US and China Naval Brush

[Thomas Promise]

A U.S. Navy guided missile cruiser took evasive action to avoid colliding with a Chinese warship in the South China Sea in what sources called a highly unusual and deliberate act by China, CNN has learned.

How to plan the spark for WW3.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/13/politics/us-china-confrontation/

[tsap seui]

STUPIDITY STUPIDITY STUPIDITY......I'm giving up on the world. I am sick and tired of the STUPIDITY....ours, there's everybodys!!!!!

 

As an old soldier I can understand that ship playing chicken with our ship. If the shoe was on the other foot and China had been playing world cop, pushing it's weight around all over the globe, pushing their form of government on others like the JW's push their religion on every other religion like it is the only working form of religion, or government in the world, then I reckon it would be one of our ships playing chicken with theirs.

 

This was stupid beyond belief. And it won't stop here. We send B-52's over their airspace with no call advising them of it, they play chicken with our ship...tit for tat....what's next? What's the next dumb assed chest bumper move gonna be??? No one will call it even and try and show any respect to the other side. No one wins this one. If we kill 290,000,000 Chinese we still lose this one. "Win" will not be a word that either side could use.

 

My favorite group of my youth with one of my very favorite guitar players....they got it wrong. I used to listen to this song and feel that yes, we could change the world, to hell with Chicago. Ain't nothin' gonna change. CSN were wrong.

 

 

Change the world? Get rid of all the politicians who can see or think beyond the ends of their soldier's weapons. The people are good, it's the rulers.

 

tsap seui

 

Get yer affairs in China taken care of boys.

[Thomas Promise]

The little guy is the one who bears the brunt of war. We are just pawns to be sacrificed in a war for more power and greed by the eilte. They have formented every major war since the American Revolution to gain more control under the disguise of good and freedom. They need a reason for us to slaughter and destroy our homes and lives and they will provide it. Gulf of Tonkin comes to mind. Pearl Harbor. The US KNEW the Japanese naval codes in 1940! Nearly 2 full years beore the Japanese attack. Assinate an Archduke in Serbia and all of Europe goes up in flames killing 10 million. Germany after the WW1 was broke and experienced hyper inflation. A Wallpaper Hanger comes out of nowhere to conquer Europe in 7 years of power. Only to be annialated because starting a 2 front war he could never win. It is a great chess game that we show too much enthusiasm to play in.

[warpedbored]

China's trying to intimidate the US and vice versa. The whole debacle is a very dangerous game that could start WW-3. I don't think China could win this one. It they think America has no stomach for war they will find themselves badly mistaken if they continue their aggressive behavior.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

China's trying to intimidate the US and vice versa. The whole debacle is a very dangerous game that could start WW-3. I don't think China could win this one. It they think America has no stomach for war they will find themselves badly mistaken if they continue their aggressive behavior.

 

As an ex-swabbie (sorry Tsap) I can tell you that most all US Navy warships have almost daily encounters with foreign ships. It's not televised or often reported, but crews on both ships use it to test their readiness. I don't think any of this will amount to much. China continues to engage in face-saving actions on the open sea. They should pay more attention to Sun Tzu's "The Art of War." A great read for those who haven't looked at it.

 

http://suntzusaid.com/

[tsap seui]

Jesse, when I first read the story about our ship having to perform it's emergency stopping maneuver I laughed out loud and said the words, "TOUCHE, MF, TOUCHE". My wife came into the room to see who I was talking to....LOL

 

I fully agree, and well understand the game played on and under the sea and up in the air. Heck, we've had more than one sub limp into dry dock and the Soviets have a couple of "run silents" laying on the bottom from not "running deep" enough in the age old bump and grind on the high seas. And the air dales have tons of stories and broken bits to talk about too.

 

We became masters of chicken playing and it never started any wars, even when the "expendables" we call our "professional" fighting forces lost their lives in the game.

 

the trouble is, we are old hands at the game. The Chinese are rookies. Although, my hat is off to that Chinese commander who forced that poor ship of ours to slam on his brakes. Now that, was funny in my book. And even funnier that CNN acted like "look at what those awful Chinese did to our Navy boys and girls". As a veteran of those sorta games, wouldn't you agree it was funny? I mean, sometimes you get to wag your dick at the other side as you pass them by, and sometimes you get a facefull of sea spray. It's all a game.

 

And I ask the, "open" question....Why did the Chinese do that? Who started this current round of nonsense? My personal answer is UNCLE SAM started it when he sent 2 Buff's over the airspace above the stones jutting out of the sea, and never made the radio call the Chinese asked for. Yes, our planes fly over there all the time, but how hard would it have been for a pilot to make the simple call? Looks to me like tit for tat. We want to thump our chest, well, can't the Chinese thump theirs too? Let's just hope they both take it as two boys in a pecker checker contest in the sandbox and now that the ball is back in our court that we don't do anything to escalate it further. The more intelligent fella stands back and lets the other fella bask in his faux sense of face. Not hard to do unless your ignorant arrogance clouds your own intelligence.

 

Oh, I've got the obligatory copy of Sun Tzu's book on the art of war. Heck, I even used to spout a verse or two from it in various discussions like I was a cool hip scholar (I'm not and never was). If I'm not mistaken all of our uppity muckity military leaders were required to read that book in the past. Doesn't look to me like anyone paid any attention to it. Does it look like that to anyone else? NIce to have sitting on your coffee table for guests to see how smart you are, and it is full of wisdom....that nobody ever uses. Probably one of the most quoted books around. In no way would I ever disparage that book. It's just another of the things I have given up on and it now lays hidden deep in the bowels of my personal library as I no longer waste the oxygen it takes to quote from it. LOL

 

No, it looks to me like our leaders, and theirs, still subscribe to the old worn out book on war called "What, Me Worry?...I've always got the big red button" written by that tow headed red headed freckle faced guy with the goofy grin on his face named Alfred E. Neuman.

 

Anybody think Sun Tzu's wisdom was used in Iraq, or is being used in Afghanistan?

 

I don't seriously think we are going into WWIII. Neither side will win with closed relationships and trading resulting from combating each other. I do hope our people are talking to their people during all of this....although it does scare me that some lying conniving imbecile like John Kerry is our spokesman. Could we have a worse spokesman? Oh yeah, we could, they got rid of her so she can run for higher office. Where have all the real thinkers, with honesty and clear thinking gone....long time passing, the answer my friend, it's blowin' in the wind.

 

Something else about all of this is really bothering me. Thomas Promise touches on it in his post above. This professional soldier fighting our wars has proven itself to be a failure, except to the ones getting rich from it and the leaders who no longer need full support from the country, even the senate to jump into little wars whenever they want to. Oh we clap our soldiers on the back, praise them, and wish them well in the airports...but we have opened ourselves up to a real criminal mess with how they are being used and relied upon now. I've met young men and women who have served 5 and 6 or more tours in our stupid wars. It is criminal. A few carrying the weight of all. And they don't even cook their own food or clean their own dishes now. Everything is subbed out for high prices. THERE IS BIG MONEY TO BE MADE OFF THE BACKS OF OUR TROOPS. The elite know it and they use it to line their pockets. We have suits in Washington that are quick on the trigger and who more and more no longer need the support of the "people" or even other lawmakers behind them now.

 

We have tried the "professional" soldier game and it is leading us down a bad path. Bad for everyone but the ones lining their pockets. The citizen/soldier who won our independence and important events like WWII has become a thing of the past. And, now, only a few call the shots. It no longer is America calling the shots.

 

Professional soldiers make a helluva strong fighting machine. A strong fighting machine that is too easily manipulated by a few who think they know what the rest of us need. If America wants to fight wars then bring back citizen/soldiers. Let every American have a stake, and a say, in what is happening. Not just a few families who are doing the bidding of just a few who are making money off their efforts. Let "all" of America in on both the direction, and the dirty work of America. See how many wars we get into then.

 

The elite have proven once again what they are all about. Criminal money grubbers who use their "professional" soldiers to do their dirty work.

 

Anyone wanting to read two REAL books about America and it's soldiers should read...

 

Kiss the Boys Goodbye by Monika Jensen-Stevenson and William Stevenson. Take a look at how the elite money grubbers left so many of our POW/MIA's in Vietnam (way more than the token few who got to come home). Why did our leaders leave them there? Why did they take a Marine like Richard Garvey (who escaped on his own) and label him a traitor and deny and bury his words of the many others he saw in captivity, many years after we pulled out and our leaders patted each other on their backs when the token few POW's came home? The truth of what we were doing in Vietnam in the "secret war" and the reason our innocent POW/MIA's got left behind was too criminally incriminating to be allowed out to the public. Too many dirty secrets for the powers to be to own up to.

 

Breach of Trust by Andrew J. Bacevich. A Vietnam veteran who now is a college professor and a scholar. He shows the shameful truth of how our "professional" soldiers are being used.

 

Both of those books are sickening and disgusting to the maximum. They will piss you off and ruin your day as you read the sad truth.. While none of us can stop the elite from their filthy money sucking games, you can at least see why we don't ride white horses and why God is truly NOT on our side. We are no better (even worse in many respects) than those we point our crooked fingers at and call the bad guys. America is NOT the democracy that our forefathers so wisely foresaw and tried to set up so long ago. As I learned in my misspent, absolute and voluntary, patriot lesson in Vietnam....when you point your finger at another, you will always have 3 fingers pointing right back at yourself.

 

We American's, and the Chinese, etc etc are good people. It's the arrogant misuse of the power of our leaders that is bad.

 

I feel eternally sorry for the men... and their families who lost loved ones listed as MIA/POW. They were purposely left behind and their families have been lied to even worse than any of us ever dreamed possible.

 

And to the young "professional" warriors of today. Next time I see one of you in the airport....just after I tell you how proud I am of you, silently and inside, I will mourn for how sorry I am that you are tragically being used as a pawn of the elite.

 

We need our country back.

 

I'm not going to sit or run around angry with the last years of my life. I can not change anything of the past, or direct the future as it is totally out of hand. I prefer to laugh and live with the gifts I have. Maybe I will go stand on stage with some elites and hand sign for the deaf. Who knows, I may luck out and paint them a more honest picture than the lies the elite are trying to feed them.

 

If the chest bumping and posturing over those stones in the water leads to some serious fightin'....stay away from mushrooms.

 

 

tsap seui

 

The opinions of the asshole who wrote this blather should have no impact on yore life.

Edited December 14, 2013 by tsap seui (see edit history)

[amberjack1234]

I agree with about 90 % of what Ronny has written but he left out the part where China just moved the property lines over WHERE the US has been flying and moving back and forth with our ships since WWII.

 

Ronny, suppose your neighbor where you just built your apartments was to move his property line over and take in you apartments because he says that his family owned them 300 years ago. I don't think that you would take kindly to that. I expect the shit would hit the fan. Now the rest of what you are saying I agree 100% with.

 

Larry

[tsap seui]

Larry, in a case like that I'd send in my Chinese property manager and care taker to kick their ass into next week.

 

I hear what you say Larry. Yes, they extended their line out to cover those rocks so they can take the oil. It's a dodgy subject over who owns those rocks. As bad as we have treated China over the years I just don't see what harm a simple call from a pilot would have been to give them the faux face they desperately seek. We could gain so much more good down the road with the Chinese with a lil' intelligent backpedaling now on this issue. But, we need our oil cake and to be able to eat it too. Sun Tzu says a bit about the give and take to get what you want, but his book's wisdom is never taken literally, just a good book to display on your coffee table. Wisdom read, and never used. It's like an intricate chest game. One that we play with bulky snow mittens or heavy welders gloves...and with chest thumping aircraft carriers. One day we'll wake up and see that we have pissed off the rest of the entire world with our police actions "humanitarian" good deeds. Ah, we'll leave it to the next generation to figure out.

 

tsap seui

[amberjack1234]

You're right about that Ronny. I do wish that the US and China would get closer together like the US and Russia in the past although there are still disagreements between the two at least they are trying and it is working pretty much. What worries me is that secretly in the background China and Russia ARE mending their differences. Where would we be if Russia and China were to mend their differences from the past and were to go whole hog in together? The only reason that China is sticking with the us is all the crap that we buy from them and Russia can't match that.

 

Larry

[tsap seui]

You nailed it Larry. What the F happens when everybody in the world gets tired of us stomping around the world with our aircraft carrier and M-16 diplomacy. How hard would it have been to make a radio call and give the CHinese a touch of face instead of shunning them at every opportunity, smearing their face in the mud, trying to block them out of trade agreements, bringing up that damned Dali Lama at every opportunity, the list goes on. Hell, they are people too. A little charm would go a long way to give us some face in this old world, and an actual opening where the Chinese leaders may take the earplugs out and actually hear something we say. Our way isn't the only way in the world. Talking down to others isn't the way to win their hearts and minds. It's about way past time our leaders tried showing a little class instead of ass.

 

Idle talk on my part buddy, it ain't ever gonna happen. The elite need to suck some more money, we're stuck on a one way rail. I just hope our side doesn't up the ante, just dries the seawater outta their faces and call it even.

[danb]

The little guy is the one who bears the brunt of war. We are just pawns to be sacrificed in a war for more power and greed by the eilte. They have formented every major war since the American Revolution to gain more control under the disguise of good and freedom. They need a reason for us to slaughter and destroy our homes and lives and they will provide it. Gulf of Tonkin comes to mind. Pearl Harbor. The US KNEW the Japanese naval codes in 1940! Nearly 2 full years beore the Japanese attack. Assinate an Archduke in Serbia and all of Europe goes up in flames killing 10 million. Germany after the WW1 was broke and experienced hyper inflation. A Wallpaper Hanger comes out of nowhere to conquer Europe in 7 years of power. Only to be annialated because starting a 2 front war he could never win. It is a great chess game that we show too much enthusiasm to play in.

I agree with you,Thomas. It is the little guy,( the common guy, just pawns), who will loss this game they are playing. A game that ultimately would hurt so many. Does any one else remember the incident about 15 years ago where planes decided to play tag somewhere over the ocean near Sanya? Who won that one?

 

I think a peaceful solution needs to found. Danb

[warpedbored]

China want's to replace the US as the world's preeminent super power. Both economically and militarily. The US has held that position for a long time and will not easily give it up.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

China want's to replace the US as the world's preeminent super power. Both economically and militarily. The US has held that position for a long time and will not easily give it up.

 

They have always considered themselves to be the center of the universe. The US still has more nukes and a more sophisticated method of delivering them. The rest of the world will never accept China for anything other than the money they pay for imported products. China has succeeded in turning their neighbors against them by laying claims to territory: Indonesia, Philippines, Japan, Thailand, Taiwan. I don't think China has any plans to ever clean their environment so their people can have a better life. That mission will be their undoing.

[danb]

GDE, I hope you are wrong when you say: " The rest of the world will never accept China for anything other than the money they pay for imported products......" I have greater hope for the new China. But then again some of the signals we are getting are disappointing. Deng Xiao Ping said that: "Making money is glorious." I wonder what he had envisioned the Chinese would do with it. Hopefully a better country for her people and the world. I wonder if China actually has a mission statement. Is it in one of their 5 or 10 year plans or was it discussed/decided on at the 3rd Plenum. Danb

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

GDE, I hope you are wrong when you say: " The rest of the world will never accept China for anything other than the money they pay for imported products......" I have greater hope for the new China. But then again some of the signals we are getting are disappointing. Deng Xiao Ping said that: "Making money is glorious." I wonder what he had envisioned the Chinese would do with it. Hopefully a better country for her people and the world. I wonder if China actually has a mission statement. Is it in one of their 5 or 10 year plans or was it discussed/decided on at the 3rd Plenum. Danb

 

Dan, my feelings about China have changed these past several years from living here. I see a good people of the country who want a better life, but I also see a country shrouded in mystery and blind acceptance. As long as the fat cats in Beijing are in charge, then the local bureaucrat network will continue with corruption. There is no rule of law in China. Yes, they have laws, but those laws are applied arbitrarily according to who you know and who you are. Being rich in China means everything. If you have a government ID then the red-carpet will be rolled out, the fine cigarettes passed, and the most expensive liquor and hookers provided. They actively block the truth, and reward those disagree with long jail sentences, or worse they simply disappear.

 

The tall buildings continue to rise, and more people are able to buy cars and houses. But, it's also very deceptive. Intermixed in all of this are the extreme poor who struggle to live every day. It's these poor who comprise the majority of China's population. Then, there is this "I'm better than the poor man attitude because I have a car." It's manifested by driving too fast and being unwilling to stop for anyone or anything. Or the prevailing attitude of making a mess of their environment because it's the job of the street cleaners and maids to pick it up.

 

I took a job here in 2008 because I believed in China. It was my experience during that time that shaped my current view. I ruptured my Achilles tendon during a work event in 2011, and then began to have first hand experience with the horrific conditions of the Chinese medical system. The people want to change things, but have no power whatsoever to get things done.

 

I cannot envision China being more than an economic eyesore on planet earth until the CCP relinquishes power to the people of China, and the corrupt officials are stripped of their status and money and forced to clean the beggars feet.

Edited December 16, 2013 by GuangDongExpat (see edit history)