My Chinese Girlfriend Refused for 2 Visas, Next Steps?

[samcmac]

Hi,

 

This is my first time posting here. I got some bad news today: My girlfriend received the results of her Canadian Study Permit Visa that we spent two months working on, and a fair amount of money (the agent I hired charged 900.00 CAD), and the result was rejection. More specifically, her visa request was denied because she had not "satisfied" the officer that she "would leave Canada at the end of her stay."

 

I met my girlfriend a little over a year ago and we've been dating ever since. I was here teaching and taking Chinese, but I was nearing the end of my 1-year contract doing the former and preparing to return to the U.S., where I'm from. But I fell for her, and part of that I'm sure was her explaining to me that she fully planned to attend college in Toronto the following year.

 

I, reluctantly, signed on for another 6 months at my job, even though my relationship with my verbally abusive boss was devolving into something unsustainable, and she set out on the path to get her Study Visa, by taking her IELTS (she received an overall score of 6.5).

 

But in June, the situation at my job became so bad that I had to leave. My boss threatened both me and my girlfriend (who he had met on a few occasions) and demanded exorbitant amounts of money for my exit. As a result of this, we made a new plan: to visit my family in the U.S. for the summer, after which time she would return to China and secure her study visa, and I would come back with her (probably) on a tourist visa. But it wasn't to be.

 

Though my girlfriend has a friend in the U.S., who offered an invitation letter and an explanation for the visit, the tourist visa was denied after an interview at the embassy in Shanghai. This was the first disappointment. Seeing the bad situation I was in, my girlfriend's parents, who I had become close with over the previous several months (after finally meeting them), invited me to come and stay with them and my girlfriend for the summer, while my girlfriend finished the paperwork for her Study Visa, so we could leave in the fall.

 

As alluded to above, this attempt was also a failure, though a much more surprising one. I attribute it, sadly, to her age but more specifically her gender: She is 23 and unmarried, and she can not prove sufficient ties to her home country, the kind of things necessary to do this -- ownership of an apartment, a salaried job, etc. -- not being likely for anyone of her age and educational aspirations.

 

It is exceedingly frustrating that such a seemingly qualified candidate such as herself -- scored well on IELTS, has a strong high school record, has been accepted by one the universities in Toronto that is recognized by China -- would be unable to secure her study permit, not just for the impact it potentially has on our future, but on her own. This is what she's wanted since before she was with me.

 

Still the reality is, what's most important for both of us now, is staying together. I'm 27 myself and I've never loved anyone more than her, a realization I came to gradually but most assuredly. I find myself willing to stay in China even longer if I must, despite my immense desire to return to my family and friends Stateside (living in Toronto, where I've also been accepted into a post-grad program for what it's worth, would've at least put me a lot closer, and within visiting distance, to my home in Massachusetts).

 

I'm considering finding a university to go to here, or getting tutoring work, but I don't especially want to teach full-time again -- I did it for over a year, it is far from my true passion, and I don't even feel especially skilled at it, which makes me feel uncomfortable returning to that field.

 

Browsing the internet for solutions, I found this forum, and thought I would throw together a post and see what comes of it. Just looking through others' posts is something of a rude awakening, realizing that two people in love have so much difficulty being together due to the complications of immigration law. My own visa in China -- my work visa from my old job, which was never canceled -- expires here in a about 2 weeks, so there's some urgency to my situation, too.

 

Personally, I am open to marriage, and while my girlfriend is a little younger and not as accepting of the idea, she is open to it in so much as a way to get us both out of the country. But her parents are not comfortable with us resorting to this purely for this purpose -- we have their blessing entirely as a couple, but marriage is a big step for them that they want us to spend more time building to. Additionally, the research I've done so far does not suggest that marriage would solve all our problems anyway.

 

I wish to continue my education, and have my family's financial support in doing so; I don't wish to hold down a 9-to-5 job just to prove to some immigration officer that I can support the wife I was forced into marrying.

 

But I imagine the reality of everything I'm saying is all to familiar to many of you, so I'll stop here.

 

Any suggestions at all as to my situation are greatly appreciated. And any further information I can offer I will be more than happy to provide.

 

Thanks for your time,

 

- Sam

[dnoblett]

This has happened to a few members trying to visit the USA with their fiancee, girlfriend, or boyfriend, and get denied a visit visa for same reason failure to convince the visa officer that there is no intent to immigrate, in many cases they end up getting married overseas, and filing for a spouse immigrant visa.

 

You may be faced with this situation.

 

Here is what Canada has for Spouse visas.

 

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/sponsor/spouse.asp

[samcmac]

I'm actually an American citizen. Canada was where she wanted to go for school. Which we really thought would be the best solution for everyone.

[dnoblett]

I'm actually an American citizen. Canada was where she wanted to go for school. Which we really thought would be the best solution for everyone.

Yep, not exactly an easy situation.

 

Not sure if you got married and did the US CR-1 spouse visa, and then made another attempt at Canadian study visa, the snag would be the green-card requires residency in the states, the time away from the states attending school in Canada may result in the loss of the green-card.

 

Study B-2 topics here, there are several posts about generating evidence showing ties to China to convince the visa officer that would not attempt to stay after visiting.

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/tags/forums/B-2/

[Mick]

Do you have the option for pursuing another teaching job in China? That way you could stay with your girlfriend as you come up with a plan for the future. Getting married in China and applying for a spousal visa is a viable option, but of course, there is no guarantee. When I first went to China, I planned on staying one year. I met my wife my second or third week in China. She did not want to immigrate and I ended up staying for over five years. For what it's worth, living in China for an extended period of time will give you a deeper understanding of her culture and her character. Good luck as the future unfolds.

[samcmac]

Do you have the option for pursuing another teaching job in China? That way you could stay with your girlfriend as you come up with a plan for the future. Getting married in China and applying for a spousal visa is a viable option, but of course, there is no guarantee. When I first went to China, I planned on staying one year. I met my wife my second or third week in China. She did not want to immigrate and I ended up staying for over five years. For what it's worth, living in China for an extended period of time will give you a deeper understanding of her culture and her character. Good luck as the future unfolds.

 

Thanks for this. Teaching is I suppose an option, but there's an issue there, one I hate discussing because no one ever believes me. When i came to China, I did so for a couple reasons: My family has a history here (my great great uncle is Edgar Snow, who may be familiar to some of you), I needed to get out of New York where I was living because the jobs market was so bad and I couldn't make rent after being laid off, and because, after completing my TESOL certification I was told that I could teach in China even though... I didn't complete college. Now, many people at the time refuted this, and I didn't really know what to believe. But the guy who hired me, he assured me that not having a degree wouldn't be a problem. Of course, he was lying, and in fact doctored a fake degree to get me my work visa, something I swear I wasn't aware of until after I arrived. So that's what complicates me getting another teaching job here, and the fact that I left my last job on such poor terms doesn't help either. Personally, I'm more interested in continuing schooling anyway. I didn't intend to go to school for Chinese, at least not intensively, but that's what I'm looking at now, at a university in Wenzhou; and coupling that with some kind of slow process aimed at getting my girlfriend a spousal visa. But ideally, for her as much as me, finding some way to get her into either the U.S. or Canada for a year or so, working or in school, is still our goal. We're just not sure if we have to give up on that dream yet or not.

[dnoblett]

Another option, is the K-1, you can file the I-129F petition now providing evidence that you were in China with your girlfriend within the past 2 years. The only downside on the K-1 seems to be an unusually high denial rate lately, reported in other topics.

 

This would result in a fiancee visa, which would require marriage within 90 days of arrival, and adjustment of status, then again you run into the same problems with school in Canada.

 

Why not school in the USA?

[Dennis143]

So, you don't want to get married right now, but you still want to be together. You'd prefer to leave China for good, but only if she can get a visa to somewhere in the north American continent. She can't secure a visa, because she can't show ties to China. You want to continue school and your parents will continue to support that endeavor.

 

To be honest, without going the marriage visa route she's basically on her own to get a visa somehow.

 

I suggest she apply to different US Universities. If accepted and if her family is wealthy enough to pay the tuition, the university will file for the student visa on her behalf which seems to be seldom if ever denied.

 

Good luck.

[samcmac]

The issue with U.S. colleges is that she took the IELTS not the TOEFL.

[dnoblett]

The issue with U.S. colleges is that she took the IELTS not the TOEFL.

My wife came to the states on a K-1, she then enrolled in college for a few classes, colleges may require taking an ESL class for proficiency in English in order to take college level classes.

[Greg.D.]

I have no idea what the study visa is - the U.S. does not have the equivalent. Rather, there is a student visa, awarded only after a school has accepted her AND she can make a convincing financial support demonstration. If you are thinking grad school for her, a letter of financial support and tuition waiver from the school would substitute directly.

 

However, she will likely have difficulty being accepted into a program these days - schools tend to only accept students on recommendation as there has been so much fraud in student applications. If she was married to you ( ) she would be starting from a completely different vantage point and could eventually work her way into a school. You already made the point that you could not support either her K1 or spouse application on your own - only if you had support from someone else, since you've been working in China (a lot of people get tripped up here: they marry someone in China but have to quit their job to return to the US - which means no income in the visa process). So, you either recruit the family or start working. I guess it would interfere with your Toronto plans, though.

 

If she wants to take the TOEFL, I think it's offered somewhere in China about every 5 minutes - so she can schedule a test date and the TOEFL score will find its way to any program she applies to. Single Chinese women can get a B2 visa - my girlfriend has one now - if they meet the requirements. It's not stacked against them. It didn't work for you this time. But, I think the path is clear for a fiance or spouse visa, since those are declared (essentially) as immigrant visa's.

 

GRE would likely be required for most grad programs. If you followed the marriage path I proposed to you, as dnoblett says, once here, she can start with a few classes. I recommend this because good performance in an English language, western school will validate her Chinese transcripts, as these are often forged, too.

 

These bumps in the road for you two will help you test your commitment and learn to work through tough spots. You can do it!

Greg

Edited August 7, 2014 by Greg.D. (see edit history)

[Mick]

 

Do you have the option for pursuing another teaching job in China? That way you could stay with your girlfriend as you come up with a plan for the future. Getting married in China and applying for a spousal visa is a viable option, but of course, there is no guarantee. When I first went to China, I planned on staying one year. I met my wife my second or third week in China. She did not want to immigrate and I ended up staying for over five years. For what it's worth, living in China for an extended period of time will give you a deeper understanding of her culture and her character. Good luck as the future unfolds.

 

Thanks for this. Teaching is I suppose an option, but there's an issue there, one I hate discussing because no one ever believes me. When i came to China, I did so for a couple reasons: My family has a history here (my great great uncle is Edgar Snow, who may be familiar to some of you), I needed to get out of New York where I was living because the jobs market was so bad and I couldn't make rent after being laid off, and because, after completing my TESOL certification I was told that I could teach in China even though... I didn't complete college. Now, many people at the time refuted this, and I didn't really know what to believe. But the guy who hired me, he assured me that not having a degree wouldn't be a problem. Of course, he was lying, and in fact doctored a fake degree to get me my work visa, something I swear I wasn't aware of until after I arrived. So that's what complicates me getting another teaching job here, and the fact that I left my last job on such poor terms doesn't help either. Personally, I'm more interested in continuing schooling anyway. I didn't intend to go to school for Chinese, at least not intensively, but that's what I'm looking at now, at a university in Wenzhou; and coupling that with some kind of slow process aimed at getting my girlfriend a spousal visa. But ideally, for her as much as me, finding some way to get her into either the U.S. or Canada for a year or so, working or in school, is still our goal. We're just not sure if we have to give up on that dream yet or not.

 

 

I worked as a writer and journalist most of my career, so I am very familiar with Edgar Snow. He was one of the very first western writers to explore the Communist movement in China, years before they ever came to power. For many years, his "Red Star Over China" was considered a classic in the field. He was surely a very interesting man and quite an adventurer. He traveled widely in China in the 1930s and wrote extensively about his stay in China.

[Dennis143]

I have no idea what the study visa is - the U.S. does not have the equivalent. Rather, there is a student visa, awarded only after a school has accepted her AND she can make a convincing financial support demonstration. If you are thinking grad school for her, a letter of financial support and tuition waiver from the school would substitute directly.

 

However, she will likely have difficulty being accepted into a program these days - schools tend to only accept students on recommendation as there has been so much fraud in student applications. If she was married to you ( ) she would be starting from a completely different vantage point and could eventually work her way into a school.

Greg

I'm a bit confused with your statement.

 

Just from antecdotal experience, I see and know many Chinese students being accepted into both public and private universities on, what seem to me, rather slim acceptance criteria. From what I understood is that colleges and universities are actively seeking rich Chinese who can pay those high tuition costs in cash and in advance. Let's face it, money does talk.

 

Here's an article from the NYTimes (albeit a couple years old now, so don't know if things have changed much today and I'm too lazy to look any further. )

 

SEATTLE — This is the University of Washington’s new math: 18 percent of its freshmen come from abroad, most from China. Each pays tuition of $28,059, about three times as much as students from Washington State. And that, according to the dean of admissions, is how low-income Washingtonians — more than a quarter of the class — get a free ride.

With state financing slashed by more than half in the last three years, university officials decided to pull back on admissions offers to Washington residents, and increase them to students overseas...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/education/international-students-pay-top-dollar-at-us-colleges.html?pagewanted=all

Edited August 8, 2014 by Dennis143 (see edit history)

[msittig]

Maybe consider this plan:

 

1. Study in China for a couple years on an X1 visa, possibly leading up to a degree (you could tutor/write/shill/recruit on the side for tuition/living expenses). Too late this year, but next year you could apply for a CSC Chinese Government Scholarship; lots of info on chinese-forums.com.

2. During this time, live responsibly and develop you relationship with her parents, to the point where they trust you be a responsible partner to their daughter. Maybe save up and buy a cheap domestic car/get your driver's license; or rent a nice place off-campus and fix it up; or plan, pay for and take her/her parents on a couple vacations within China.

3. Ask her parents jointly for permission to go to the US, and take her on a fiancee visa -- make sure you've started the US job search before you begin applying for the visa, so that you have some solid leads or even an offer to show Guangzhou.

 

How does that sound?

[Greg.D.]

I'm a bit confused with your statement.

 

Just from antecdotal experience, I see and know many Chinese students being accepted into both public and private universities on, what seem to me, rather slim acceptance criteria. From ...

Right, I am talking strictly about graduate school. If she could pay her way (about $53K has to be deposited for each year of grad school here in Denver) she probably could have shown sufficient deposits in accounts in China to get the B2 visa. Grad school typically is paid for by the institution which needs warm bodies in the classes and labs. I assumed - could be wrong - that she and samcmac look for stipends as grad students - but maybe I am wrong.

 

You are right about colleges accepting students who have the money (and many whom have paid an agency to write their essays, etc for their app's). The path for grad students, though, has become more obstructed for various reasons.

 

Greg