dao begins legal action against United Airlines, as CEO tells of ‘shame’

[Randy W]

A MUCH better analysis of the legalities and mis-reporting, including the crew members showing up AFTER the plane had been boarded -

 

United Passenger “Removal”: A Reporting and Management Fail

[Greg.D.]

Randy, that link was pretty good and lucid. And, once again, you have introduced me to another good website.

 

I said in my first post at the top that the flight was not overbooked and the terms of carriage change once you have your seat..

[dnoblett]

Ok with all of this I will share a couple of my United stories.

 

First time I flew home from China on United the plane was running a little late out of Beijing, the ticketing agent warned me about this possibly causing me to miss my connecting flight so I did a little mental math and told her I think the connection would be close in Chicago but thought I could just make it so she issued me the tickets for the flight and the earlier connecting flight to Rochester out of Chicago. I boarded at Beijing and the plane did leave around an hour late. When it landed in Chicago, I cleared customs quickly, transferred bags to the domestic handlers, and sprinted through the terminal and boarded my flight to Rochester using the ticket I had, just making it with a few minutes to spare. Needless to say once I arrived in Rochester my luggage was nowhere to be seen, I asked at lost and found for United and the lady there told me they will drop them off at my home the following day. After I got home I checked my text messages and, yep while I was in-flight out of Beijing, United rebooked me on the later flight so my baggage was loaded on the later plane, and yes, they delivered my bags the following day.

 

My second United story happened the following year while traveling to China to me with my wife for her visa interview, I had booked my trip to fly there just before Valentines Day, they weather delayed my flights and United sent me a text message informing me of the delays, rebooking me for a day later, I contacted my China Travel agent and they rescheduled my domestic flight and transportation for me.

When I did fly the next day, I got to Chicago, and United was holding the 777 for other delayed connections, so we left Chicago about 30 min late with only 1/3 of the passengers boarded, that was a nice flight, so many empty seats that you could flip the arm rests up and lay down across many seats and nap.

 

Never had a bad experience with United.

[Greg.D.]

Those are of course "anecdotes" - glad you have some good ones. But they're not indicative of trends. Nightmare anecdotes aren't either.

 

This recent United story is interesting as a rallying call for protesting abuse by companies of their presumed legal upper hand which, upon examination, isn't there at all. And, they really overplayed it this time. As many commentators have said, if this guy wasn't concussed and bleeding (and recorded and spread by video), this story would have been buried.

 

I try not to get my buttons pushed too much anymore, so I'm just sort of watching from the sidelines.

[tsap seui]

Ok with all of this I will share a couple of my United stories.

 

First time I flew home from China on United the plane was running a little late out of Beijing, the ticketing agent warned me about this possibly causing me to miss my connecting flight so I did a little mental math and told her I think the connection would be close in Chicago but thought I could just make it so she issued me the tickets for the flight and the earlier connecting flight to Rochester out of Chicago. I boarded at Beijing and the plane did leave around an hour late. When it landed in Chicago, I cleared customs quickly, transferred bags to the domestic handlers, and sprinted through the terminal and boarded my flight to Rochester using the ticket I had, just making it with a few minutes to spare. Needless to say once I arrived in Rochester my luggage was nowhere to be seen, I asked at lost and found for United and the lady there told me they will drop them off at my home the following day. After I got home I checked my text messages and, yep while I was in-flight out of Beijing, United rebooked me on the later flight so my baggage was loaded on the later plane, and yes, they delivered my bags the following day.

 

My second United story happened the following year while traveling to China to me with my wife for her visa interview, I had booked my trip to fly there just before Valentines Day, they weather delayed my flights and United sent me a text message informing me of the delays, rebooking me for a day later, I contacted my China Travel agent and they rescheduled my domestic flight and transportation for me.

When I did fly the next day, I got to Chicago, and United was holding the 777 for other delayed connections, so we left Chicago about 30 min late with only 1/3 of the passengers boarded, that was a nice flight, so many empty seats that you could flip the arm rests up and lay down across many seats and nap.

 

Never had a bad experience with United.

Dan, I can't say I ever had a bad experience with United either. I think the guy should get his $200,000,000 payday for his attorneys to divvie up but am I buying into the outrage and innuendo? Nah, why in the world would I? It's not like some boss at United called the cops and said, "Hey boys, we got this goofball Chinese guy in 21C. Would you go up there, beat the living shit out of him, then drag his bloody ass down the aisle, for us?"

[amberjack1234]

I never had any trouble with United either but what they did this time is way over the line. Like the cop that just beat the hell out of a jay walker. It's called excessive force for very minor offenses. Police departments in large and small police departments all over the US are starting to not go on these 140-150 mph chases endangering every car on the road because they sported a guy with his tail light out or he did not come to a full 100% stop at a stop sign.

 

 

"First of all, it’s airline spin to call this an overbooking. The statutory provision granting them the ability to deny boarding is about “OVERSALES”, specifically defines as booking more reserved confirmed seats than there are available. This is not what happened. They did not overbook the flight; they had a fully booked flight, and not only did everyone already have a reserved confirmed seat, they were all sitting in them. The law allowing them to denying boarding in the event of an oversale does not apply."

 

Over boarding issues are suppose to take place before ANYONE ever boards the plane. Now, Unites has lost over 2 billion dollars over this issue so if they had to do it all over again you can bet your ass the outcome would be different and it ain't over yet. Calling the police is the last thing that you want to do unless there is a much larger crime being committed. They half hearted offered a $800 compensation when they could have gone up to $1250. If they had done that you can bet your hiney someone would have given up 4 seats willingly. Lets see now $1250 x 4=2 billion dollars. Don't seem to add up to me. Now, guess who is going to really pay for that 2 billion dollars.

 

I just wonder if is was worth all that money to them. They thought that they would kick this guys ass and then cover it all up or never even a peep out of it. It is good to take the 1% to the pissing post sometime to let they know that they always can not get away with anything that they want to.

[amberjack1234]

Oh, I just remembered they did smash up one of my large suitcases and lost my luggage one time. I had to go to the airport myself to pick it up. Which was 2.5 hour drive one way. It was a little upsetting at the time but after arguing in a loud than usual voice so that everyone within earshot could hear me they finally, after an hour, offered me a $75 voucher for the luggage which I just purchased for that flight for $250. They also smashed up the wife's large suitcase one time too. Got nothing for that but I was able to fix it my self. Cheap Chinese luggage.